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Vent, I won't speak for JP (he seems to be able to do that just fine) but I am well aware of our ability to save 23, 24, 25 week wheezers and seizers. I am not arguing the point of whether this baby was viable. My first comment to you was to provide a source for your statistics. If you are going to provide statistics to further your arguement the onus is on you to provide the reference. I am not saying your statistics are wrong, you just need to provide a reference. I think 95.2246% of the people on this site would agree. I appreciate the fact that you provided the link to the case in the FL database but since I do most of my posting at work, I do not have nearly enough time to read through the entire case (Only in the American legal system can someone create a document several hundred pages long and call it a brief). I am just a little confused as to who some of the players are, where they are and what their level of care is. Without that info it is hard for me to pass judgement. Now, if this kid was coding and he wasn't intubated in a timely fashion then the crew should be held accountable. I am in no way comparing the education of a paramedic to that of a doctor. No, we do not rotate through the NICU but we do rotate through L&D. This was a no win situation either way you cut it. I think it is pretty safe to assume that there is no way of doing adequate fetal monitoring in this ER. For all we know, this kids is having decels and needs to be sectioned immediately due to a lack of oxygen. So, while this kid is slowly dying, are we going to wait for a full transport team to be assembled and to come from an hour away, in effect doubling the time it will take for the kid to be sectioned? On the other hand we can have a medic unit respond and transport the mother to a hospital with the appropriate level of care in half the time. You asked, "if your patient required a Specialist OB consult, would you settle for a GP because the OB was busy? Would you feel you did right by your patient?" No, I would not want to talk to the GP, I need an OB and so does this kid. He does not need an ER doctor either, he needs an OB. I have no problems taking care of him should he decide it's time to come out but he should be with the person who is most appropriate for him, the OB and the perinatologist. The best way for him to get to them is to get in the ambulance and go, not sit in the ER where I can't do anything to help. No ER doc is going to section this woman. The only indication for an ER doc to perform a c/s is maternal demise. We are just going to sit there and watch the baby die. It sucks, but that is the way it is. There is (or should be) a standard level of care when you call for a medic unit. When I call for a transfer I don't ask, "Is Bill on? He's not good with peds so I don't think I want him to do the transport." I know the pt needs medic level care and it is up to the state and the company that hires them to make the determination if that medic meets the appropriate training/education. If I call for a medic unit, I assume that they can intubate 0-120 year olds, if not they should not be in the field. If time allows, I will try to pull up the case and read through it since it is hard to debate the specifics in this case without knowing the facts.

As much as you'd like to pawn this one off as another 'firefighter gone bad', you'll have to take a pass on it. According to even the headline, he was a FORMER firefighter, which means that even they didn't want him. In this case, he was just another dirtbag thief.

Ok, let's stop right here and I'll try to make a couple things very clear.... At no time did I imply, intimate or otherwise state/infer that she DESERVED to die; nor did I even hint at the idea that this may have been a 'suicide by ambulance' event. All too often in this forum, people are ready to castigate without getting all the facts. I merely pointed out that MAYBE she was a contributing factor in this tragedy. At no point did I condone the driver being held faultless, nor did I advocate the notion that this was an intentional act on her part. In fact, I DID acknowledge the driver's failure to follow policy while backing the vehicle up. Maybe I wasn't as clear with the intent of my post as I could have been. But to automatically brand the driver as the 'no good son of a bitch that intentionally ran granny over', is just as wrong. We could 'what if' this till the cows come home, it changes nothing.

Is it prejudice when your opinion is based on evidence? Just sayin'.

Prejudice is different from intolerance.

For someone who doesn't tolerate intolerance you sure have a prejudice.

Ok, I'll grant that the driver violated company policy by backing up without a spotter. But..... You'd think that in 79 years that woman would have realized that when vehicles are backing up, you get the hell out of the way! OSHA requires commerical vehicles to have backup alarms on them. If you hear that telltale 'beep beep beep', that means GET OUT OF THE WAY, SOMETHING IS GONNA MOVE! If she hasn't figured that out, (along with always pass in front of a vehicle with limited rear view), it makes you really stop and wonder how she got to 79! While the driver was negligent in following company policy, the woman was also negligent in using common sense! I highly doubt that the ambulance was backing up at a high rate of speed, so I'd be willing to bet that even at 79 years old, she had not only warning that the truck was backing up, but also some warning that the vehicle was about to move.......

complacency is a bitch

Down boy! Down!

The question should be, how long after taking the medication, is it safe to administer a nitrate. Another question is; Is the patient just prescribed the medication, or when was the last time he took it. It's not a medication one would take every day.. And no, I don't use it. Knock on wood, I don't require any medications.

And, as always, minus five for posting an ALS topic in the BLS forum.

You have zero control over it. There is no "letting" it get to you. It just does. One of the many reasons that mothers shouldn't be in EMS.

Uhhh... I believe that is exactly what I have been saying. And that would be two DIFFERENT stories, complete with different dates.