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I'm anxious to see them follow up on this story with statistics of how many grads actually find an EMS job. That's EMS, not minimum wage horizontal taxi driver. And of those who do find a real EMS job, how long they keep it. I sense FAIL.

NCTI is AMR's "EMT and medic mill". They are very expensive where the community colleges are roughly $25/credit hour. Also, at the colleges, you get actual college credit which will transfer within almost any college system. NCTI's credits will go nowhere. You may not want to stay just as an EMT but may want to advance to Paramedic or some other health field. Being established in a college will be a plus. Of course, since NCTI is a private trade school, they are professional sales people and will attempt to sell you a package deal including their "week long" Anatomy and Physiology class which they say is exactly the same almost as what you get in a college. They will then attempt to get you to sign up for their Paramedic program for some obscene amount but presented to you as "all for just one low price of $xx,000 and 10 years of loan payments. Unfortunately, the EMT-B will not give you alot of clinical experience. However, I do think the lab at SF-CC is adequate despite being a little shabby if they are still in the same location. But, if their class structure is set up for more lecture as well as lab, that is way ahead of the 4 or 8 week programs that still only come out to 120 hours of training. But, again, the perk is getting your foot in the door of a decent college system for future endeavors. I also suggest taking some real college Anatomy and Physiology courses so you will have a better understanding of the skills you will be doing with the hands on part. A 120 hour course is not enough. You will also be better prepared for Paramedic school and whatever the future holds for EMS. Too many find Paramedic school difficult because they have not taken classes since high school. Paramedic school is also not that long and instead of giving you a good foundation first, it relies a lot on memorization. If you take a few foundation courses first, Paramedic school will be much easier for you. You are still young so don't get overly concerned about time.

Sounds like a plan!! Welcome and have fun... most here are helpful and have loads of experience to learn from! Best of luck to you!

Hi everyone. I am new to EMS, and will be starting school June 2010. It took a few weeks to decide which school to find out here in CA (Bay area) but, I think I settled on NCTI. I am 34, and finally forcing the path (wayy too many excuses before) to do what I have wanted to do for about 10 years now. I am married, have two tweens, and am ready to make this happen. I hope to be certified, and working by late next year. Right now, on papaer, my goal is to work as a Basic for about a year and a half, maybe 2, and then go to school for Paramedic. I am not in any rush as I want to do this correctly and with lots of thought and planning. I signed on here to maybe meet a few people from my area, to definitly learn from as many angles as possible about the good, bad, ugly, and rewarding of EMS. I have also heard that people who are not in EMS, esp. family do not understand a lot of what your going through. So, even as early as school, I thought it would be great to have some friends who have been there and "get it". Thanks Lisa

You arrive to find eight firefighters already on scene in all thier getup, 6 are standing around doing nothing, 1 is attempting a blood pressure and the other is trying to turn the oxygen on. Oh wait wait wait, what am I saying, we think logically down here, so scratch that, they're back at the fire station where they belong watching telly and playing scrabble. Patient is a 4 year old male in severe resp distress. BP 110/P RR 30, laboured, sig increased work of breathing, acc. muscle use (back/neck/trachea/costals) PR 130 BS Rasping cough, high pitched stridorous sound insp/exp, sounds diminished in all fields The teacher keps on screaming about how the parents said he has a history of severe, life threatning croup. This is a real job, I am interested to see how we approach it.

Couldn't agree more...I didn't go through my medic yet without credit but I have my basic and intermediate all with no credit hours. I'd be that much farther ahead for the same work had I been smarter. I think its excellent to have other options left open. Even if you end up head over heels for ems, it's hard on your body, and a tough profession to make real money in. GET CREDIT where credit is due.

Do you have us confused with Firehouse.com?

Yeah, it seems a bit like going to ballet lessons because you hope to someday be an astronaut.

He hopes to one day "become a paramedic, and eventually a firefighter". I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.

Good advice from VentMedic. As a product of a vocational school (though a well-respected one), I had a good basis to start work, but felt lacking in a complete education. I've spent several years studying on my own and learning from real world experience to really feel comfortable with what I do, and I don't have any college credit to show for that. Go the college route for sure if it's available for you. Where I used to live, it wasn't available to me and I would have taken advantage of it if I could. I now say this having an intern who attended NCTI and has a lot of studying to do to fill the gaps in his education just as I did. Now I'm going back to school for nursing and I'm pretty much starting from scratch, so I wish I had the credits for the time I put into my education after medic school. Anyways, good luck with your studies and I hope you enjoy being an EMT. I'm local to the bay area as well and I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.

First of all, whether they were EMT's Medics, or Dispatchers ( all of whom are at least EMT's) It does not matter. You are standing there in uniform, and therefor, you are probably bound by a "duty to act". Having said that there probably is/was not a lot they could do, seeing as how they had or it sounds like they had NO EQUIPMENT. This does not excuse the fact that they LEFT THE SCENE. Should've stayed, done CPR, or at LEAST Compressions, called 9-1-1 upgraded the call to a Cardiac Arrest, whatever. But ,, Whats up with the union throwing them under the bus like that ?????.... As a dues paying member of a union, I expect more from them than that comment.. Something like "We are awiting the outcome of the investigation",,, whatever... WTF, I'm so GLAD I AM NOT in that union anymore. One thing for the Mayor and Fire Chief to slam my, but my own UNION. Kinda like your own LAWYER submarining you.

I hope so. I am trying to tell myself that I have maturity (kinda..lol) and age on my side, while not being too old. Then I kinda worry that someone in their 20's will breeze past me since I am well into my thirties..*sigh I am just gonna grin and bear it, try hard, and do my best. I really really like your plan o action with the city college. Sine I plan on going through to Paramedic at SFC anyway, its only a big duhhh to start there. I just am not a huge fan of the city streets, thats just the sissy in me. I guess there is only one way to get over that. Okay then, I feel better, its a more solid option. The spring 2010 classes are closed already. I need to get a jump on the summer or fall classes ASAP before I lose a spot there. Thanks so much

There is San Francisco city which seems to be a good program. And one closer to me that is a community college in Pittsburg, but that one is 5 months VS the other two programs that are 8 weeks. And I was told by two people that its not the "best choice". There is actually another that is only 4 weeks in Berkeley, but something about that doesnt feel right. I narrowed it down to NCTI and the San Francisco program, but, have not put any money down on either as of yet. I really am looking for a school that has great hands on time during and after its program. I dont want to just textbook learn everything, take the NR, pass (hopefully) and then be a wreck in real life. I live about 40 minutes plus from both schools and about 15 minutes from the community college one. I know that when it comes to the Paramedic program I want to go to San Francisco, it seems to have the best, but, more costly.

1) These were EMTs, apparently, and not Paramedics. 2) When I left what would become FDNY EMS EMD in 1996, unless there were some major problem in progress, like a Computer Assisted Dispatch system crash, we'd get 2 twenty minute breaks, and a 40 minute meal break, during an 8 hour tour. The 2 twenties were never to be during the first or final hours of the tour. EMD was probably the only area almost assured of getting scheduled breaks. Field-side, there was no guarentee of a break, and you could be called off a break to handle assignments. As far as I know, this continues today. 3) As of this time, first you are an EMT BEFORE they train you as a call taker, and then a dispatcher (possibly to be changed, as they are trying the Unified Call Takers protocols for the NYC 9-1-1 system, where the callers would talk with a PD "Communications Tech"). 4) As members of the FDNY, they would be in uniform, or in pullover shirts, or "workshirts" that say FDNY EMD. I doubt if they would change out of the uniform just for a break or meal. 5) The FDNY HQ building has a newspaper stand off of the lobby, where they also sell FDNY workshirts. As they don't say Fire Fighter, EMT, or Paramedic, I know some of the HQ civilian staffers wear them. 6) All uniformed members of the FDNY, from the person in their first day of the academy, to Chief of Department Salvadore Cassano, either have CPR and First Aid training, or will get it before they can wear the full uniform. Obviously, EMTs and Paramedics will have more training than that. 6-A) Chief Cassano is going to be the new Fire Commissioner, January 1, 2010, as current commissioner Nicholas Scopetta steps down. 7) Fire Fighters are "repped" by different unions than the EMS people. However, if it becomes clear that any member of any of these unions did something that puts the department, or the union, into "disrepute", the union leadership might actually hold the door open as the department kicks the individuals out that door. Disclaimer: The views I express in this posting may not reflect the viewpoints of either the FDNY, or Local 2507 of DC 37 AFSCME, although I am a member of both.

Welcome to the site. You'll be exposed to many differing opinions on many subjects. Get set to absorb.......

......said that all FDNY members "take an oath to assist others whenever they're in need of emergency medical care. It's their sworn duty." A union spokesman said Monday that EMTs generally consider their jobs to be a 24-hour kind of thing. "Our people tend to spring into action whether they're on duty, off duty, whatever they're doing," said Robert Ungar, spokesman for the Uniformed EMTS and Paramedics, FDNY. The city's EMTs have a "very strong bond with the people of New York City that they serve," he said. "They view themselves as always being on duty." He said the union was waiting to see what the results of the Fire Department's investigation would be. "If there was unprofessional conduct by these EMTs, the union does not condone any type of conduct which in any way can harm members of the public," he said. On Monday, Bloomberg repeated comments he made over the weekend criticizing the EMTs, saying refusing to help goes against human decency. "There's no excuse whatsoever," he said. The process is moving faster that I expected........see posted NEWS ROBOT entry of entire article.

I thought underprivileged meant poor.

To be fair, testicular pain can be a true emergency, and if the patient doesn't have anyone to drive them to the hospital that minute, then an ambulance ride is definitely appropriate. Exactly how good of a driver are you going to be when your junk feels like it's in a vice?

I am in no way excusing the actions of these providers. It is my firm belief that the only way to mitigate these types of incidents is to try and gain some sort of lesson from it. This story immediately brings to mind the mid-level provider minimization of symptoms syndrome. I truly believe that if these EMTs had been cognizant of the seriousness of this woman's condition, they would have acted. Once the newbie excitement has been ground out of EMS personnel, and before the true wisdom of seasoned veterans begins to take hold, there is a "been there done that it's nothing" mentality that causes providers to make serious mistakes. It is something that we need to be aware of and guard against. My personal experience is that seizures are one of the most "faked" symptoms I come across. Of all the seizure calls I have responded on, perhaps 1 in 5 have been true seizures and non have been life threatening. (self limiting, requiring supportive care and a trip to the hospital). I actually studied the phenomena of pseudo seizures in my efforts to be of some use to these patients, to try and understand why they do it so that I would not just dismiss these patients as "nuts". In this particular case, the pregnancy was a great big red flag and should have warned these EMTs that this had the potential to go very bad very fast. I would hate to be them, and not just because of the public censure and loss of job, but I don't know that I could carry the burden of the deaths of a young mother and her child.

here's a more friendly and receptive crowd for you www.firewhackers.com

You will hae vo forgive this poor misguided soul. Remember there is no intelligence required to put the wet stuff on the hot stuff. Brains are an optional accessory.

What is wrong with people? I mean you want to hang them w/o considering that if they left the line and took the patient they might not get to eat that day. Come get your priorities right people.

I think regardless of setting you have to set a bench mark. In the urban setting where system abuse is so rampant they are the root cause of most of the systems dysfunction. Our responce times in the urban setting would be to standard if people didn't call for "testicle pain and ear pain", "pediatric flu symptoms", "headache x3 days" these are all calls I frequently have.

You know you're a Firefighter if… 1. You can tell what type of fire it is by the smell of smoke 10 miles away. 2. You have ever had a heated debate over the color of firetrucks. 3. You have ever spent 10 min trying to force open a door only to have someone come along and open it by turning the handle. 4. You have ever taken 10 or more showers in 1 day. 5. You lay out your cloths from that day so if there is a call at night you can find them quickly. 6. You take great joy in smashing the windows of a car parked in a fire zone or in front of a hydrant. 7. You have ever been airborne without an aircraft and water was your thrust. 8. You always wear red suspenders. 9. You have ever slept in a hosebed. 10. You carry a ton of specially modified tools in your pocket. 11. You ever cursed out someone for armor-alling the seats to make them look nice. 12. You've ever clung to the air horn chord for dear life because the driver is insane. 13. You have ever played jingle bells at Xmas time on the air horns to clear traffic. 14. You double your weight every time you go on a job a building. 15. You have ever said, "she's hot tonight" and not been talking about a girl. 16. You have ever had "yoda ears" 17. You have ever called a person found after a fire a "crispy critter" 18. You have ever smoked and there wasn't a cigarette in sight. 19. You have ever stomped out a fire with your boots because you couldn't wait for water. 20. You have ever walked 3 miles into the woods in 100 degree heat in full turnout gear and a 5 gal or more water can strapped on your back just to put out a fire.