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It seems like we've been seeing a lot of new faces lately, and from them gaining a lot of strong, smart new members. In the spirit of the City I thought maybe we could throw out some ideas on how to be successful here? Here are a few of mine.. 1) Welcome. We're glad to have you no matter what your certification level, experience, education or what type of service you happen to work at. The fact that we're glad to have you doesn't mean we don't argue these points, it simply means that we value thoughts, and the people brave and kind enough to share them, from every point on the compass and political spectrum. 2) You can gain very little here if you don't participate. Learn here, where it's safe, to air your ideas and encourage constructive criticism. If you can't push yourself out front here then you need to question if you'll have what it takes to push yourself to the front when people are suffering. Also, doing so causes most of us some pressure, allowing you to learn to think with that pressure and accept the consequences of those decisions. 3) No one here, regardless of how it may sometimes seem, wants to see you fail, here or in your career. Too often it seems that criticism is considered derision when in fact the exact opposite is true. We thrash each other's ideas to make each other stronger, not to try and prove our superiority. There is nothing that makes the smartest people here happier than to see those that have been mentored here succeed and even surpass the high standards most often expected here. I'm always very aware when someone has commented on one of my thoughts that this is a smart, successful person that had better things to do, yet made time to help me try and get smarter. I try and remember to be grateful for that. Nothing makes me happier than to lose an argument, because it means that I've fought with every tool in my toolbox to defend something that seemed perfectly logical and evident to me, yet...I was wrong. And now, thanks to someone smarter, that fought harder, I don't have to continue to be wrong tomorrow. 4) Do not Google your answers and then pretend that they are yours so that you don't feel stupid. Being wrong isn't stupid. Being afraid of being wrong, and so allowing yourself to remain wrong is stupid. Give answers from your head, use your own brain, create your own logic trees, that is how you grow and become stronger. Think I'm kidding? Follow my posting history and you'll see some of the most idiotic thoughts you can imagine, but many didn't remain idiotic because I was allowed to work them out with help from my friends here. And when I say friends? I'm talking about some really smart folks that left my ego bruised and bleeding at the end of some gnarly discussions. 5) Please understand that when we critique your spelling and grammar that it is not to belittle you but to help you grow as a professional and separate yourself from the significant number of your peers that everyone else is laughing at every day. Hanging out is fine, but use that time to improve yourself. We all make mistakes. We're looking not for perfection, but for the effort that says you're trying. Spelling and grammar are a practiced skill. We all make mistakes, that's why we push each other to constantly keep practicing. 6) Chat is chat and the forums are the forums though often the two overlap. Please don't bring your playful chat dialog and insert it into forum conversations. Not because 'chat is stupid' because of course it's not. It's just easy sometimes to take the fun, carefree familiar attitude of chat and allow it to distract from conversation in the forums. Besides, most of the people reading the threads won't get your references anyway. One's not better than the other necessarily, they just don't often mix well. 7) Have fun, be brave, make friends, find mentors, ask for help, help others…but most importantly, use this as a resource. This isn't a place that you come to prove how smart you are, but to prove that you want to be smarter. Almost everyone here respects that. Some of the most intelligent people I've ever met I've met here and my life will never be the same because I was gifted with their patience and advice. Use them, but as you do, remember to be grateful and give back. And in case I was somehow not clear...If you see my posts, and you find a bad idea, wrong thinking, bad attitude, poor logic, spelling, grammar, and choose to ignore it to 'be nice?' I will never thank you for that. I will never be grateful that you allowed me to be weaker today than I needed to be..Just sayin'... I'm hoping that many here will add to my silly little list…what do you think guys and gals? Dwayne Edited about a gazillion times because, for some reason, the text I see in my edit window isn't translating well when posted. I don't think I'll cut and paste from Word next time. No contextual changes made. Formating only.

Some very good advice here! A couple other things to add: 1. Intentionally 'stirring the pot' is a good way to start collecting frowns from the general membership. We're each entitled to our opinions, but to go out of your way to 'stir things up' is generally not well received. 2. Please try to refrain from digressing to name calling. It usually proves nothing, and it more often than not precludes others from wanting to try to see things from your perspective. 3. Your homework is your homework. We don't mind helping you with it, but please don't expect us to do it for you. We've already done ours. There are some very bright minds here (I'm still wondering how that happened!); take advantage of them, you'll be surprized how many are willing to pass on what they know. 4. A little logic and common sense go a long way around here. Want to really bring the wrath of the gods to bear? Defend an action with 'because the book says', as opposed to logically defending your point..... 4a. Don't be afraid/ashamed to admit that you were wrong. You'd be surprized how far that goes toward 'credibility' and respect! Above all, jump in; the water's fine and the piranhas have all been fed (for now)!

Kudos x 2. First for not being bated into a name calling shitfest. I've been frustrated with your arguments and what at times seems your desire to ignore mine, but I have a lot of respect for the way that you've conducted yourself all the while. Thanks for that. Second, I think that you've made your point here more clearly than at any other time, and were able to do so without arguing that the union is the only way to accomplish such things, which of course would have voided your point for many. I also respect the fact that you've continued to make your point regardless of it's popularity over and over in different ways. Pretty cool. Side note, do our brothers in Aus and NZ have unions in place as we know them here? Dwayne

Seems only like they are psych patients. Maybe persons being transported to psych hospitals, need to be fully restrained until they are with in the facility?

I thought this might be an interesting thread. Since most of us are working on our taxes this time of year, I'd like to see what our average wages look like. If you feel like participating, please post how much you earned working EMS in 2009, your job title, years experience, type of EMS you work for, the state you work in, and the average number of overtime hours you work per week. To make things easier for people to read, please just cut and paste the format I'm using to post my info. If anyone thinks other information would be valuable for this "poll," please speak up! For me: Earnings: $65,682 Job Title: Paramedic Experience: 3 years as a medic, 5 years with company, 7 years in EMS Type: Private ambulance company State: CT Avg OT: 8 hrs/week

As mentioned, don't trash someone due to what they say. It is better to say to anyone else, even me (the admitted legend in his own mind), that something stated is incorrect, but back it with facts. Do not say "You're wrong because you are a dunderhead", but instead, say, "You are wrong for the following reason(s)", and explain your reasoning. A personal peeve of mine is, never presume that everyone else will understand something indicated locally by wherever you're certified or licensed as an emergency medical practitioner by initials. I was once confused by some folks' usage of "Con-Ed". By me, that's the electric company, Consolidated Edison, here in New York City. I returned the confusion with "C.M.E." Is that Chief Medical Examiner, or Continuing Medical Education? If you must use initials TRANSLATE the initials. NEVER USE ALL CAPS! Even in non-EMS related areas outside of EMT City, that is considered to be shouting, and impolite even at best. Remember that the search, and the spell check, functions are your friends. We really don't need a gazillion separate strings on the same topic, and either the administrator will shut a string down, or one of the moderators (which I am not!) will. Spelling is considered to be a function of good intelligence, even when I, and others start typing in dialect, as sometimes we Noo Yawkahs from Lawn Gyland might do wit youze guyz (Ya wanna make sumpin of it?). Yes, we play (some even more than I do, if you can believe it) but we keep it within the context of EMS work. Be advised that there is always going to be a battle primarily between the hospital based, and the Fire Department based, EMS systems, as well as the paid and volunteer service providers on the site. Opinions are like noses, everyone has one. No matter how well you state a position, someone will have an equally well stated opposition opinion. I may have a different opinion than you, but I'll defend you the right to have that opinion; you might even sway me to your view. (Who'da thunk it?) Newjacks and Newbies, be advised: Welcome Aboard!

So what? Then you're full of shit about working with wild animals. There is not an animal trainer alive that works with wild animals that has not had mishaps. None! Being bitten or scratched or being killed are just a matter of degree. So what LS? He didn't volunteer for this gig. He was captured and forced to play the game. What is your point? Humans had options, he didn't, they paid a price. What is so hard for you to understand about that? It's been done before successfully, it's just expensive. But it was expensive to catch him, why not be responsible for the expense of letting him go. Don't your own arguments prove that he's not very well domesticated? No one died because he had a poor attitude. They died because they captured a wild animal and then attempted to live with it. And then, for a few moments, allowed the fact that he was a wild animal slip from their mind and paid a heavy price. You have such a strange way of avoiding responsibility. If children are bad, instead of being responsible for their attitudes and behaviors we simply need to beat them more. If an animal, when forced out of it's environment and denied it's instinctual and emotional needs causes harm then instead of taking responsibility we need to kill it. What is wrong with you? Do you know how I can prove that you're lying when you talk of working with wild animals in the past? (Now, not meaning Malamutes that people pretend are wolves) Because if you had you would not only have been forced to develop at least some sense of behavior science, which you've proven over and over not to possess, but you would be shocked not that this happened, but that it doesn't happen more often. Why are you so shocked, with your 'wild animal experience' that this animal behaved in a manner consistent with it's nature? No one, and I mean no one with experience training wild animals would be shocked at such an obvious thing. It's like the old parable of the scorpion and the crocodile. A scorpion needs to cross a river but can't swim. A crocodile (abridged version) offers to take him across but worries that, "If I give you a ride you might sting me." The scorpion says, "Why would I do that? If I did such a thing then we'd both die." The crock agrees and they begin the trip. Part way across the scorpion stings the crock in the head, and they begin to sink. The crock says, "Why did you do that!?! Now we're both going to die!" The scorpion says, "Why did you think I could go against my nature?" I never claimed you placed his rights above that of a human, it's obvious you believe he has no rights. I said you placed his responsibility above that of the human and by doing so have elevated him above human beings. The human created the environment, made all of the rules, was responsible for all of the access yet when a person was killed you blamed the whale. I'm not going to continue to argue this with you LS unless you read the entire posts. Though I have very much respect for the increasing quality of your posts, you still seem to believe that you can twists words, change context, ask silly questions and we're going to be baffled by your bullshit. Read the entire post. Not just parts. And then take a moment to think before replying. When you reply when you're all stirred up you come off as a child in your logic. I hope better for you... I look forward to your thoughts. Dwayne

Well put, Dwayne, and I think your post could even serve as a reminder for those who are not new to the forum. I'm a relative rookie here- lurked occasionally for years but never started posting until a year or so ago. I know we are supposedly educated here- at least to a point past a HS diploma. Yes, some have advanced degrees, some have professional degrees, but you certainly do not need to possess an alphabet soup behind your name to present a coherent opinion or argument. One of the things I like about this forum is that there are literally people from across the planet, with experiences, work environments, and histories much different than my own, yet in some way, we all fall under the EMS umbrella. The only way I would ever be exposed to many of them is on a place like this forum, and I consider myself a richer and more well rounded person for it. Clearly there are hot button issues that can degrade into degrading attacks and insults, but thankfully those incidents seem to be cyclical as well as infrequent. Everyone has their own "deal breaker" opinions on certain topics, and the trick is to be able to see the other point of view in those situations. Not always an easy task, I admit. Again- kudos for the well thought out post.

In all sincerity, I'm happy to see EMS being compensated well for a change. It's rare, very rare, to see anyone in EMS making six figures as a base. I think the median medic income is around 39 or 40k. Why, just for example, we'll use my last employer, Charleston County EMS. As a medic, they start you as a crew member. That's at around 38k. After six months, you bump to around 45k/yr. You top out at 68k, but that takes ten years. I think a station LT, which is a senoir crew chief, makes maybe 5k more. Now, there's a posting for asst director. Here's the link, it should be good for the moment: https://jobsweb.charlestoncounty.org/hronline/public/vacancylisting.aspx They only pay 60-74 grand for someone with a bachelors and 10 years managerial experience. I personally find this sad and pathetic. This is basically second in line under the director. I'm making that now. Charleston County has no excuse to compensate so poorly, since they're the richest county in the state. Their EMS also pays the highest. I think it's a great thing to make a six figure base w/o OT where you are. It's sad here. At least you guys have your stuff together. Check my above post. Supervisors with bachelors degrees can't even break six figures.That's why I think that EMS degrees past the AAS don't give much clinical content. If they did, it would be all the easier to branch off to another medical field where they're treated better, compensated better, and have more opportunity for advancement. As such, I don't see EMS growing and advancing into the roles of critical care and other areas that are currently handled by RN's. If one has most of the knowledge and/or classes required by nurses and maybe PA's, then they'll eventually migrate in that direction. Unless things change regarding working conditions, salary, and such, I don't see the clinical education for the paramedic passing the level of the EMS AAS here. I could see the AAS becoming the minimum standard for entry, but not much where clinical knowledge is concerned.

I'll look into that. But anyway. I just had an interview yesterday with the only EMS agency I really want to work for. And I think I may have told the interviewer that old people gross me out. That isn't what I meant but the more I replay it in my head, I think that's what he got from my answer. Oh, and I forgot what the hell integrity meant, when he asked me

Hmmmmm, How much do I earn? Well, even on a poor exchange rate, more than 46young. Shifts are 8 on, with 7 nights on call, 6 off. Plenty of OT if you want it. House prices, up to $US270 for a 4 bed+ house. No dual roles. EMS Only.

Dude, we make 6 figures without the degree, without dual role, without a promotion to Lt & without ALS. but this isnt a pissing competition. enough said.

Dwayne, Unions here in aussie are strong, industrial bodies. We also have professional associations that we can be involed in. The main thing to remember is that our Industrial Relations systems are different. The state I am in has all employees under an Award that covers all employees, and is in force for a 3 year priod. In essence, our Union represents us on industrial matters, associations for other matters. That isnt what I said. I said without a degree. OT is optional unless extention of shift.

musta saw the bill

Be ready to be belittled and criticized for every tiny thing you may mention. The attitude here is "you are wrong, so we will trash you for it" no matter what. Ignore those people, some of us here are friendly and understand.