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has anyone caught the new Fox reality show the Academy about OCFA, wow those guys are tough and I hear they make some great cash too, we should all strive to be like them, I mean look at the dicipline they and commitment they go through, I wish amr was like that.

Again, early morning usually means there is downtime- even in a busy system. Yes, you can still get a call 5 minutes after you walk in, and in that case, you need to hope everything is OK and in proper working order until you can verify that for yourself. What else can you do? As for paperwork, many times members have a checklist to complete for a particular compartment, area, or set of tools. One guy needs to start the saws, and Hurst tools. Another verifies fittings That list is then forwarded to an officer to complete a master check out form. The driver needs to verify fuel in apparatus and tools, fluid levels, tank levels, emergency lights/siren, etc. Individual members need to sign and be accountable for their own equipment like SCBA's. It's a team effort. Each person needs to rely on the other that they have properly executed whatever their responsibilities are for that day. As for serious maintenance issues, well, the apparatus would be out of service until those problems were fixed, wouldn't it? There are plenty of things that occur in public safety simply because of tradition and there is no good rationale for doing it. Teasing, titles like probie or candidate, the expectation that the new guy is first to do menial labor or unpleasant tasks, and the last to finish. Certain informal rules like respecting veterans favorite seats at the dinner table, etc all can happen. As for lack of sleep- if you come in at the same time every day and are relieved at the same time, you don't work any longer than the next guy. This lack of sleep is part of the job. You can't decide that you are too tired to take in a fire or medical call at 3AM. You can literally be up for 24 hours with no rest. Done it countless times in my career, as have many folks in this business. Is it optimal? Of course not, but if someone cannot handle this schedule, they need to find a new career, a place that does not work 24 hour shifts, or a locale that is simply not very busy. Will the 24 hour schedule be disregarded, as the residency schedule was changed? Maybe, but the logistics of changing an entire fire crew 2-3x's a day could be a logistical nightmare in a busy system, not to mention you would need to hire more personnel. Not an easy solution, especially in these times.

I would say that showing up early because someone else wants the job is only a small part of the reason. It's also a matter of pride and practicality. You already made through training, now you need to show your bosses and coworkers you are up to the challenge. You need to PROVE yourself to be a productive member of a team. I don't care what anyone tells me about the condition of the apparatus, any potential issues with supplies, maintenance issues, etc, I check everything out. It's not a matter of not trusting what someone tells me, it's a matter of accountability. As soon as you relieve the prior crew and start work, YOU are responsible for that apparatus, and anything the off going crew misses or forgets to tell you is still YOUR responsibility. If you find a discrepancy, then yes, the onus is on your to address it with the previous shift, and/or rectify the problem yourself. If something is missed, YOU are the one who will need to be accountable for it, and if you do not check for yourself, it will become YOUR problem. As for paper work, there is plenty to do when your arrive. Attendance records, documentation of the apparatus and supplies, citing any personnel problems, training schedules, maintenance logs, citing members on vacation, ill, traded tours of duty, ensuring equipment is functional, batteries charged, SCBA's are in working order, saws start up and are fueled- tons of things to do. Once you walk in the door, you may get a call immediately, and the sooner you know that everthing is OK, the sooner you are ready to work. Circadian rhythms? This is the wrong business to be in if you are concerned about your sleep cycles- especially in a busy system. I realize there is a wide variety in the types of services people work for- busy urban systems, slower rural areas, etc. If call volume is low, you may be drilling all day, cleaning/polishing equipment, studying, etc, or you may only have time for a quick check out and you are busy all shift long. Typically, even in a busy system, early AM is slower, and is the only time you would be able to do a good inventory, so it only makes sense to get there early to accomplish your responsibilities. Preparing for drills- or a call- means that you better be damn sure your equipment is ready when you need it. What if someone puts a piece of equipment back in the wrong place? What if they were cleaning it, servicing it, or training with it and they forget to put it back on the apparatus? It happens, and in the middle of a fire or EMS run is NOT the time to find out. How would you know everything is OK unless you do a proper check of these items? The first thing you do is go over the most important items- the ones that you cannot do without. SCBA's, masks, saws, Thermal imaging cameras, monitors, vital medications, O2 levels, ensuring the main ladder is operational, ensuring the engine is able to pump, the booster tank is filled, etc- whatever your particular role is, you ensure you can function properly in that role. Maybe a new piece of equipment or a new model was issued? You had better be familiar with it's operation. What if you are detailed to a different apparatus than usual, or have a different job responsibility for the day? Your team/partner/public depends on you to be ready and that means knowing you have what you need and it is present and in proper working order. The rest of the details and a more comprehensive inventory comes later, but a 5 minute check out? No way. Not if you are serious about your job.

You're looking at it backwards. The I/99 isn't the 'new paramedic level,' however EMTs who currently are I/99s are going to be transitioned to being paramedics, and thus they (the providers themselves, not the level) will be 'new paramedics.'

Key phrase..."right of pasage." Dont residents work extreme hours to learn and prove themselves during there training? Don't white collar/college educated peoe go through years of tough education for a good job?

@ hours if pretty common , and if your a "probie" 2 hours is very common, it's mostly tradition, and for 100k plus a year and Eerybody wants your job you better believe people show up and keep to a high stadard, just like these guys in the show they know as soon as their out of the academy they are going to start making some real $$$$$.

Considering that my quote was made in direct response to someone claiming that a valid reason to expect people to show up 2 hours early is because other people want to do it, your refute misses the mark. Let's see here. Checking out the apparatuses, supplies, restocking (which should really be done by the off going crew to begin with. How about we target the people who are failing in their duties to keep their units properly stocked unless other, official, means are provided (like vehicle service techs for units that post all day)?), and paperwork (why are you doing paperwork first thing in the morning to begin with that isn't related to restocking?) are all things that can easily be accomplished in the course of the normal events of the day. You're just as likely to be interrupted with a call 5 minutes before an hour as 5 minutes after. Preparing for drills? Ok, I can see that, but does it really take everyone showing up 2 hours early to accomplish that? Additionally, showing up at 5 (2 hours early) means getting up in the 3-4am range. Nice way to start screwing with people's circadian rhythm for no better reason than because someone want's to watch People's Court instead of doing their work (like, say, cleaning their unit). Considering that emergency services are already a 24 hour a day, 7 day a week service with ample opportunity to screw with natural cycles and keep people from getting a proper amount and quality of sleep, why make it worse so someone can watch soap operas?

Most fire departments I suspect have the same tradition of arriving early for whatever reason. On the EMS side its typically 30min to allow crews time to come home and swap, and prevent the offgoing crew getting a late run. Its much different then anyother job. If you really "love" your job you want to go into work and don't think of it as comming in early.

In terms of preparations, med school and the fire department or EMS are apples and Buicks. Med school is an individual effort(except for labs) Your results arise directly from your efforts and are not dependent on anyone else. Your preparation/study time can also happen nearly anywhere- at home the prior night, at the library, that AM while eating breakfast, on a train to school,- whenever. When you arrive at the firehouse or EMS station, you need to check out your apparatus, your supplies, clean, restock PRN, do any required paperwork, prepare for any drills, receive a report from the crew you are relieving, check out your SCBA, etc. Fire or EMS, you need to work as a team, and that team is only as effective as it's weakest link. As with the military, you need to understand you are part of a bigger picture and when training, the instructors instill that team approach- especially with FSR- your life depends on how well you work together as a team. Anyone who has dealt with a problem child in their station understands how disruptive such a person can be to the unit as a whole. Resentment, anger, mistrust- not good things to have for a team to be effective.

Most fire departments I suspect have the same tradition of arriving early for whatever reason. On the EMS side its typically 30min to allow crews time to come home and swap, and prevent the offgoing crew getting a late run. Its much different then anyother job. If you really "love" your job you want to go into work and don't think of it as comming in early.

I respectfully have to say I think you misread my post. I believe this was my exact statement "You need to be in as good if not better shape for EMS as the demands are on a regular and consistent basis, not occasional like in the fire service." Meaning you are going to be exposed to the same high level of stresses on a regular basis (multiple times a day) as opposed to occasionally as in a fire where you work very hard no doubt and alot of stress is placed on that time, but even in busy fire hall's it is not usually multiple times a day every day. Think of it in these terms - EMS is more a repetitive stress job - the injuries you'll likely see are from the same stresses over and over wearing on the body. Biggest complaint in EMS that ends careers besides burnout - back injuries and it's from frequent lifting, turning, etc. That eventually causes significant wear and tear on the body and repetitive injuries much similar to those experienced by those who do factory work, etc. It's still going to happen to some degree, but if properly conditioned, it's going to be significantly reduced prolonging your career. Fire however, is more likely to be a traumatic injury - also due to deconditioned body, but more from the fact your body wasn't adequately prepared initially for the job rather than daily wear and tear. This I suspect is the largest reason that MI's are a huge cause of death within the fire service. If you look at it in that aspect, no one is harder than the other, but the effects it has on the body differ in the injury causes. I have worked both urban and rural fire and ems so I think I can make a fair comparison. As far as the demands placed on EMS - it really varies where you work. Some rural places deal with a different situation and have to pack people out for long distances (hunters, hikers, etc in wooded areas). Some urban people are frequently packing people down multiple flights of stairs because the building is so old it doesn't have an elevator. Each says their job is hard, make them switch places and they'll respect the other side. It's just a different game whatever area you are and you have to condition your body to the needs of the job you perform and the area you serve. That's the ideal way we prevent injuries, not sitting here debating who's job is harder, better, or more dangerous.

ya I've been watching that show from the start when it started as the LA county Sherriff.. Glad they switched over to fire.

Not bad $$, but the acdemy guys in the OCFA I think make 90k a year without OT.

Trust me-there are PLENTY where I work. There are physical fitness standards to get the job, but they only become suggestions once you finish your probationary period. It's a shame, because you would think we know better. As a result of the demands of the job, people fall into the trap of lousy sleep patterns, stress, poor stress coping mechanisms(booze and smoking), poor eating habits, poor physical fitness, and their health- and longevity suffers. I am amazed at how many people I work with who are in their 40's that are walking around with significant CAD, HTN, DM, and stents. We have to do a better job of taking care of ourselves.

that's cool did you have to PT, man if medic schools required this kind of pt we would have fat medics around.

Well their not coming here to the US for medical care , as they are for the American Dream type of thing would be my guess.

How is the "new" Paramedic an I-99???????????????????? Also, states can ignore the NREMT and do what they want at the state level.

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh now I understand his statement

Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not arguing that you don't check out a unit when you start your day for the very reasons that you state. However, you shouldn't have to show up early to do it and, ideally, everything should already be there since you should be restocking the unit with supplies that you use as often as possible. Similarly, the paperwork you cited are generally not completed by everyone (HR/attendance paperwork is what HR/officer/crew chief is for, not your standard fire fighter or EMT). Unit/equipment checkout paperwork should be completed as you're checking out your unit/equipment, so that get's rolled in with the actual checkout. Maintenance logs are what the mechanics are for (Sorry County Dispatch, we can't respond. Jim Bob has the ambulance up on blocks doing an oil change because it's been 3000 miles. No, we didn't ask for a backup unit, Jim Bob said that this should only take 5 minutes). The fact is that you can get a call 5 minutes after you walk in regardless of what time you walk in. If you show up 2 hours early at 5am, what's stopping you from getting a call at 5:05? Do you decline the call because you haven't had a chance to check everything out yet provided you are in a static, station based deployment model? So, because there's already ample opportunities to mess something up, there should be free license to ignore it completely? Since when does tradition trump safety. There's a reason, for example, that medical residents are now limited to only 80 hours a week. Why? Because the lack of sleep was causing mistakes that lead to adverse patient care events. Just because there's a chance, even a probability, that a late night/early morning call can come in doesn't mean that such a disruption should be designed into the schedule for giggles.