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I know very little about the Canadian system, but I will say this for rural service work - it's a whole 'nother ballgame. You will learn how to do patient care as frequently there isn't the resources and comfort level there is in the city. Also, I imagine you work even harder in Canada than rural services in the US (and some of us work pretty hard !) because if all else fails and you are in way over your head the US resorts to calling helicopters. With the limited helo resources up there, they are utilized much more efficiently. I'd definitely suggest giving rural a try and learning. You will be a much better provider for it, and if/when you move to the urban setting it will seem like a piece of cake (though each present their own unique challenges). Good luck in whatever you decide to do !

If you really want to become an EMT, then go for it. It's a relatively quick process and an easy field to get into especially in California. There are several 1-6 month programs that can give you the most basic education to function as an EMT. However, I'd agree with your counselor to get more of your basic classes out of the way and then re-assess your options in the medical field. There are many other positions aside from EMT which also tend to pay better and allow a more regular schedule (plus you'll need them to become a Paramedic if that's also your thing). I only say this as I prepare to go back to school next month to work on my nursing school pre-requisites. Welcome to the forums though and good luck in your endeavors! Let me know if you need any help.

Regardless of the type of seizure, it's not our place to diagnose and judge. There's huge variability in them and as you said, not everything that shakes is a seizure. But at a minimum (faked, pseudo, or real) they should have attempted to keep her from hurting herself - especially seeing she was pregnant and being aware of that fact. Seizures can and do kill people - more than many realize. It's not always harmless, and what they did is inexcusable whatever their personal opinions, you're there, you're identified as a medical professional, sorry your break is OVER !

Assuming they were just good Samaritans and perhaps were off duty with no gear, they did exactly what I would have done in that situation. I don't carry one piece of gear with me when I'm off duty. I also don't wear EMS or fire related clothing off duty, but that's another issue. What else could I do if someone was having an active seizure while I'm out slumming in my favorite fabric store except protect them from harming themselves and call 911? I can attempt to gather as much information as I can for the incoming EMS unit, but honestly my first priority is making sure the patient doesn't slam their head against the floor or other hard object during the event. Sounds to me that the good Samaritans, if they had no equipment accessible, did an appropriate job. As for the other people involved. I know how stories can be falsified or enhanced. From the information we have so far, they appear to be guilty as sin for negligence, but it's not for me to judge them, especially with such limited information from a newspaper. I'll be more interested to see how things pan our for them in the end. As for the lady involved, it was truly tragic. God Bless their family, and other child, during this time.

I would support a fellow medic in need - especially if they came into the situation unknowing (which from the discussion I'm seeing here I have a hard time believing). But I would not appreciate the fact that essentially they are working as a "scab". It is a unique opportunity to get to work with the olympics, but sadly it is under horrible circumstances. I wouldn't expect a happy reception either. If the IOC, and VANOC are taking this stance, then it should be their responsibility to provide housing. The burden is on them, since they essentially started the problem.

Squint and Al have given you pretty well all of the pertinent information regarding the matter. If your friend/coworker has any desire to have any kind of cordial relationship with Canadian paramedics I would strongly recomend abandoning plans to work/volunteer at the 2010 games. Those of us in BC are currently engaged in a provincial labour dispute with national ramifications. At this point "Charter Rights" (similair in concept to US constitutional rights) have been violated by a provincial dictatorship.

I am in no way excusing the actions of these providers. It is my firm belief that the only way to mitigate these types of incidents is to try and gain some sort of lesson from it. This story immediately brings to mind the mid-level provider minimization of symptoms syndrome. I truly believe that if these EMTs had been cognizant of the seriousness of this woman's condition, they would have acted. Once the newbie excitement has been ground out of EMS personnel, and before the true wisdom of seasoned veterans begins to take hold, there is a "been there done that it's nothing" mentality that causes providers to make serious mistakes. It is something that we need to be aware of and guard against. My personal experience is that seizures are one of the most "faked" symptoms I come across. Of all the seizure calls I have responded on, perhaps 1 in 5 have been true seizures and non have been life threatening. (self limiting, requiring supportive care and a trip to the hospital). I actually studied the phenomena of pseudo seizures in my efforts to be of some use to these patients, to try and understand why they do it so that I would not just dismiss these patients as "nuts". In this particular case, the pregnancy was a great big red flag and should have warned these EMTs that this had the potential to go very bad very fast. I would hate to be them, and not just because of the public censure and loss of job, but I don't know that I could carry the burden of the deaths of a young mother and her child.

I happen to work in Calgary at the moment, as far as hiring goes, I have no idea what is going on with recruiting, but they just released a new batch onto the streets. So I imagine there will be another posting fairly soon. Hrm... Ive heard the idea that the rural area is the best training ground for new EMTs many times before. I'm not sure that I believe it. A green EMT is a green EMT, no matter where he starts. Calgary seems to be chronicly understaffed, and many brand new EMTs are hired here right off their practicums. Some do well, and learn fast, others don't. A previous poster said that an EMT learns to communicate better in the rural setting. Would you care to explain the reasoning behind that? Please don't tell me its because they get to spend hours on transfers chatting up old ladies. I think the multiple patient interactions, frequent reports to nurses, increased exposure to doctors that occurs in an urban setting is a great way to improve communication skills. I'm not attempted to bash rural services here. I started out in one, and have very fond memories of my time there. However, I think that Mobey brings up a very good point when he mentions the low call volume in certain areas. How is it an advantage to a new practitioner when they do maybe 4 calls per tour? I will admit that there are certain skills to be learned when tranports are longer and back-up is limited, but that has to be weighed the actual number of calls as well. As for this idea that an urban EMT simply rests on his laurels, letting the Paramedic take the weight of the calls? I can assure you that is not the case, at least in the service I work for. All new employees of the city are expected to learn to SOP and protocols for the city, including the medications, and ALS procedures. So, I think it safe to say there are a different subset of skills one can learn in urban vs rural setting, one can learn what they need to learn in either setting. But to say an EMT learns to communicate better in a rural setting? That is utter nonsense.

Greetings, As a member of the BC Ambulance Service and The Ambulance Paramedics of British Columbia CUPE Local 873 I think it is my place to provide some friendly guidance in this matter. If you have been offered the chance to come to Vancouver/Whistler for the 2010 Winter Olympics to work as a medic either paid or volunteer, please be aware that you are coming into a labour dispute between the Paramedic Union, the Government of British Columbia and the Vancouver Olympic Organizing Committee (VANOC_ (and as such the IOC). We were involved in a legal strike with our employer the BC Government and in the midst of voting on a contract offer when the Government imposed legislation ending our strike. This legislation was pushed through a marathon session of the Legislature by a majority government that refused to hear arguments from the opposition party. In fact the minister of Health who tabled the bill actually put earplugs in while members of the opposition read arguments against the bill. Further more it was brought to light that the reason this piece of law was forced was because VANOC asked the government to end the strike before the Olympics to save international embarrassment. As such the Paramedics of BC have chosen to not volunteer to work at any Olympic Venue either paid or unpaid. The only Paramedic involvement will be that of EMS Venue Commanders who were hired prior to our strike commencing on April 1 2009. They could not resign due to threat of dismissal. Our refusal to work the games is due to the fact that our service currently is not capable of meeting standard operational levels because of mismanagement and lack of adequate staffing levels. To staff the games while duty ambulances go unmanned is unethical and unrealistic. VANOC has stated that they will revert to Plan B which is not exactly known but if medics from outside are being recruited to come and work it's obvious what the plan may be. Please in the spirit of solidarity and better judgment DO NOT COME TO BC TO WORK THE OLYMPICS AS A MEDIC!!!! It is safe to say you will not be welcomed and won't be treated well by our membership. Paramedic Unions from across Canada and the US have publicly stated that they will not endorse any of their members coming here to work for the games. Please come to BC for any other reason you like but respect our fight and not work.

I'd offer a room, but I think the commute might be a bit far seeing as I'm in the southern US - good luck finding a place though.

Most selected medics have boycott'd the games in support of the BC paramedic strike. Food for thought

On duty? Respond! Duty to act! In uniform? Respond! Duty to act! On meal break? Asked to help? Break over, unfortunately. Respond! Duty to act! As for a private ambulance service responding to the MetroTech complex? The district is that of a hospital subcontracted private EMS provider, as a part of the NYC 9-1-1 system. When the patient is known to be a uniformed member of the FDNY (including FDNY EMS, or FDNY EMS EMD), the EMD tries to get a department ambulance for the response. 'S'matter of fact, the same exists for the FDNY EMS Academy, following ME being the patient at the academy, and being transported by a hospital based 9-1-1 system provider to the hospital. What I read in the link reminds me, again, of a Pre-Merger EMS team in the Bronx, just got their sandwiches, and told folks running up to them to call 9-1-1, even though they were close enough to the call scene to see CPR being performed! Both crewmen were initially placed on "No patient contact" work details at EMS HQ, and eventually both fired, and stripped of their "certs" by the NY State DoH. As the newspapers described the ambulance by it's shop number, the vehicle was actually taken out of service and stored at the HQ building for a month, that Bronx locals would not attack any crew in that vehicle, believing them to be the non-responding crew. The unit's radio designation was "Two One David", so the unit ended up being referred to, and nastilly, as I recall, as "Two One Deli". As for the EMD personnel involved, I just hope I do NOT know them, as I spent my first 11 of my almost 25 years in municipal EMS service working in the EMD. Understandably, I don't want to see friends in this situation, if they are innocent, nor do I want them as friends if they are guilty.

1. You are wrong. Even the dead have HIPAA rights. 2. Nothing could be further from the truth. Copyright remains the intellectual property of the person taking the photograph regardless of what happens to it. Whoever posted the image online w/out rights permission from the creator, stole the image.

Do we really need to know whether something is technically illegal to know it's not a great idea to pull out a camera onscene for personal use AND then post those photos anywhere? Maybe this photo is real, maybe it's not. Maybe it's covered under HIPPA, maybe it's from Ontario and covered under PHIPPA or maybe it's from somewhere else all together. Let's look past the legal and consider the moral and the practical. Whether it's real or not, a violation or not, how does this photo in this situation represent EMS as a profession. I would say poorly and unfortunately in line with what the public in some areas has come to expect. Should this site as a forum for professional discourse host this image without knowing for sure and being able to state that it is a moulage photo? That's up to Admin, it's his/her site. I would, however, urge discretion and suggest that no harm is done by it's removal and nothing is gained by it's continued stay. Edit: A quick check of the source page lists it under "Photos Taken on Calls."

i agree every state is different! i too am very glad that no matter what you have not given up what your dream! i knew that i wanted to be and emt and paramedic someday.... i was lucky enough right after i got married to see the dream of an emt come true..but after being an emt for several years i was going to go paramedic school life hit me with a curve ball and i got struck down with lupus and the cousin to it sjogrens syndrome. so i watched that dream slip away!! i am thankful that i could still volunteer as an emt...never let your dream slip away..good luck in your endeavor to be am emt and then medic!!! anna

Anna, Every State handles these things differently. It is imperative for you to find out what the local paramedic courses require for entry. As far as the rest of it, you should be proud of yourself for never giving up the dream. I really started down the career path when I was 31, fortunately for me I had some things fall into place and tings have wroked out beyond my expectations. I am now 40 and last night I completed my final exam for paramedic school. I have my practical on Saturday and then my ride time. I should have my NREMT-P by April. It is not an easy thing to do for people who are established with lives and families, but it can be done. Keep the goal in the forefront and everythng else will take care of itself. Good Luck

I would say take A&P, pharmo, patho, English comp, communications and a research methods class before even venturing into EMT or Paramedic. They will greatly increase your knowledge above what is taught in the EMT course. You may even strike it lucky and be one of the first to take the new 2009 EMT curriculum.

Very true, but the trade-off is time vs money. The faster the course the more it costs.

She would have to work a few years as an RN to get those positions. Of course, she might be able to find an ambulance service that just hires whoever regardless of experience which there are a few in CA known to do that. For the cost of an EMT class at NCTI she could get a whole Paramedic degree at a California Community college with the very low tuition rates in that state.

Well, you can also be an MICN which is just about the only way to get on a helicopter or plane in California as well as doing CCT. The paramedic scope here is rather limited compared to other states. However, if you have an EMT program at your local college, just do that so you can get started. If you want a faster method look up NCTI in Roseville as they have accelerated EMT classes (though you still get a good education).

Of course a counselor will tell you to take all those other classes, they are employed by the college and most likely instructed to push classes on students. But it's not a bad thing. Take the classes. That being said, having a pysch, math, English, world history, etc etc will not necessarily make you a better EMT, but in my honest opinion, they will. Psychology will teach you how to understand people and their feelings/actions better. That will help you better treat them. Math is a no brainer since math is a big part of medications, you would not want to make mistakes there. English is always good since we speak it. The smarter and more professional you talk, the better a patient will trust you. The only person you have to listen to, is yourself. If you want to be an EMT, go be an EMT. No one can tell you what you should do with your life. My advice is, do what you want. Learn as much as you can even if it "isn't in the field".

One of my medics has been selected as a volunteer for the Olympic Games in February. He's having trouble finding affordable housing. Anybody in the sea to ski area have a room to rent or some suggestions? He'll be there from the 10th through 29th. Any ideas or info would be appreciated. Dean Anderson Sonoma Life Support

Oh my that is terrible. Should be charged with murder

You didn't win anything yet buddy

I wasnt looking for sympathy you genius. It was a simple warning. If you didnt care so much why waste your precious last brain cells on making a reply. Its funny how the only person from FL that replied knew what I was talking about.

I was not selected as any type of Medical person, make a difference?

i was looking through the picture gallery and came up on this pic. Is this a violation of hippa or not?

I hear that's your best feature mate! Um, oh dear, that came out wrong ..... hmm, I, er, um, I'll just quit while I'm behind I really am no good at this ....