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Good questions, but I believe you will come to understand that you misunderstand some things about many volly systems. I work closely with out volly system here, and where you make your first mistake is believing that the majority of them are there to 'help their community' instead of simply trying to find the cheapest, laziest way to appear heroic. It's rare for me to come into contact with a volunteer that isn't wearing a 'Hardcore Firefighter!" T-shirt or some other such crap. They are, in my experience, for the most part, volunteering for perfectly selfish reasons and seem to have no regrets at all when they show up on scene with nothing to offer. And that's sad. I can show you why I have a lot of confidence that that is the case where this add is run by the words they chose to use in the ad... Why, if what these people want to do is serve their community in the best, most productive way possible, do even the people looking for volunteers know that they need to make it clear that all you need to do is run around your community with lights and sirens, and no worries! there's none of that silly 'learnin' involved. When someday I see a volly system that express their disappointmet over the fact that they don't get enough education, and have no requirements to learn unless the knowledge is hand fed to them, when we see some threads on the City of vollies asking how they can become more competent on their own, then I'll change my opinion. Not to mention, there is absolutely no way that I would ride with someone encouraged and then trained in this manner. They would gain a 'driver' but lose a medic on their calls. Not a great trade in most emergencies I think. Dwayne

I think you are missing the point on this thread. This thread isn't about being a better driver... it is that a service is getting volunteer drivers with no EMS training rather than staffing units with more educated providers. When many of us are working hard to not only educate new providers to be qualified and more than competent, and are also working to educate the public that we can do more than just drive, departments that staff like the one in the original post are doing nothing to advance the profession. Yes I realize you had commented that having a driver with 2 providers is a good idea, but I truly suspect that isn't the case with this service. So, instead of posting "you people need to find something more interesting to bitch about" maybe you could research this service a little more for those of us who are "just bitching" and provide us with confirmation that they are actually running 3 to a car. And, maybe you could explain to us how this service is improving care and improving EMS with this move. If you don't like the thread, or don't like the posting, you can ignore the thread, or you can provide valid arguments against the other posts, other than "you people need to find something more interesting to bitch about." Edited to add: I can hardly wait to see the negatives I get on this post.....

It's a bad idea because a CPR card does not make you "qualified" to drive an ambulance. I don't care if they're vollies or paid $100k a year. The driver is more liable to kill someone than any medic is, so s/he needs to be a professional, not a hobbyist who's in it for the lulz. Not to mention that the State of Texas will probably shut this idea down quite quickly when they get wind of it. Chances of them allowing a variance for a non-certified driver in a town that is quite capable of providing certified people are slim to none.

So far, I haven't seen anything about hating volunteers, just sub-standard providers. If that so happens to often be true of volunteer services, well, certain stereotypes can evolve. Personally, I have nothing again volunteer services - most around my area are. Some have members have fitting the stereotype to a "t", others are well-trained, high-speed organizations that provide quality care to their communities. Volunteer or not, I think the whole idea of "ambulance drivers" is a bad one. I understand that they may be in a bind, but the logic that offering sub-standard care is better than no care is flawed. Rather than recruiting for drivers, why not recruit for an EMT class? Hell, even an MFR class would be better than random people driving. Running skeleton crews is just asking for trouble. And yes, that is what this whole thing implies. A service isn't going to put out a desperate blurb in the local paper begging for drivers just so they can run 3-man crews. No, it's going to run when they don't have enough trained providers to cover shifts and are trying to spread things thin versus addressing the real problem. They are putting themselves and their patients at risk, not to mention the untrained and unprepared do-gooders and adrenaline seekers they'll attract. I mean come on, they're not even talking about requiring CEVO or other such ambulance/emergency-specific driving safety protocol. It's stupid!

Um NO! I dont get this at all... Volunteer = fail WHY? We are all trained and state certified, paid or not A driver, not two medical professionals = fail I didnt see where it said just one and one? Maybe they need the driver to get 2 in the back 2 members and a driver = fail WHY? Whats so bad about that the last two are not even worth asking about. It is such a shame that this website HATES volunteers so much! We are all part of the same community yet volunteers and firemedics are looked down on like dog crap under a "professional's" boot. Im going to shut up now before I start ranting.....

Have you ever seen him do either? His ability to contribute ends with idiotic quips and self-righteous bitching. No worries girl. Those that have no education believe that the the rest of us should simply allow the uneducated to flow into our field as they see EMS as a club and not a profession...I can't find way to discuss these things intelligently with the ignorant. Send firemedic and capfiremedic a Tshirt with a fireman carrying a baby from a burning building, or an angel crying over a helmet, and they'll go away happy. Dwayne

I'm surprised that Texas allows ECAs to transport patients. My understanding is they're essentially First Responder level. I can't support that. I will say, however, that I'm FAR more comfortable in the back of the truck with a retired CDL driver with 30+ years in the seat but no EMT license, like we have, driving me to the hospital versus to an 18 year old EMT with less than 2 years experience driving mommy's SUV back and forth to school. Neither one of them can do very much to help me once the wheels start turning anyway, so what's the difference? The difference is, I'm much more likely to not get dead with the experienced driver. As Dust always tells us, it's when the vehicle is in motion that we're getting killed- and killing patients.

Don't ever say I didn't try to help.....

I don't think that was the intent. I think the intent was we can not properly answer the OP without knowing what state he's in, and further we all have a wealth of experience to share, however this is a legal matter that should be taken up with his local state EMS authority. I think that was the point, not that his question is beneath us. But just cause I liked your idea. Boob pic for you. (P.S. if this ruffles anyone's feathers just remove it, its just for a laugh)

I tend to agree with you about the volunteer bashing here, but I also do not work with volunteers. I've always held the opinion that because we have so many models of service in this country- paid on call, fire based, private, county, hospital based, volunteer- that a one size fits all solution to problems in EMS is impossible. We have various levels of certification and every conceivable combination of providers. What works for one area will NOT work in another. What I will agree with is the fact that in most cases, fire based EMS is generally NOT the best solution- and certainly no friend of single role EMS providers. The emphasis is always on FSR- funding, training, PR, equipment, apparatus- and EMS usually gets the left overs. I don't know what the answers are, but I do know it would be silly to bash a system I do not work in, and have no idea about. If an area cannot afford to pay providers, but some folks are willing to step up and help their own community, it seems to me that they are extremely valuable to that particular community.

Did I miss something? Why is this such a fail? Because they are in need of assistance from their community? Not all EMS services have enough funding to maintain enough personnel to meet their calls and require the need to have a "driver" to meet their needs. Most of those services are lucky to have EMTs, they usually can only get ECAs. These are people who volunteer, they give of their free time to help their community..... Soooo, again. FAIL?! Why, because it sounds hokey to you?

Hallelujah!!!!

:roll: People seem to be big babies now and will get a papercut or cough too hard and cry until they get pain meds....good grief!

They are quite capable individuals in many ways. These people are not hobbyist. They are simply citizens helping their community, a term apparently vacant from the vocabulary of many on this network site. Do your homework before you go bashing on other EMS agencies ways of working. This particular service can not afford to staff that many paid providers, not to mention they have 2 medics, 2 WHOLE MEDICS!!! The rest of their service is comprised mostly of ECAs and EMTs. These are not stupid or lazy people. Just because they have some other full time job does not make them less of an EMT, ECA, or Paramedic for that matter. If anything it broadens their ability to help others for engagin them in the empthetic aspects of the job. By the way, the State of Texas is perfectly aware of systems that work in this fashion. They MADE IT THAT WAY!!!!! Because they have sense enough to realize that not every area will be needy of fully staffed and paid services. Nor could they afford it if they wanted to. There is far too much terrain to cover. Take note. I work for a private company, we do 14,000 calls a year in a city of 110,000 roughly. We also serve over 90% of the county we operate in, not to mention some thousands of miles of area in 3 other surrounding counties. We also provide mutual aide for some 6 or 7 additional cities on a regular basis. But we have investors and billing companies and non county acquired funding. If your county is underpopluated, you simply can not afford paid services to the extent of what some people on here are suggesting.

It's not hard to drive an ambulance, not hard at all. Being an EMT doesn't make you a better driver. Being a medic doesn't make you a better driver. I just think you people need to find something more interesting to bitch about.