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Mazrin, Exceptional first post! Welcome to the City! I noticed that you're not naive about the whole 'glory and teary eyed thank yous' that is so commonly associated with entry level EMS people. Since you appear to have your feet on the ground, let's get right down to 'brass tacks': EMS can be a rewarding career. It's got its 'up sides' and its 'down sides'. A lot of people aren't burned out on the helping people aspect as much as they are on the bullshit that's associated. Depending on the service you're with, you've got: 1. Small vollie politics and ass kissing to get ahead 2. Clicques that you'll find any place you work 3. The "You're nothing more than a warm body in a uniform" mentality of some of the larger services 4. The "You're just a mere Basic, while I am a PARAGOD!" mentality of some of the levels of EMS 5. The 0300 "I've got to go to the ER for this stubbed toe!" call Then there's fighting the 'trauma junkie' mentality that is very pervasive in this field. The disappointment of not being able to 'save the world' because you've got your EMT-B, and have been turned loose with peoples lives in your hands. Depending on the call volume of the service you're on, you may or may not get breaks, you may or may not get 'sit down meals', and you may or may not be returned to quarters between calls. In GA, (and other areas of this great country) the average wage for an EMT-B is about $10.00/hr. By the time you factor in taxes and other expenses; no, you're not bringing home a lot of 'bacon' at the end of the week. Because of this, you start 'jumping open shifts' as they come available. This can lead to relationship problems because you're never around, and you're sleeping if you are. Another 'relationship hazard' is not being able to talk to your 'significant other' about the calls, because a) they won't understand a thing you're talking about or you're trying to shield them from the 'yucky stuff' we deal with in the field. EMS is demanding work, and it takes a special breed of person to be able to deal with all that we come across in the field. Many will tell you that once it 'gets in your blood', it's hard to get rid of the urge to 'jump in and take control of a bad situation'. A lot of EMT-B's get 'burned out' because they're relegated to the IFT trucks, where you're not always viewed as a health care provider, but more of a 'horizontal taxi cab'. Because of this, most people tend to lose sight of the fact that for any private service, the IFT is the 'bread and butter' of the company. They also tend to lose sight of the fact that on an IFT truck, you're getting a myriad of exposures to establish and hone your 'bedside manners' and really get your 'hands on' experience. Then there are those that go into EMS 'blind' until they are called to their first MCI and realize that this is NOTHING like they thought it would be and can't handle the patients screaming in pain. (Why does it always seem that the patients with the minor injuries scream the loudest and longest?) EMS is never a 'steady pace', it's either 'feast or famine'. The calls may be hours apart, or they may be back to back....it makes it difficult (especially with a volly or on call service) to make plans for anything. Sick and injured people don't take holidays off, and usually the 'low man on the totem pole' gets to pull all the holidays... Bottom line: EMS is a field that takes some 'tough as nails' individuals that can learn very quickly how to separate the 'business' from the private life. Many people can't do that, and they end up taking the job home with them. You have to be able to balance being compassionate to your patients, and being able to 'shut it off' at the end of the day. This ISN'T a good career choice for those that want to just do 'eight and skate', who can't leave work at work, and who are just too 'soft hearted'. It is also not a good 'fit' for those that complete EMT-B and think that they're at the top of their game. There is no 'top of your game' in EMS, because our patients rarely, if ever, read the textbooks and act accordingly.....

Man, Lone Star just killed your thread brother, as that is nearly a perfect post in my experience. There is no way to describe here what the job means and entails to everyone, but if you choose this path you will instantly recognize each and every point that he made. I'm going to highlight a few simply so that I can feel superior and believe if I've added something pertinent to the conversation... I never get tired of pts.in general. There are moments, but they are incredibly rare. My coworkers sometimes make fun of me, mostly in a good way, because I tell them that my theory is to 'love all of my patients. If I love them then I talk to them right and all of the other decisions become easy.' And I believe this, that I share my life with each and every pt that I encounter. (Understand that I have never worked a high volume system with the exception of being overseas, so others may feel differently, and justifiably so) I forget most of them almost immediately when I leave the ER, or in my current gig send them off to the hospital or clinic. But for the few minutes/hours/days that I am with them I try and open myself up and truly see them... I love that. Some here will tell you that that is just a bunch of wanker bullshit. And they will also be right..for them. But sometimes we all get tired of the bullshit we work around. I recently came into contact with a medic that was telling me that the only use he had for Hydrogen Peroxide in his ambulance was convincing the drug addicts that it is an HIV/AIDS test. You bring it into contact with blood, and if it foams, that that is a positive test. I completely destroyed him in front of God and everyone. I forced him to try and explain in front of about 15 people how convincing someone that has almost nothing to live for that they now have absolutely nothing to live for was proper care? I asked him to define the role of a paramedic in healthcare, to define the word compassion. It's wasn't pretty, but I'll bet he's more careful about talking idiotic macho TV crap around people he doesn't know in the future. He doesn't like me much now, and that's ok, because I don't like him at all. Unfortunately he will tell that story to many, many of his coworkers that will think that it's hilarious and will use it on their trucks. Of course the flip side is that you will also run with many providers that will almost take your breath away with their kindness and competence. And for me, that keeps me working, and thinking and studying every day, so that I can try and throw my hat into their ring. But the truth is, if you truly want to be a rockstar provider you will always be in the minority. You will always make others at least a little bit uncomfortable. But fuck em...This isn't a popularity contest. Akflightmedic, chbare, billygoatpete, Mobey, hell...there are probably 30 more here that I could name if I took the time..Being in a profession that allows me the priveledge of having folks like that to council and guide me? Priceless. Yeah, I'm not sure where you're at, but these wages sound well above the national average. I do pretty well now, by my standards, but I work a min of 14/12s in a row in some pretty cool, but weird places. Yeah, this is the down side of having a career that is dominated mostly by kids. They are willing to go crazy, burning themselves out working a gazillion shifts a week. It's not healthy, but it pays the bills they would say. I'm thinking that if you have a family, a house, a boat, a motorcycle and a jetski, that you need to redefine your priorities and what it actually means to pay the bills. Another great point. Plus, if you have a hard time keeping your dick in your pants there is plenty of opportunity to cheat on your spouse or sleep with someone else's. Judging from the quality of your first post though, you don't strike me as someone that has trouble with logic and focus. As far as stories...yeah, mostly they are best left at work unless you have something that hurt your heart, and then of course you should share that with your mate. My wife could not possibly care less about EMS. She's proud of me for being a medic but has no interested in the blood and gore stories, etc. Once, early on I had 6 patients in one day and three of them died. After the last pt was delivered dead to the ER (two were end stage pathologies that died during transit and one arrest.) I swore I was going to duck calls for the rest of the day. As I was walking back to my ambulance, another pulled in so I reached out and opened the doors for them and they had a pt in arrest. My partner was waiting at the truck and saw me riding in on the cot doing compression and almost died laughing at the coincidence of me getting stuck on another dead person. I was laughing my ass off telling this story to my wife who said, "Honey, that story is very funny, I'm sure it is, but please don't tell that to any of our friends or family." Heh.. It's a crazy world... I wish if firemen really needed to get whacker hero tattoos that they would replace the 911 nonsense, (unless of course you were actually there) with some of the words in bold. Ok, not the IFT part, but you know what I mean. Lone Star has pretty much created an EMS primer for you as it relates to your questions. I've got almost nothing to do in the clinic at my current job, which is why I feel the need to chime in and give long winded answers where there often weren't really any questions. But you know what? One of the things I love about being a paramedic? Is that those here get that I'm bored out of my mind, they will allow me my drivel, even support me if I need it, until enough is enough, and then one will be kind enough to say, "Ok man, it's way past time to stop being an asshole. you've had your time, now suck it up princess and go do something productive!" Heh...I love my job.... Dwayne

Hi, everyone. Little bit of background: I recently graduated from college with a degree I'm not really interested in using. Not interested in an office job (23 year old male). Police / Fire / EMS was always something that sort of sat in the back of my mind as something I'd really like to do. I first decided on police. I got hired by the State Police and went to the academy. It was there that my first naive mistake was made. I went into police hoping to be someone that helps people, does something meaningful and rewarding, etc. Turns out the profession and the people in it are too aggressive for my personality (not saying anything bad, it seems like you need it to do what they do, it just wasn't a good fit for me). I left that. No longer interested in pursing a law enforcement job. So, I took up a job doing security (Was easy to get. Needed something to not be stagnant). living back home again for a bit to recoup, figure out what I want to do. I toyed with a number of things, and eventually decide to go for EMT-B, and then after some experience, get my Medic. Taking the (emt- class and loving it. This stuff is really, really interesting. Instructors are cool, I'm currently #1 in the class, and feel I have a talent for it. I don't just memorize answers, I actually really like learning all the "why's" and "hows" behind all the signs and symptoms and stuff. Even if I did nothing with this certification, I'm having fun getting it. Then I find these forums, and read some pretty discouraging posts about how awful this job is, how you can't possibly make a living off the pay, relationships are doomed, etc etc. In my state EMT-Bs avg out at about $16/hr, P's start around $20 avg at about $24+/hour. Maybe that's >average? Seems like enough money for a 23 year old who tends to live modestly. If I go for medic, the $20+/hour seems like enough as well. I'm not looking to make big bucks, just looking to live comfortably and be content in my work. To make a ling story short, what's your take? Think the job is awful? -Then why are you still doing it? Good but pay sucks when you're starting a family / trying to buy a house, etc? -What's a good career to transition into? Any success stories? Thanks for taking the time to read this, and if you do, the time to respond. Feeling a little discouraged. Believe me, after the police thing, I certainly have more realistic expectations of what I'm getting into. I know it's not all excitement and glory and teary eyed "thank you"s. But man, the way some people here talk about it can be a real downer.

I'll do my best to offer a little bit of the other side. EMS is filled with people who don't like their jobs. Everyone seems to have their own particular reasons why, but I will just touch on a few of the common themes so that you can be a little better prepared. These aren't necessarily my personal feelings, but I think they are all pretty accurate. 1. As an EMT, and even more so as a medic, eventually at some point you will realize that you are at the bottom of the totem pole in a system that revolves around hierarchy. Worse, you will realize that you belong there. Medical training for prehospital providers is like a crash course. There is very little of the background, of the science, of the rigorous study that characterizes most serious medical training. Because we lack this, we are constantly at the tip of the iceberg, knowing just enough to get by but not enough to really understand. Depending on your personality and your background, this may bother you every day or never at all. There is no real solution to this problem but to leave EMS and go back to school, which quickly becomes less and less of an option as people get older and more tied down by debt and family obligations. The result is a large population of dissatisfied EMS workers with no real way out. 2. The rest of the medical community, as well as many EMS employers, recognize the deficiencies detailed above and treat EMTs/Paramedics with a constant disrespect. This manifests itself in many ways both big and small, from relative job insecurity ("you are not special, you can be replaced tomorrow no sweat") to nurses/doctors/medical staff who refuse to acknowledge the vital role we play in the continuity of care. Some of this can be relieved on a personal level by maintaining a good reputation, but this takes years of work and at the end of the day when the chips are down, you are still "just" an EMT or paramedic. You will be reminded of this at the worst time and it will make you feel like shit. 3. There is the constant threat of injury. This is a dangerous job that requires repetitive physical motion. Back, knee, and shoulder injuries are extremely common and often career-ending. If that happens you can count only on a pittance from workers-comp for a short period of time, and then ending up jobless with very few marketable job skills. What are you going to do at age 40 with a busted back and a high school education? Not much. I realize you have a college degree, which is great, but this is the reality for an overwhelming proportion of EMS workers. Believe me, this weighs heavily on the mind of any career EMS worker, and it isn't a pleasant thought. 4. We rarely save lives, and a lot of the time it takes some creativity and imagination to even see that we "made a difference" for our patients. The majority of what you do on the ambulance will be needless transport for barely injured or sick people who have no business on an ambulance nevermind a hospital. The ratio will change depending on where you work, but I would (generously) estimate that 20% of the patients I see have a legitimate need for my services. This reality differs dramatically from the expectations of the newly hired. Even if you "know" it's not going to be all blood and guts, I don't think you can truly appreciate how ridiculous the day-to-day can be. Some people are better at handling this than others, as lots of people will certainty attest to on this forum. I can tell you though, if you take a look at people with 15 and 20 years in this business (a small population to begin with), you will find VERY few people who aren't frustrated with this on a daily basis. 5. The pay isn't great, and unless you work for a fire service or the occasional 3rd service municipality, you can forget about a pension or retirement benefits other than a 401-k. $20 an hour may seem like a decent salary to you now, but that money gets eaten up QUICK with a mortgage, school loan payments, and a family. Unless you are extremely good at managing your money (and most aren't), you will likely come to rely on overtime hours, which will be inconsistent and take you away from home for more time than you'd like. I work with a lot of people who routinely pull 60-hour work weeks just to pay the bills, and once you get caught up in that kind of situation it is very difficult to pull yourself out. There are others, but I think those are pretty much the "big 5." Education, respect, injury, B.S., and pay. You should know that this is, however, an extremely rewarding job. Working on an ambulance gives you opportunity to see things that you never would otherwise, and I think really gives you a perspective into life (and death) that very few people get. I don't think there is any other job out there like this, and those benefits shouldn't be ignored. I am very proud of my job and I am extremely glad that I decided to do it. That said, I'm working my butt off to get out.

That is an interesting article. The employee argued that he had a drug addiction, which should be considered a disability, and that his employment should be protected under the disability act. The findings of the tribunal showed that although the employer could not prove that the employee was under the influence at work, the employer could terminate employment based on the drug testing. It discussed the fine line between firing someone because they are an addict and firing someone because of misconduct which may have been a result of the addiction. I realize that people with addictions (and in this case, the tribunal wasn’t convinced the employee truly had an addiction) are not always able to control those urges and actions related to the addiction, but I am not convinced that they should be able to use the addiction as an excuse to justify those actions and not receive punishment for those actions. Dr. Spock stated “…the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.” (The Wrath of Khan, 1982) and although I am not a Trekkie, I do believe that the needs of the patient that this employee may deal with outweigh the need to protect his employment. There are consequences to any action, and those consequences may be good or bad. More and more, we are becoming a society of excuses, where bad behaviors are dismissed with labels of “syndrome,” “addiction,” “illness,” “disorder,” rather than holding the individual responsible for their actions. At some point, a person chooses a path. How can we make excuses for the destination of that path when there were choices along the way? I agree with the tribunal in the decision, and am glad the employer terminated this employee. The risks of keeping this employee outweigh the benefits.

This week I was called Ambulance driver 6 times. I have heard it time and time again for the last ten years. What I was wondering is how people handle it. I have even heard RN call me that and I correct them I am a medically trained paramedic but still i am called an ambulance driver IN the words of Rodney Dangerfield "Can't I get no respect"

Crotchity, in the original article, at the start of the second paragraph, it states “City Councilman Kenneth Stokes has threatened to reverse the contract American Medical Response has to serve in the area if the company doesn't send its workers into violent crime scenes, even before police arrive.” I think that makes the intent of Councilman Stokes’ comments very clear. As much as you want it to be, since you have brought it up in other threads, this Councilman is not basing his comments on race, and the replies from EMS are not either. It is a question of “is the scene violent? Yes or No.” End of story. Using race as an excuse, or a crutch in situations like this is just that, and excuse or a crutch. The true issue is that this idiot wants EMS to respond prior to police to violent scenes. Race is only an issue when we allow it to be, and instead of looking at the sins of the past, how about looking to the future, and trying to solve problems instead of creating problems where none exist. Let's keep this thread on topic - that this councilman has his head up his *** and needs to be educated about scene safety and the role of EMS.

I have sent to that supplied E-Mail address, the following, with my full name and address redacted here: Dear Councilman Stokes: I read, online at the EMT City.com web site, about your disagreement with the AMR Ambulance Service Providers in your area. In potentially violent situations, if I understand the gist of your statements, the crews should simply don "soft body armor", and respond in. As someone who has been working ambulances in the volunteer, proprietary, and municipal areas for 38 years, 25 years with the Fire Department of New York City Emergency Medical Service Command (recently retired), I find such attitude to truly be shocking. One of the first things taught to EMTs and Paramedics is what is called "Scene Safety". On arrival at a scene, the crews will do a quick "10 Second Scene Safety Survey", which includes looking for downed wires, obviously unstable things like trees and telephone poles overhanging car wrecks, flaming buildings, and people, other than Law Enforcement Officers or the Military, brandishing firearms or knives. Those in EMS are not usually trained in hand to hand combat by their employers, as is the case with the LEOs. Also, if needed, LEOs are carrying firearms of their own, to shoot back if necessary. EMS crews are trained in helping the sick and injured, not in causing some of the injuries they might treat. If an Emergency Medical Technician or Paramedic gets hurt or killed at a violent scene, or on any assignment, they are not available to respond to help anyone else. In addition, a second crew will be needed to respond to the injured first crew, and a third to the original incident. While the second ambulance is leap-frogging over the area covered by the first crew, and the third over both the previous crews, who is going to cover the areas they left while helping at the first crew's scene? I admit that there are specialty trained "Tactical EMS" teams, who respond in to scenes with the SWAT or Hostage Negotiating Teams, or cross trained LEOs who serve in EMS capacity when in the special response. However, as with the US Military, most times, the "medic" is unarmed, and is protected by the armed LEOs (or the Army or Marine unit they are with). The Tactical EMS crews train regularly with the LEOs, which most "line unit" EMS crews do not do. Before you just tell an EMS crew to don the armor, I would suggest you ride a few tours in ambulances that cover areas in Jackson, or any large metropolitan area, known to be prone to violence on Saturday nights. I think that doing so might open your eyes. Respectfully, Richard B, New York State Emergency Medical Technician, FDNY EMS Command (Retired).

Phil they could have a paramedic costume it could be a pretty white dress

The OP on this string has reopened an old discussion. Therefore, I'll repeat myself (actually, the Instructor/Coordinators at the FDNY EMS Command Academy), that the scoop type stretcher does not provide support directly under the spine. Others state that no pressure on the spine is a good idea. I am not into the research end of the biz, so until the medical director, and the NY State DoH tell me otherwise... By the way, I seem to recall that one can transport a patient on a scoop to where they can be placed onto the long spine board, and the combination is allowed, but I'd probably be "writ up" if I left the patient on the scoop only, on top of the wheeled stretcher.