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Actually I did this on almost every patient I attatched the monitor too until we got the chest leads ordered in. Complicated answer but here it goes. When you interpret rythm in lead II, the monitor filters out what it sees as artifact (some). When you push the 12 lead button, the filters shut down and you get a clear picture in "Diagnostic mode". So, in essence, yes the 6 lead would be diagnostic. But: You do not have the "whole picture". so really.... it should not be relied on. To truly diagnose STEMI, all leads should be analysed. Pretty hard to see recprocal changes when your missing 2/3rds the 12 lead. BUTT: In a situation such as a cable failure, you could move your LL (red) lead into the spot of V1 and print. This will now make lead II become MCL1. Now move it to the position of V2, it now becomes MCL2.... etc etc. As long as you print each of these positions with the 12 lead button and not the standard "Print" button, you will, eventually have a diagnostic mode ECG from just the limb leads. Not very practical I know, but that was not the question. Change the rule to "ST elevation seen when the print button is pushed is non diagnostic"

If you are attaching leads anyway, why not just do the 12? Seems kind of pointless to do an EKG to see if you should do it the right way. There are plenty of things you can do with equipment that it wasn't originally designed for. Personally, I think it is a waste of time to mess around with a 6 lead and moving leads around just to get 12. There is a way of moving leads around on the old monitors where you only had 3 leads to move all the leads around to get a 12 lead reading. The only way I can see this being a benefit, is if you DON'T have a 12 lead monitor. As for it being possible, yes, it is. It is a pain in the foot though.

Well just me but with the availability of doing bedside Troponin just as in ER, WHY are we not using this very simple and valuable diagnostic tool ? Do MDs start loading with thromolytics before blood work comes back when angio is 250 kms away ? Time=Muscle. So: Questions 1: In with LBBB and RBBB are ECGs giving you the entire picture, could one observe ST elevation without infarct? 2: Can Sask EMT/PCP draw a blood sample from IV start line ? I even think Sask has a vendor there, a great place to start a government funded EMS study EH? http://www.tntdiagnostics.com/ cheers

Outside of sheer negligence or stupidity, it is rare for civil litigation to reach a courtroom. Texas got smart a few years ago and put a cap on medical litigation. Very few go directly for the EMT or his / her company as the lawyers realize that's not where the money is. Hospital systems and physician groups on the other hand...............

Looks like we have ourselves a self proclaimed "quality control" officer. Liking or disliking or whether or not one thinks a post has "quality" or not, is nothing more than a matter of opinion. You have yours, I have mine, nobody is really the same etc etc. Some obviously have a hard time trying to handle that.

can a person become a emt if the crime happened over 20 yrs ago

I have noticed that the concern over lawsuits frequently creeps into many categories of questions; whether or not you will do a certain procedure, the problem with protocols or lack of protocols, when to use medical control, or how you document to protect yourself. Then I asked myself, "Crotchity, is this lawsuit fear a founded fear ?" I got to thinking about it, and I could not recall one person that I worked with who had ever been sued over patient care issues. I know some that were sued, but all of those were over vehicle accidents, not patient care issues. So how real is this boogey-man ? Do you know someone personally that has been sued ? If so, how many ?

With the 4 limb leads you can see 6 views of the heart. Only way beneficial is if maybe you lost your 12 lead cable.

Ya seems odd. If anything I do more 12 leads then some people I work with. The 12 or 15 lead is often my peace of mind to ensure I'm not seeing an atypical presentation MI. Especially with some of the populations I run into. (It's getting to the point that I'm willing to bet partners that a 40-50y/o M of Indian/Pakistani descent c/o abdo discomfort and general malaise is having an AMI.)

I agree...what is the point, trying to save time or electrodes? If you are doing it to determine if the 12 lead needs to get done, then just do it anyhow.

I'm not saying I'm interesting, but I am unusual in the field. I was born in Finland, immigrated with my family to Canada and lived there the first 40 years of my life. English is my second language, which I learned at age 7. Learned French in Canada. Grew up in an abusive family and was on the streets at 15. Never graduated high school. First career was pastry chef. Owned a bakery, and after selling it, worked as a pastry chef in hotel kitchens. On the side, started messing with computers cause I thought they were cool. Wound up with my own consulting firm, managed a client base of 140, did it for almost 20 years. Picked up an accounting degree along the way. Hated it for the last 10 years, but was making so much money (and spending it all too) it was hard to walk away from. Married an American, who I met online. Worked as Manager of Information Systems for the largest residential treatment center for abused and neglected kids in the state. Retired from the computer racket and hung out for a couple of years. Started martial arts. Decided I wanted to be a paramedic. Turned 50 during the last semester of paramedic school. (caught a baby that day too!) Got a 911 medic job 2000 miles away and moved to the desert. Learning some Spanish as I go. Got a ton of life experiences (3rd marriage - this ones going good, 4 kids, 3 grandkids) and am LOVING my job.

CPAP: Thats very interesting so what flavor machine and what are the protocols (as in pre set levels ?) orientation hours, are you just approved or are there any on the trucks already ? And do you have flow diverters with your BVM and adjustable PEEP gauges any DAR filters for suspected infectious disease ? Tis the season .... This EMT/EMTI/PCP thing about NTG and the gospel according to; Must have 12 lead can anyone present studies on frequency of adverse effects frequency with RVI ? cheers

#$%&. Oops. My mistake. I honestly thought you were referring to the part about the impression, and I did not reread the part about the intent. However, measuring someone's intent can be subject to an individual's viewpoint, but, it seems obvious to most people that the intent is to promote a high standard. That being said, your sure got me on that one point, now how about the rest of my points and posts? Bold point # 1 Do you feel the same way about the tone of Dustdevil's (the old Dust, that is) posts? How about AK's? Ridryder's? From what I know of the first two and remember from the third, they were all honestly and blunt in what they say, many times echoing what each other posts, including Vent's. Bold point # 2 I agree that these probably should not be EMS calls. The fact is that we do respond to those calls and when doing such, we should provide a basic service of trying to provide the patients with resources to rectifying their situation. If someone is calling because they cannot care for themselves, we should be alerted that this small issue may be part of a bigger issue that needs addressed. If I receive a call through lifeline for sour milk, can't find their glasses, or the like, one of the first things going through my head is 'will this person be able to care from themselves if the situation is worse?' In essence, we are again a part of a link/chain/continuum of health care that is going to initially have to investigate the situation and direct the issues to the professionals who need to handle the situation. Herbie, disagreeing with somebody and directing personal attacks at them are different things. I honestly would not take someone's comments so personally. This, for the most part, is an anonymous forum, and as such I do not have anything to honestly prove to anyone, except that I can participate and grow with the rest of the posters. Ventmedic would not know me if I walked up to her on the street and slapped her. I do not expect her to know me any better on this website. There are a few folks I have met from this site, whom I would feel insulted if they attacked me as a person having known me, but that only includes a select few. But the people I have met have questioned my assumptions and helped me with many issues, but have been kind enough to leave out the personal attacks on character. One of the greatest things about this site is the feedback one can get on any slew of subjects. The feedback can be invaluable to help oneself question their practices and thoughts on matters. We get better together when we engage in beneficial argument that questions our ideas, assumptions, and presents facts. When Ventmedic says something along the line of 'The Paramedic does not have the education to....', it is not arrogance speaking, it is not a personal attack, but rather in a general sense, the truth. As others have said before, EMTCity has become relaxed in the past years to the point where all kinds of garbage passes by on the board, without being questioned. Many remember the olden days and wish to see it again, so expect for your posts to be scrutinized. Herbie, we will not be any better as a group if persons such as your self do not actively question the assumptions of others. As I said before, when someone does not post something you care for, bring it to their attention in a logical format and make them rethink their position so they can reply to you and make you rethink your position. I hope you stick with us, we can always benefit from various viewpoints. We can leave the drama for the chat room.

You know Herbie, I appreciate the remarks in your last post. Speaking personally, when someone offends or enrages me, its almost inevitably because I have a secret fear that what they say is true. It is truly frustrating to be an idealist in this field. I've only been running for 13 months, (although I have over 1200 calls) and I am still idealistic. I can only imagine what all the years of experience and all the BS has done to you. Not withstanding, I do what I can, and what we can do is dictated by the volume and type of calls we run. I think the important thing is the mindset. Someone who is posted for 12 hours in a car running 1 call per hour is going to be intolerant of what they consider BS calls. The problem is that the issue is displaced onto the patient as opposed to a system that thinks 12 calls/12 hours is acceptable delivery of health care. I personally work 48 hour shifts, and standup 48s (where we never get to bed) are not uncommon. I spend the first day of my 4 day beached on a couch recovering. I think what enrages Vent is the simple minded idiots who think that the system is fine if only those BS patients would go away. You are obviously not one of them, but lets face it, your responses to her were pretty obnoxious. I understand that you were defensive. I suggest you ask yourself why. Respectfully Kaisu

Guys... Gupta here seems to exhibit the same annoying sentence structure of our favorite "kevbutnobacon" supposed Englishman. His syntax and stereotypical writing is not fooling me... and he has been banned. I would imagine that he was exposed at the admin level. Thanks for patrolling the waters Admin.

You mean stop signs aren't just a really stringent "yield?" Followup question, since I'm licensed to drive by the State of California, does that also grant me the privilege of using "California Stops?"

I first saw this posta while ago and didnt really keep it on my radar and then saw this persons little blab on the front page wondering why people here are so rude to a new commer. This topic went so wonky I have to wonder why it went to sex offenders, religion and that people here couldn't actually understand that the guy or girl was asking if someone could become an emt after a crime that happened 20 years ago, and some of the most respected people on this site participated in the comments. I dont understand why 3 people did the -3 on this post, if we are going to use a rating system here then maybe we should be doing it on the people that are really rude and butt holes in their responses not the people that are just asking a simple question, but again there is the bad grammar. I come here alot and I enjoy reading alot of the posts and comments here and have alot of respect for those that take the time to share information that may make my career or life alittle easier and find it disturbing that people here made some one that has come here feel so unwelcome. Save lives maybe a troll or what ever else you can be called on this site but so could anyone of us. Please remember we maybe making people not come to our community because of this type activity.

ex-offender? or sex-offender? Offender of what and to what degree? Have you been incarcerated for the past twenty years?

I will put up with a certain amount of BS. When I reach my limit, I respond in the same manner I am addressed. As for obnoxious- "you ain't seen nothin yet". Believe it or not, I am being restrained. Not worth getting worked up about this. Childish? Maybe, but I never claimed to have the patience of Jobe. The system is NOT fine, but BS patients are not the problem- the system is. The only way someone can take advantage of a situation is if they are allowed to do it. The rules are made to protect a patient, but in doing so, loopholes remain, and are exploited by some. That's life, but I won't pretend to like it, nor will I idly take abuse when I comment on it. I've been in this business for a long time- in multiple capacities- management, supervisory, and street work. I teach, I attend classes for personal enrichment as well as improving my knowledge and skills. You need to find your niche and exert your time, energy, and skills in a way most appropriate for you and your circumstances, which may be quite different than mine, or someone else's. "Right" can also be a very subjective thing. Keep the idealism as long as you can, Kaisu. I hope your situation- call volume, work environment, personal and professional life, and mother nature allow you to remain that way. It's not easy to do.

OMG! I generally defer from reading topics that do not appeal to me when it gets to the topic itself. In this case, "Lifeline" is something that has no meaning to me since we do not have anything similar to it where I am from. Then I started "hearing" the chatter about this topic in the chat rooms and decided to read it. In my honest opinion it was a complete waste of time. The first few posts actually had something to do with the original posting then it just turned into the usual "I am this" and "You are that" posting. It always seems to be the same people that hi jack threads and turn into their own little personal kingdom and domain. Why is it so hard to stick to the original posting? Why does someone always have to start questioning the others methods, professionalism, ethics, training or ideas on this job? When will you people actually start realising that we are in the same business, however we do not work according to the same protocols nor do we work according to the same set of rules. Freaking hell, this is supposed to be a site for adults and professionals to discuss issues relevant to the job.

It was a bland question that provoked broad responses. The initial post merely stated "crime", it didn't state what type of crime. If the original question was actually specific to begin with, the replies might also have been specific. Instead, the "topic" if you will, was covered with a plethora of differentials. People started giving examples of what they say are crimes, and their thoughts on those crimes. So if we pretended the original question was a patient, they would have a chief complaint of "dizzy". Figure it out ... ... WAY off topic, but before someone criticizes bad grammar, they should take a look at their own.