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Ok Dust, put down the thai sticks and look closely at the name of the deceased in both articles: Curtis Mitchell, both took place in Pittsburgh during the same snow storm, amazingly enough, the same guy in both stories; died of the same thing in both stories. Could it be that the medics were initially suspended pending investigation? They were cleared by the State, and hung by the organization they worked for. Earth to Major Dust, it's time to come back to reality.... Two Pittsburgh Paramedics Face Discipline in Snowstorm Death 2010 Mar 23 PITTSBURGH — At least two Pittsburgh paramedics will be disciplined in the death of a man who waited 30 hours for an ambulance during a powerful snowstorm last month. Paramedics union President Anthony Weinmann said Monday two union members have received disciplinary notices in the death of 50-year-old Curtis Mitchell on Feb. 7. Mitchell died after he and his girlfriend placed 10 calls to 911 seeking help for his abdominal pain during a winter storm that dropped 20 inches of snow on the city. Weinmann says three ambulances aborted to calls to Mitchell's home at the direction of dispatchers or EMS chiefs. The dispatchers' union says no members are facing punishment. Pittsburgh Public Safety Director Mike Huss says a news conference on the city's investigation has been scheduled for 1:30 p.m. Tuesday. Story 1 Pa. medic fired after man's snowstorm death Curtis Mitchell died waiting 30 hours for help during bad weather despite repeated calls to 911 The Associated Press PITTSBURGH — A Pittsburgh emergency medical worker has been fired following the death of a man who waited 30 hours for help during a snowstorm despite repeated calls to 911. Mayor Luke Ravenstahl's office says Josie Dimon was fired Thursday. Her dismissal stems from the death of 50-year-old Curtis Mitchell during a February storm that dropped nearly two feet of snow on the city. Mitchell had a history of pancreatic inflammation. He and his girlfriend called 911 10 times seeking help for his abdominal pain, but medics couldn't reach their home because of the snow. He was asked to walk four blocks to an ambulance but couldn't make it. Three other medics were suspended. The paramedics union has said they would fight the suspensions. A phone message left Friday for Dimon hasn't been returned. Story 2 Since you replied to both threads about the same thing: -5 for not using search function -5 for not taking your alzheimer's medications -5 for not admitting your faux pas -10 for not reading both stories and picking up on that 'tiny detail' that both articles were about the same incident. Aren't you one of the ones that is always screaming about paying attention to details? Gotcha, buddy!

What are you guys smoking? It's NOT THE SAME STORY! Suspensions are not the same thing as a firing. This is a whole new story.

If cops don't allow you to get to the patient have officer sign refusal. Then document the heck out of it.

I'm thinking that if they were dispatched to the car, which I'm led to believe based on the statement that fire may also be brought in, then they belong in the suit, right? They had a duty to act on the pts behalf at that point I believe. Either way, I'm not being turned around by PD without an assessment, or supervisor involvement anyway. Why would PD stay on the side of the road for an hour? Not criticizing as I don't know if this would be normal for the area or not. If fire and/or the EMS crew allowed the cop to deliver their assessment to them then I hope they all leave court without their balls/ovaries, respectively. Dwayne

I can't agree. Although there is plenty of blame to go around -- and it should -- that does not mean that she herself should not also accept responsibility for her personal FAIL. I'm not of the theory that if everyone doesn't get punished, then no one should get punished. If you fail, your punishment is irregardless of other failures or their punishment. Two words: Personal Responsibility.

The baby was at a hospital which offered a more stable environment for the birth than the back of an ambulance even if the hospital staff were not comfortable with it. As a hospital, they are still required to have a code cart with the necessary equipment and staff with at least the basic NRP cert as well as some expertise in their professions. The mother was in labor with a preterm infant. You have two patients with the potential need to resuscitate both of them depending on the cause of the preterm labor. The Paramedic knew this was a 25 week preterm infant about to be born and even in ideal situations that is a sick baby which requires special care. Just a little knowledge of NRP is not enough for the acceptance of this patient. Preparation for the birth of the infant must be given consideration for a 60 mile trip by ambulance or any mode of transportation. You are leaving a hospital that at least provides some of the necessary equipment and staff. The American Academy of Pediatrics has guidelines that suggests stabilization and transport should be done by a specialized team. In this area there are at least 2 teams that have OB/Neonatal teams who can also get access to a helicopter if needed and could probably reach the referring hospital in the same time it would take the ground ambulance to have been called and run real fast to Orlando. The specialty physicians at the receiving hospital who are involved with the transport teams can generally talk even the most freaked out general practice doctor in an ED or tiny ICU through some emergent steps to stabilize the mother and baby until the team arrives. However, the details concerning how much conversation was done with the hospital in Orlando are sketchy or if they were given a chance to send their team by EVAC already starting to roll. I believe the other hospital, Halifax, which was the first destination is still just a Level 2 NICU. AAP website with some good information: http://www.aap.org/ In this situation the mother and baby ended up at another little general hospital emergently because the ambulance diverted and the Children's hospital still had to come for the baby. The sending physician(s) should not have been the one making the decision as to what was best for this patient and her soon to be born baby for transport. The physician(s) may not have known the abilities of the Paramedics or were led to believe transport was no problem either due to greed, ego or lack of adequate training/education/experience to where they didn't know how little they know. Diesel can not be relied on to treat a preterm baby especially when you are accepting a known situation and taking a patient from what might already be a more stable environment. This is where lack of adequate education/training/experience will allow emotions to take over and poor judgement may come to play. This may also make for a very unsafe transport for the crew, patient, baby and the public with the use of L&S for 60 miles. And you know the legal ambulance speed may not be adhered to. Even some Flight and CCT transports must be aborted at the sending facility due to lack of appropriate equipment or expertise as well as a very unstable patient and no means to stabilize them for a safer transport. Neonatal/Pedi Specialty teams may spend hours at the sending facility doing what they would do in their own ICU with their protocols and guidelines to stabilize the baby before transport. They are in no hurry to move unless surgical intervention is needed because they are the higher level of care with the equipment and expertise. But, even for the cardiac babies that will require surgery, they will not go to the OR until certain other problems are stabilized. Here is the rewrite for the Florida statutes that was initiated after this incident. The accepting physician with specialty expertise will now determine how to transport and not the sending physician who just wants the patient to go some place fast or an overly eager ambulance service and crew. http://www.doh.state.fl.us/DEMO/EMS/RulesStatutes/RulesPDFS/NoticeChangePublishedFAW12112009.pdf This may have also come about from some of the several other incidents with poor outcomes due to a scoop and run mentality that is practiced by some ALS/CCT and even Flight teams which are not all created equal. In EMS some are quick to criticize the EMT-B who does not call for an ALS intercept but then these same people will accept a CCT to where even as a Paramedic they are little more than an EMT-B when it comes to the level of expertise and skills required to move that patient safely from point A to point B. This situation is also not much different than the scenario thread, "Threw up and can`t breathe", DartmouthDave started with the unstable airway. Disclaimer: I have no direct involvement in this particular case but it has initiated several conversations and changes in Florida as well as the OB/Neo/Pedi medical professions. The AAP has also been taking notes but then this is the type of situation they have tried to prevent from occurring for many years.

Dust, that has to be one of the most unfounded comments you have ever made. What the hell does that have to do with anything???? And where do you draw the line? Should we not let men into EMS, because they might see a pregnant woman and not be able to deal with it, or because they might joke about the nakedf breasts of the day? Do we not let fathers into EMS for the same reason that we don't want mothers in EMS? Do we not let people who are not parents into EMS because they haven't had children? How about those who have had a traumatic event in their lives? Maybe someone who has just broken up with their boyfriend/girlfriend shouldn't be allowed to respond to domestic dispute calls... How about someone who has spent time in Iraq or Afghanistan because they might have PTSD? That comment was unprofessional. I realize that it is your opinion only, and as your opinion, you are entitled to it, just as others are entitled to their opinion that you are completely out of line with that thinking. If someone can do the job well, they can do the job well. I don't care if they are a mother or not. Oh yeah - before anyone posts that I have my feathers ruffled because I am a mom... I'm not.

Okay, let me then amend it to say that parents in general should not be in EMS. Not just mothers. All of my best partners have been single males with no children. I stick with what works best for me.

Lets not forget police have the right to "recall" us, and if they say were not needed we often difer to them.

This will probably be a long drawn out rant from hell. I just need to vent and decompress so I can relax on my down time. Just came off my weekly second 6hr 1800-0000. Started off bad ended bad and was FUBARed in between. Get to the building for rig check. During rig check find one jump (go) bag was missing BP cuff. Where it disapeared to who knows, checked the call sheets and the rig hadn't been used since the day before (my other shift) and I know I put it back. Must be with all the missing socks in the world, either that or the leprachun needed to check Nessie's vitals before going to Bigfoot's house in the UFO. Anyways.. go to the supply closet and get new cuff, no big deal. Further inspection shows no darn medium gloves!! Check supply closet NONE. At least I knew I have boxes of them at home, no big deal I will just grab them if we get dispatched. Everything else was SOP. Get home and thow a box of gloves in my truck so I wouldn't forget. Turn up the scanner and start listening, waiting for the tones but hoping for a *#&%! shift. Must have been a new dispatcher because within the first hour of the shift 3 dispatches went out but to the wrong crews (some were already on scenes or were on a general) Figured OK nothing major but will be expecting wierd things. First tones come out and its a stroke call 3rd one in 3 shifts, not liking this but at least its the third so should be good for awhile. No major issues on the call except for the rampant complaing from the drunken family memebers that we are not moving fast enough. Bariatric patient, 2nd stroke, left side paralysis. Moving as fast as we could but awaited FD for lift assist. ALS meets at scene and decided pt needed immediate intervention, so instead of where the family wanted to go (ED over 1hr away), ALS advised closest appropriate facility, which was only 15min away but across the state line. (FYI this ED is normally used by us for time sensitive pts that are not trauma. It is in our local protocols). Well that decision leads to the husband attempting to ride on the hood of the rig. like I said earlier drunken family members. PD gets involved (already onscene as SOP in my area) and we transport w/o further incident. I didnt stick around to see what PD did. On the ride back we all get a laugh about the husband trying to ride with us LOL I also laugh alittle harder because of remebering the JEM's article about the wife and husband rig accident. Get back home and have a bite to eat with the wife. Literally a bite before tones. Psych transfer of a bi-polar teen POing his parents. Nothing remarkable with this call just a basic taxi ride. Get back home again and finish my dinner which is now cold and needed to be reheated. Tasted better the first time. Oh well what can you do. Finish my dinner and go sit down on my chair. Dog decides it hasn't seen me in awhile and reverts to its puppy age and tries to become a lap dog. 80lbs later while now in my lap and causing my shears and kelly's to dig into my thigh I just sit there and laugh. Hey sometimes its those moments that lighten my heart. Wife sure laughed. Checked my thigh no penatrating injuries so good to go. Nothing for a little while so I get comfortable. Bad idea, few seconds later toned out for a fire stand-by. Get on scene and canceled. Don't mind those calls too much but after getting comfortable wish it was a real call. Get back home then nothing. Ah relief time goes by and its time to grab some ZzZs while I can. Wake up before end of shift, dont know why just did. Look at the clock and see 10min to go. Think to myself not a super bad shift could have been worse. EMT gods are funny like that, just when I thank them for a decent shift, they notify the dispatcher. We get toned for a LOC but breathing patient. Get the adress and see its in the other squads area. Double check with dispatch, yup its our call other squad is tied up on 2 MVAs and a LOC w/ diffulty breathing. OK no problem 10-23 my rig and await the rest of my ever so happy to see me crew. "10 min to go really" is the now standard line coming through the door. Then hearing the location the jibberish starts in the back. OK full crew now 10-8 to scene. Dispatch says hold on. HUH?!? Hold on? OK awaiting further instructions. Other squad is proceding to the scene instead, they were closer and on the way back from the ED from the MVA. OK sounds great, start backing the rig in. Everyone is elated then we hear dispatch again. Rig 54 (dont laugh please) proceed to *blank* 10-0 involving motorcycle w/ MINOR injuries. We roll but thinking about the call. Motorcycle MVA with MINOR injuries? Maybe the guy just laid the bike down and we are looking at road rash. Get on scene guy is under another car looking like a rag doll. MINOR injuries who made THAT call. Notify dispatch we need FD for extracation and find out if ALS is available. ALS is available but 45 min out. OK dispatch ALS. Hell I would rather have ALS inroute and cancel then wait for them. FD shows up airbags the car we get in there to see what up. Guy is only minor injuries. Complaing of wrist pain. We take full C-spine and board him out. Everything else seems fine, airway is patent, vitals normal, RTA shows nothing else. Splint the wrist and get him in the rig, cut the cloths nothing. Helmet still in place we arrive ED w/o incident. Get back home. Have to be at my regular job in 2hrs. Great, no sleep and a long drive ahead. Well Im here at my normal job. Still tired but at least Im done for the next 96hrs. Thanks for letting me vent. I know it probably pales in comparision to some of your shifts and to some they would swap with me any day. I get that and I know it sounded trivial but felt like hell to me. As a squad we are not used to this many calls in one shift or in consecutive days. Last shift had 3 calls. 7 calls in two days when last month I had 6 calls all month seemed to be alot. If I count the weekend rotation w/ the plane crash we hit 12 calls in 5 days. 2 months of calls in less then a week. Its alot too me. Especially now I am not just a driver but an EMT and being involved with the patients, adds to the stress and emotions. Thanks folks again for letting me rant like this. It really helped. Stay safe everyone! Please note the paragraph breaks I inserted, even if not textbook paragraphs, you always break it up otherwise no one will ever read it. If I were not a mod, I would not have read it...AK