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I'll just take the high road, and not use either

sorry to offend you

That was it to a certain point, but more so was judging the value of complaining of a problem that you have no desire to fix. How do I know there is no real desire to fix it? Because to fix it means to define it and use what resources are available to understand the motivations involved so as to shape a resolution. In this case we all have the resources, which is our own current or previous desire to cheat, or steal, or lie, which the previous posters claim not to possess. So I do know for a fact that those that are upset don't want to solve the problem badly enough to overcome their distaste for introspection where the subject of dishonesty is concerned. If I want to stop people from beating their kids, which those that have been here a few minutes know is one of my hot buttons, the best, first place to start is to look at myself and ask... "Have I ever beaten my child?", "No." "Have I ever wanted to beat Dylan?", "Oh hell yeah!", "Why did I want to beat him?", "Because his behavior was making me batshit and I wanted it to stop. I couldn't think of any other way to do so.", "Why didn't I beat him?", "Because there is a truckload of scientific data showing that I can't control the outcome of punishment. That there is never punishment without unwanted side effects and I am afraid of those side effects. Plus, I think it's unkind." "Do you believe that you are morally superior to those that beat their children?" "No, I believe that my education in behaviorism has given me a different perspective as well as a different skill set. My desires are no more pure than theirs, I've simply, luckily, followed a different educational path." "So is it possible that education is at least part of an answer to getting others to stop beating their children?" "Yes, I think so." See? The problem is that we started this thread pretending that no one had any concept of why someone might possibly cheat. And it's impossible to fix the issue from there. As long as we continue to bath the issue in showers of our make believe moral superiority then we're just gonna keep getting cheaters dandruff. So yeah, I do think it's relative, but I don't believe that that is the weakness here. It's the refusal to acknowledge that this is not a kid problem, it's a problem with the motivations attached to cheating and the lack of reinforcers attached to not cheating that is the issue. Did you notice that Dust mentioned that he would cheat on an English Lit exam, but not a medical one? And did you also notice that he didn't mention, or even imply that those decisions were morally based? Medicine simply has a higher reinforcement value to him than Eng Lit. He didn't apologize for for Eng Lit, nor expound on his moral purity regarding medicine, because those are not the issues. They simply cloud the issues and make people feel good when talked about. Plus, it pisses me off when it's implied that this is a generational issue. Father Knows Best and Leave It To Beaver were no more accurate representations of "The good ol' days" than Rescue Me is of fire and EMS. We have to step away from the fantasy, we have to excise the bullshit, and then we can truly begin to resolve problems with morals and ethics. Until then all of the self righteous blather is simply more of the exact same problem, right? Dishonesty? Dwayne

I earned the negative rating it is not linked to this post but rather me. It wasnt easy to get this rating it required alot of effort and I get really upset when someone agrees with me and gives me a positive rating which ruins the whole thing. I was at -21 just a few days ago and 3 rude dogs went and ruined it by giving me positive feedback. As far as cheating on anything the old saying that 'your only cheating yourself' is true, education uses testing to measure whether the approved subject matter has been presented well and that the students have retained it to a level considered acceptable to the governing body in charge of the discipline studied. It is not the end all of the curriculum just a tool to measure teaching skills and student retention. When students fail a course the person at fault is not only the student but the teacher. If you teach a course and your students do the bare minimum or cheat to get by you either did not impress upon the students the importance of your course or did not weed out the students that were not suited for your course.

Is the rating on this post a joke or something that I'm just not getting? I don't see the issue with this post, or with the last few that I've read from joesph, yet each one has been marked with a negative. I can't remember if his posts have been terrible or if he's done something here to make enemies, but if so, how is he supposed to improve if someone is just going to follow him around kicking him in the balls regardless of his post quality? Whoever put the negative on this post, can you raise your hand and explain why you chose to do so? I think this post is spot on..I'm curious what I'm missing. And I think he's right. I think most people do take this as a joke, as I always have, and as the creators of the test do. It's always the same test, with the same questions, in the same order with no attempt whatsoever to create any type intelligent, interactive way of learning it, nor a secure way to be tested for it. Why do you all truly expect others to take the test more seriously than they've been taught to? The creators don't take it seriously or they'd make some effort to create a relevant test, your employers don't take it seriously or they'd do more than say, "Get this done and turn in your card." And I'm really the only one here that's ever thought about cheating?? Really?? No one here has ever told a lie?? Which of course is just another type of cheating. I can't think of a time when I've wanted to cheat to get something I didn't need, but there were a million times going through school that I was confused, exhausted, or just simply wanted to see a good grade above my name that I'd thought about it. I didn't, but not because I'm somehow morally superior to todays younger generation, but because I grew up in a time when cheating was very, very difficult and the consequences for doing so were so amazingly humiliating that I can't imagine putting myself in the position to face them today. We like to believe that we are morally superior to those that might cheat, but c'mon folks, these kids are growing up in a world that many of us that are getting a little older help to create. They are operating on the morals and ethics that they've been taught by us and those that came before. They are applying those morals and ethics in a world that allows it. They are what they were created to be, and they remain that way because we, as a society, allow it. We are all frustrated by people that cheat, and the society that allows them to continue to do so, but to say that we just can't imagine any reason to cheat, any reason to lie, well, that's just bullshit. This problem needs to be addressed, but to address it it needs to be indentified and understood from a realistic, honest point of view, and that takes some introspection that just won't be found in a thread full of "I don't get it? Can you imagine why someone would actually lie? Hmmmm, no, from my morally pure perspective I just can't make the leap to such an completely alien concept...." Hell, right now I've got Safari spell checking as I type instead of taking the time to proof read and use a dictionary. I've chosen the easy way to accomplish something that I find unworthy of my time at this moment, but I'm sure no one else would stoop to doing such a thing.... Great argument, but the problem needs honest attention with a serious dose of introspection...Trying to douche it away with self righteous indignation just isn't going to get it done..

As stated at 1:28...

A friend of mine wants to start a medivac/search and rescue service in our area. The area that I live in is about 1-1.5 hour(s) away from the nearest available helicopter service. What we need are ideas on setting the service up. What kind of radio would we need to purchase to put in the helicopter to allow the pilot to talk to fire/rescue? Our area works on high band and low band radio's. The state EMS frequency is 155.340 which is the frequency that would mainly be used to talk to one another. What kind of thermal imaging camera could be mounted on the helicopter for the pilot to use? What kind of spotlight? I need any information that anyone can offer. We really would like to start this thing up here. It would really be to our advantage to have a closer service to fly critical patients out to the nearest trauma center (which is 2 hours away by ambulance). Any and all information would be helpful.

This is an interesting view point and I did consider it. However, people go to the ER for non-emergent issues because they are ignorant. This is my view point formed by working in a high call volume system and also working in a trauma center ER in an inner city ghetto. I have for the most part stopped trying to educate people, as I see it as a lost cause and a waste of my breath. Most of these people will never get it and don't care to. You stubbed your toe 2 days ago? Ok lets go and get this run over with....

And I'm going to say the same of you, I'll explain below. Then, and I mean this to be honest, not offensive, your class failed. The older generation owes so much more to the attitude of the younger generation today than they are willing to admit. The science of teaching techniques and strategies has evolved incredibly over the last century yet these 'new' tools lay rusting in the shed of ego and tradition. So many want to teach, yet very few actually want to be judged on their teaching. The older generation is firmly entrenched in THEIR sense of entitlement to continue to do things the way they've always been done despite the fact that they have been, and continue to be, proved to unproductive. They retain their ability to puff out their chests at their academic prowess by blaming children for being poor students. If you've put yourself in the role of teacher, then you are responsible for creating a curriculum and an environment where children learn. Not where they 'should' learn, but where they do. If you've failed in your task, they should not be held fully responsible, though of course that is an ego shattering concept for those that like to brag of 'teaching.' If you've created a class that is so disengaging that students wish to leave it, you fail. If you choose to blame genetics, youth, video games, or television for the fact that you are unable to teach, then you fail again. Can you see that your sense of entitlement to call failure success, to call stagnation virtue, to deflect blame instead of embracing it as a catalyst for change, is no less pathologic than the sense of entitlement that you blame on the kids? If you didn't before, yet have the aptitude and critical thinking skills necessary to be influencing young minds, then you should certainly be able to see it now I think. These issues won't get better until we put ourselves back into the equation. Until we quit saying, "Good God, 'they' can't/won't/don't want to learn!" And instead begin by saying, "Holy shit..what have I been thinking??" It's not my intention to bust your chops brother. I'm not trying to be insulting, but clear. Thanks for taking the time to share your opinions. I look forward to your thoughts. Dwayne

Dart, Here is the REAL, NO BULLSHIT deal answers to your questions... FIRST AND FOREMOST...... 1. You and Your Friend need to write a BUSINESS PLAN for your future Helicopter Service.... For Example I am currently in the process of starting a fixed wing operation with a friend of mine, and the business plan we wrote was 35 pages, with 15 of those pages being nothing but FINANCIAL INDICATORS. This will be the HEART and SOUL of the operation and not something that can be thrown together quickly or done mediocre. For example, 1. Personnel Plan 2. Profitability % 3. Activity Ratios 4. Leverage Ratios 5. Liquidity Ratios 6. EBITDA 7. Debt to Asset Ratios 8. Revenue Forecast - Broken down monthly 9. Revenue Forecast - yearly 10. Break Even Analysis for 1st year 11. Pro Forma P&L ( Profit and Loss) Statements, Must Pro Forma out 5 years 12. Gross Margin & Monthly Profit 13. Pro Forma Cash Flow - 5 years Projected 14. Pro Forma Balance Sheet - 5 years = Assets & Liabilities / Shareholders Equity 15. Sensitivity Analysis The above was just my financial section alone, and it took us months just to write the plan, revise, revise, revise, etc......We are now in the process of dealing with Angel Investors for our initial startup funds..... With your limited experience in the air-medical industry and limited formal business education, I would say you have your work cut out for you indeed, not impossible, but, you're going to need the right help from the right people.... Once, you get this done and perfected, you then need to decide if you are going with a specific Vendor, and whose Part 135 certificate you will be using. This is also something that must be planned for, as the FAA just doesnt give these out like candy....They are VERY EXPENSIVE and time consuming to get one....and without one, you do not fly anywhere..... Now, after those things are done, you must think about aircraft type, Single vs Twin, VFR vs IFR, Single Pilot vs Dual Pilot, Medical Crew Configuration, training, continuing education, maintenance, Night Vision Goggles..., etc..... Where are you going to base the helicopter, Hospital, airport, or some other option? Medical Director....You must have a medical director for the program. These are just some of the very basic things you must have done to even remotely have a chance to get this thing off the ground......again, Not impossible, but highly improbable with what I have read so far..... Let us know more. John Wade, MBA, CCEMT-P, FP-C

I don't quite understand how telling a 20 year old kid that theres much more to starting an air-evac service than just getting a helicopter and a couple of radios. Sometimes people need reality checks. Dream big? Sure! I dream big all the time. I have thought up enough plans to start an ALS service for my area I could probably fill a 3" binder with the proposal. The problem comes in 2 forms: First, getting the funding, people, and equipment to start the service. Second, and argueably the hardest of the two, convincing people the status quo isn't good enough. Convincing fire chiefs, ambulance chiefs, the public, politicians. If you will check this post: You will see there is a well thought out answer to his problems. Also there are several other posts here that are offering a solution and answers to the question. Is one or two out of line? Maybe. But I don't see how you can sit here and defend an obvious whackerish question. This question came from someone whose only contributions to this forum are asking 1) How to install a radio in his truck 2) How to install grill lights in his truck I am sorry, but with a history like that, and 5 posts to his name, of course a post like that will be called out for the wackerness.

I agree with spenac. In any industry or company it had to start with one person asking a question and comming up with an idea to answer it. happy

I don't even know if $30 million in capital would handle your start up. Theres a good reason that most medical helicopter services are either branches of a larger transportation group (i.e. PHI Air Med) or a division of a hospital. Do you really need Air Med in your area? Do you have documented problems with it? Here is my suggestion to you. Go back 5 years and find documentation showing a need for Air Med Get all the other jurisdictions in your area to do the same Schedule meetings with the service rep for all of the Air Med companies that service NY Show them the documentation you have in an easy to understand no-nonsense manner. These people don't want to waste their time with hill-jacks saying "Heliocopters are cool, man!" Sit back and see what happens.

If the OP intended this to be a joke, his timing sucks. While the questions are somewhat...distant, I will provide some information on the topic. We might just have a genuine dreamer here or someone who has a friend with a helicopter he wants to put to good use. Of course if one did have a helicopter, he probably would already know where to look for some of the answers. If nothing else, some of the links might provide some reading for those who have an interest in Air Medical Transport. Here are the CAMTS guidelines which includes references to communication equipment or at least where to look with the FAA. http://data.memberclicks.com/site/nemsp/AccreditationStandards_-_7th_Edition_2006_1_.pdf Recent ammendments to the guidelines can be found here: http://www.nemspa.org/mc/page.do?sitePageId=91563&orgId=nemsp'>http://www.nemspa.org/mc/page.do?sitePageId=91563&orgId=nemsp CAMTS website http://www.camts.org/ NEMSPA (you will also find the NTSB recommendations on this site) http://www.nemspa.org/ READ all safety recommendations. In case you haven't noticed there have been several medical helicopter crashes resulting in the death of providers and patients. Of course the helicopter, licensing, insurance, crew and equipment are just a few issues. You will also have to petition your local government agencies for landing zone permits at the hospital or where you decide to land the helicopter. You may have to apply for a specific certificate of need for this type of service in your area. You will have to work out billing and taxation issues for IFT/scene response. You will have to get a cert for IFT and if you do scene response you will need one for that as well. You will have to petition for funding to maintain a LZ at your hospital. This may have to be done with the board of the hosptal, the local government officials and if any tax dollars are used from the area residents, a special election may need to be held for approval. This may also apply to have the tax payers pick up the costs of transporting the uninsured. One more serious note, make sure all of the employees flying get a copy of this: http://www.flightweb.com/filemgmt/datafiles/EMS_preparedness_guide_v3.pdf Of course the information is of value to ground EMS as well.

What?

Is this serious? Honestly? Not trying to be a jack ass. Do either of you have any sort of aviation experience at all? You don't just stick your motorola radio ontop of the helicopter dash and say you are good like you do on a F-150. There are companies that deal exclusivly in providing for public safety aviation. Assuming you are serious in starting this buisness your better bet would be to court the companies, get contacts with sales reps, and then research the materials to find out what you will need.

You raise an interesting point of perspective. While I'm sure we've all been tempted to cheat, (whether we actually admit it or not), it's what we do with that temptation that creates the division. Sure, I've been tempted to cheat, but I don't give into that temptation because I'm not going to learn that way. I've never accepted the explanation of "Because that's the way it is." or "Because that's the way we do things around here." as an acceptable answer to questions I may have. "Because I said so!" caused me more aggravation as a kid than I care to admit! Because of this thirst for logical explanations, it's often caused me problems in many areas of my life. I’m sure that there’s a psychological explanation for this, but this thread isn’t about why I am the way I am. As far as using Safari to spell check as you type, I usually end up proof reading what I post, and then if I'm still having doubts, I run the whole post through Microsoft Word. Yes, there are days I don’t feel like being bothered by it, and you can tell by the posts I’ve had to edit. I think Dust said it more eloquently and succinctly than I could here: Am I perfect? Far from it, and I’d only be deluding myself to even entertain that notion. We all have a ‘moral compass’, and while some may be more skewed than others, all have been shaped by our upbringing. Those of us that were raised in a more ‘strict environment’ or had more parental involvement than most kids today have, will have a stronger sense of right and wrong.

That's why I'm an Independent. Nobody can criticise my party! Myself, I criticise anyone who belongs to any party.

boeingb13 Group: EMT City Sponsor Posts: 99 Joined: 27-August 06 Gender:Male Location:Jacksonville Florida Interests:surfing,music Reputation: -7Neutral Sent Today, 07:00 PM That was cute, my info I believe is in my profile, if not i'll post it. Whats the last name, since were not hiding. The tone of your messages is beginning to get really, really unfunny. All future messages will be posted publicly and forwarded to Admin. Any with a threatening tone will be forwarded to law enforcement. You need to think very carefully before you start playing the, "Fuck with me and I'll hunt you down" game shithead. You think I'm froggy online? Give me some reason to think that you're actually stupid enough to show up on my family's doorstep... Fair warning. Dwayne

I don't understand why you do not understand why they were punished: 1. They were on-duty. Being hospital-based employees, I imagine they fall under the hospital's policies and procedures, which probably clearly state that you can not "play" on the computer while you are at work (especially if it was the hospital's computers). If the clerk in the billing office can not surf facebook while she is on-duty, then the EMS employees can not either. 2. They used images of the hospital property and their uniforms in the pics. Big NO-NO. And I seriously doubt that their posts on the internet were very professional, or painted the hospital in a professional light. 3. When you are at work, you should be at work. I applaud those departments who do not let you carry a cellphone or personal laptop while on-duty. Play on your own time, be a professional at work.

I have an extensive background in aviation systems and regulatory complaince and this is the stupidest idea I have ever heard. We're not talking about some good ole agriculture boys running around with a little wee single engine plane doing top dressing or spraying thier crops. The ideas you propose would cost literally millions of dollars and require an extensive team of people to run the operation as well as thousands of pages of documentation, policy, standards and processess all of which have to approved by the FAA. Oh and to answer your original question, the pilots' fly the helicopter it is the crewmembers job to talk with the ground services. Generally they would use a VHF system, something in the 400MHz range. You may wish to look into the feasibility of dual pilot IFR.

Wow there have really gotten to be a lot of jerks on here. Dart is asking some questions, why not answer those asked and then politely give him some ideas to help his chances of success. With the responses given here it is no wonder this site is quickly losing its reputation as a quality place to hang out and discuss EMS and real life. Dart I apologize for the asinine comments you have received and I hope you the best in your quest. I am sorry I have no knowledge of flight so have no way to help.

I'll make an agreement with you. I'll push for people to stop using the "R" word.. When black people stop thinking it's not okay for white people to use the "N" word, but it's still okay for them to use the "N" word. eg.. Nobody can use either one, in any context, music, print, film, etc. Both, will be forever censored.

Side note: That word is really falling out of favor in a big way, it is offensive to those with disabilities and the ones who care about them. I realize it is still pretty widely used (especially outside Canada) but being in healthcare I just wanted to note it.

It's not really a dumb question... just, retarded.

LMAO Careful- your tin foil beanie is slipping...

Get one of those Vietnam era choppers from federal surplus and run a dustoff service.. using old, retired, corpsmen and combat medics, with no modern training. Say that you choose not to recognize the fact that it's 2010, rather than 1968.

I will sell you an EC-135 complete with all equipment. I will provide pilots, crew and mechanics. I will also provide a base and hangar. All I need from you, is 300 million dollars.

I will be the pilot.. just pay for my flight training.

Folks say, the only dumb question, is the one that is never asked. Well, I think we've proven that theory to be false.