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Like Doc I am not in the US (New Zealand) and agree with him. A 120 hour course in advanced first aid or a 24 week part-time course in "Ambulance practice" (and I use the term liberally) is not adequate for the job of being a prehospital medical professional. Unfortunately New Zealand is unable to get its thumb out its ass and do away with "volunteers" and move towards a totally college-level education system unlike Australia, Canada and the UK (which we oddly have done for Paramedic and Intensive Care Paramedic). Define "quality care" for me please? Is it "quality" care if you have to wait 20 or 30 minutes for advanced pain relief because you don't even carry entonox? Is it "quality" care for somebody to wait with crushing chest pain because you cannot give GTN? How many times a minute would you ventilate an astmatic patient who is catatonic and respiratory arrested, 10, 12, 15? Is it "quality" care if you cause them to have a PEA arrest? Did I say that you personally were a disgrace? No, I did not so don't take it so personally. Define "great learning experience" for me? The driver only concept is a disgrace. It is disgraceful that system administrators, funders and operatives consider it appropriate in a first world nation, in the twenty first century, to staff a prehospital medical resource with somebody who has no independant clinical ability and is only there to drive. Lets say there is you, the EMT, and Wheels the Driver. Can Wheels do CPR? Can he help you apply a traction splint? What about extricate somebody from a car using a KED? How about treat the other person in the car because there are only the two of you there? This is simmilar to what the UK has done with its Emergency Care Assistant program in that it places a huge onus on the crew member who has some actual clinical ability because they must take charge of a scene almost solo and attempt to supervise or instruct Wheels the Driver in helping them while making decisions around patient assessment and treatment. That is not safe clinical practice and is a huge risk for clinical error.

I've seen kids that require no more 'discipline' than simply raising your voice to show displeasure, and I've seen kids that you can beat the hell out of, and it will change nothing. So which method is 'better'? I've been on both ends of the corporal punishment scene. I've had one parent who was abusive with it, and another that only used it when nothing else seemed to be effective. I can say this about the the total way I was raised. I don't use drugs, I've never been to prison, I'm not an alcoholic and I've actually attempted to make something of my life. Is this the direct result of corporal punishment, or because I had at least one parent that stuck their nose in my 'business' and made sure I was doing things the way they should be done? It's hard to say for sure. It might have been one or the other....or a combination of both. As far as disciplining MY children, I'm one of those people that try to make the punishment fit the 'crime'. Corporal punishment isn't the only 'tool' we have as parents. My views on coroporal punishment aside, I don't feel that it's a teacher/principal or other school official's job to discipline my child. As a parent, that is my RESPONSIBILITY. There's a quote attributed to George Carlin that goes something like this: "It doesn't take a whole village to raise a child. It DOES however, take parents to get off their lazy ass and actually give a damn!" As a mechanic, I fill my toolbox with all the proper tools to effectively repair and maintain my vehicle. As a parent, I must do the same thing to be able to effectively raise and guide my child. As the mechanic might pass the toolbox onto his/her children, we must do the same with our 'parenting toolbox'. For those that advocate corporal punishment for all offenses, this is all that the child will have in their 'parenting toolbox', and the cycle continues. I was strong enough to 'break the cycle' when it came to dealing with the kids in my life, (a former step daughter, and a son and daughter of my own). Sadly, there are parents out there that are only perpetuating this cycle.

Dust ED is 45 min ride away, ALS is responding from said ED, no waiting just intercept along the way. BTW ALS responds to most calls as per protocol, we are just far from the ED so usually BLS is onscene, packaged and in route before ALS gets half way. Dont knock the NJ vollies in their entirety, we do make good decisions, we just work with what we got.

I finally got around to reading this thread, and as I read, I found some posts I would like to respond to. JPINV posts: “Here's an idea. How about first we focus on getting teachers who know how to actually teach. One of my main issues with the concept of corporal punishment in schools is that there are too many idiots working in schools. ….(edit) ….. Just as there are too many parents who think that it is everyone's but their own job to raise their kids, there are too many little tyrants holding teaching positions to allow the schools to spank children.” I have heard horror stories of some educational systems where the teachers do not need more than a Grade 12 diploma to be able to teach. My hope is that is the exception, not the norm. We all know that there are poor teachers, just as there are poor doctors, and poor paramedics, and poor garbagemen (oops, that isn’t politically correct – “sanitation engineers”) JPINV, I do agree with your comment about “too many parents who think it is everyone’s but their own job to raise their kids.” I do not think that the ills of society can be completely dumped in the classroom. These children have parents, many of whom have no parenting skills because they themselves lived in homes where their parents did not provide structure or rules, so they can’t possibly instill that in their children. Teachers are in classrooms with how many students? How many of those students are special needs, non-english speaking, haven’t eaten in 2 days, or have other complications that interfere with learning, issues that came from home, and then were multiplied at school? And yet parents expect their child to be well-educated, well-read, and the model of society, when the school system is in disarray – how can we expect a teacher to do with 40 children what a parent can’t do with one? Yes, I agree with you, that there are teachers who are idiots – and there are teachers who want to discipline by hitting… but I do not think that those are in the majority, and they should be removed from the system. DwayneEMTP posted: “I agree that I need to understand it, not appreciate it, and what I understand is that it's failed. It's been proved to be a failure for almost 100 years, yet we continue to do things the same way. How about instead of holding a child responsible for the schools failure we create an educational system that doesn't make children so scared, bored, angry and frustrated that they need to exhibit these behaviors in the first place? How about if we hold the 'grown ups' responsible for the education of children instead of the children? Doesn't that seem to be a more logical, realistic approach to educating?” I agree to a point… however, nowhere in this post, do I see that the parents should take the majority of the responsibility., You did say that “Until we, as those with the physical/intellectual power, take responsibility, as a society, for our failures in raising and educating our children, nothing is going to change.” Yes, society should… but the largest responsibility remains with the parent. Now Dwayne, I think I know you well enough that you would agree with me that the parent has the most responsibility. I recall the threads on Obama health care, and the comments of “I had this child, it is my job to pay for their health care.” Should this same attitude not apply to their education, and turning these children into human beings who are conscientious, willing to work, and who respect themselves and others? Again, Dwayne, I suspect you will agree with me on this. We can jump up and down about schools and teachers all we want…. But the weight of the problem starts at home, and needs to be solved at home. Do we need paddling in schools? Should there be paddling in schools? Definitely NOT! We need parents who are willing to discipline their children, who are willing to spend time with their children, and who are role models for their children. We need families who value honesty and hard work, and consequences for bad behavior. We need parents who, instead of saying “it couldn’t possibly be my child, because he is such a good boy at home” to realize that their little golden child is quite possibly not so golden when their back is turned. We need parents who do more than throw money at their children instead of parenting. And, we need parents to support those teachers who are doing quality work, and parents who will speak up against teachers who break the will of students to learn through their own lack of control.

What ever happened to just being there, for the people, who need help?

I think the "driver only" concept is an absolute disgrace and a total cop out. Our fantastic twenty-four week part time trained "Ambulance Technician" is also a bit dodge if you ask me.

I try and treat you with respect spenac, but like this, too often you're putting forth bullshit. The, "For every expert you have I can find another one." is a cop out and beneath you. You can't, and you damned well know it. If you don't want to participate, fine. But don't be a chicken and try and put forth a non argument as an actual argument. Not a single person was fooled by your nonsense. Dwayne

Who gives a flying F what they need? If they need it, they need to get it. If they aren't competent to do so, then why are they responding to these incidents in the first place? Letting nonsense like this go without protest just feeds their already overblown egos. Time to draw the line. Not that I expect your employer to do so. Few have the guts to speak up.

http://www.emtcity.com/index.php/topic/18057-medical-helicopter-requirements/page__st__30 Moron.

I will not get drawn into this discussion and waste your time and more importantly my time as you and I both know as educated people for every so called expert you find for your opinion I can find one to back mine and this would never end. I will address again why I have a problem with you though. I have no problem with a person having a different opinion. Though I disagree with your opinion I choose not to attack you by calling you names. All I ask is that you refrain from personal attacks when you disagree. Post your opinion and include a so called experts statement. Good for you. But rather than doing that you choose to attempt school ground bully techniques and then follow up when called out with the above attempt to try and provoke. So now I have shown you and all the other readers of this forum proper respect in two ways: 1. Not wasted their time with numerous quotes that will have no bearing on their opinions as they have also made educated decisions and also have Bing. 2. I have shown you the respect of explaining a way you could improve without any insults what so ever. I will end now with no name calling unlike the way you chose to end. That is showing respect for your fellow human. Have a great day.

This is the crux of my issue. Your driver has "at least" the same training as a Wal-Mart or McDonald's employee. They're essentially an untrained bystanders whose competence as an assistant is only gained by exposure and guidance by another provider whose training is inadequate for the job they have to do.

HUH? An EMT-B is inadequatly trained to do their job? Sorry but thats just plain wrong on so many levels! Weren't you a B at some point in your profession? Not everyone has to be a paramedic to be a quality prehospital care provider!! Sorry but..... Sorry I was a disgrace while attending school at least I got a great learning experience before becoming certified.

Even more reason to have ALS on every ambulance. This is exactly what we're talking about. You shouldn't have to "work with what you have". Time to come into the '80's and have paramedics on all ambulances. It may hurt some people's feelings, but whatever. It is supposed to be about the patient. If a provider doesn't want to step up a few levels then step aside.