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Look here, my friend... we don't give out negative points because we don't like you, we do so when you appear to be a friggin' troll! I read through all of the threads you posted as you posted them, and you rambled all over the place and made a mess in here. I'm sorry, but you then lashing out and calling people paranoid (with a definition no less) just makes you look even dumber. You're an internet whacko, and were summarily labeled as such by those experienced in identifying them. Congrats, you got your money back. Sorry you got screwed by the strike because you happened to be going through school at the same time that the strike happened. Can you shut up now? Please? Even more telling is your need to come in here and flash around "oh lookee lookee I got my money back you all were wrong" when it really serves no purpose. Or, even better... can you start posting on the clinical threads and actually PARTICIPATING in this forum instead of being wrapped up in your own little world all the time? There's a whole wide world of medicine out here, and all you want to do is piss and moan about how your clinical situation sucked and how some of the big bad mean Canuckian members here decided they didn't like you... Thanks. Wendy CO EMT-B

<--------- OMG: I love it... new job title right there!

I reread the OP multiple times to see if I understand her correctly. I think what she was saying (my opinion here) is that the final lecture was for infield pronouncment. Thus I believe it would be a medic class as I dont know any Basics that can make a call unless outwordly obvious (full decap, rigor, decay). So seeing the images, they seemed to be instructional, and the lecture that went along with them would be in a normal course of duties as far as pronouncment goes. I believe the infant abuse images were disturbing her. Now here is where I read into it, I dont think the images were overtly graphic but meraly the fact they are of infants is what got disturbing. If this is the case then its not anyone fault. The coroner was trying to be thorough and as we all have probably experienced just certain things get us more than others. Now if this was a one hour slide show of the most horrific things without a medical basis then yes it was wrong. But if an image was put on screen then discussed medically by the coroner and class then I do see a benifit. It exposes the would be medic to rationally look at a body and make a call in the field but in a controled environment where mistakes dont cause issues. When we were in basic class and came to our trauma module one of our lectures was a slide show showing trauma. Every slide was discussed medically and broken down to what would need to be done ect. Yes some of the images were disturbing due to age or MOI but to me were vital. Being in a basic class and not having been exposed to those sort of thing before hand (I have in my job but not from an EMT perspective) in was a great learning tool. If we missed an intervention the only thing that happened was we went back over it, we didnt potentionally kill a patient. Another example, in CEBRN class seeing examples of small pox, sarin, vx, mustard gas patients was disturbing but educational. How would we know what to look for unless it was shown. Will I ever see one of those patients, I hope to God NO, but at least if it happens I know what to be on the look out for. Hazmat class showing meth lab burns, graphic and educational. Yes I do believe there is a line where you go from educational to slasher film but if its presented in a way that takes time between images to discuss medically then it is educational. If its just slide after slide with no discussion then forget about it, your just trying to stimulate a reaction from the class. I cant wait to hear from the OP to see what else happened during the class and maybe answer some or all of our questions.

Anthony, I'm not sure if this was directed at me but I'll answer any way. When you are reducing the fx you are moving in the opposite direction of the sharp edges. Think of a broken glass bottle that you are holding from the mouth. Rub the glass bottle along your skin with the sharp edges going forward and you will cut your skin. Now, pull the bottle from the mouth and you will not cut yourself because the sharp edges are moving in the wrong direction. This is the same thing that you are doing when you reduce a fracture. I hope you can visualize what I am describing.

Sounds like a rookie mistake, by someone who at the time WAS a rookie. However, a partial fail to the ER Doctor, due to personal experiences, I don't recall so much whatever the lesson, just that I got humiliated in public. Before I get attacked due to that, just know, everyone, I hate being humiliated in public, no matter what the subject, or the person doing the humiliation. I view public humiliation by anyone in a supervisory position as a form of legal bullying. Let's discuss that, if at all, in another string, please. I've hijacked this one too long already.

Lifeguard I never accused you of being a lawyer, barrister, or litigator of any kind. I believe associating someone of your intelligence with the practice of law would be a serious insult to the profession, and perhaps even put me at risk for libel. That said, what do you plan to do with your big refund? I suggest you use it for a downpayment on an apartment, so you can finally move out of your mothers basement.

As I thought a lot of people got carried away with their own agendas instead of giving the help you asked for. Sometimes things affect us in a weird way. If you were fine at the ER on an on going basis honestly you'll probably be fine. It's good that you went to others for advice though. Sometimes in the classroom you have more time to think about the pictures since there isn't a task at hand to concentrate on. Your mind then just keeps thinking about the awfulness of it. In addition the pics you saw weren't things you'll see day in and day out. They were probably the difficult cases the coroner pulled out because they caused problems for EMS in the past. BTW, EMTs can still determine someone dead like a medic. It's the same criteria for the most part except ones having to do with calling an arrest or requiring EKG rhythms...the minority of death determinations that I've seen. But don't worry you'll be just fine. I can psych myself out too if I think about certain scenarios yet be just fine on scene.

That is the beauty of the whole thing wendy. The strike did not effect him, as he Failed school prior to the strike. Check out his 1st posting on this subject: He failed class because he failed to learn the material, then tried to attack the school & licensing board. This is what makes him such a troll. Twisting facts, and attacking any who do not agree with him. Ya.... I have a mental problem.... Mhmm, that is why I have completed 4 yrs of prehospital medical education and you couldent get through 1? I am done getting angry at this loser

Wow, I certainly didn't expect such a response. I have to say after thinking about it I can respect the school's reasoning behind the lecture and I believe there is some educational value, especially in the case of being able to recognize certain sign of child abuse etc. I definitely am not aiming to start any trouble for the school, it is truly a terrific program and in all honesty I cannot say that they are at any fault here. I don't see myself making a formal complaint especially since out of a class of 20+ students I was the only one that I know of who had such a reaction. In all fairness they did warn us ahead of time that it would be graphic, and thus I could have excused myself. I also did my best to just look at my desk for most of the time but ultimately I could have excused myself. I think the purpose of my post really was just to get some feedback in terms of my self doubts going into this line of work, meaning, if I can't stomach a sideshow how will I be able to handle it in real life? But I appreciate every one's feed back and comments.

A fair amount of assumption going on. Perhaps the OP could answer some questions before we make any judgments? Take care, chbare.

I think one shouldn't go straight to assuming everything was done inappropriately until we're told so. this seems almost like hanging a fellow EMT out to dry when we read a news article on an incident without knowing details...

I am at a loss here. Why are people vilifying the coroner or the school here? This class was designed for people who will be working in this field. They will see things like this and possibly much more. If this coroner whipped out this slide show at a high school class or for some other non-medical audience, then I agree it would be inappropriate. As a provider or a prospective employer, I would much rather know NOW if someone can handle the horrors we sometimes see on this job. These things are part of the job. What is inappropriate about showing them? Now I have no problem with the school or instructor pulling a student aside and having a heart to heart with them. Make sure they are OK, but also ask some tough questions. To me, this is like a firefighter who is afraid of going into a burning building. It's at the core of our job, and we need to not only deal with these things, but push our feelings aside to mitigate whatever situation we were called to handle. Not everyone can do this, and that's why those in this field are a special breed. Better to know now than after you've been hired and realize you made a huge mistake.

To those thinking a petition should be started instead of counselling the student, did you consider any other alternatives first? Did the slides have any educational value? Perhaps knowing how to recognise specific things or how not to mistake lividity for other conditions or partial decapitations or recognizing SIDS or any number of other issues which have been issues noticed by the coroner. Or perhaps simply letting the school know it affected her instead of rushing off to start trouble. Maybe the school would actually care about students being affected. Gasp.

Lilabean- I'm sorry that this upset you, but I'm going to be a bit harsh. I see nothing inappropriate about that lecture- especially if it was the last one of the class. I also see nothing wrong with your reaction, but I'm thinking this is probably your first exposure to such nastiness. Better to flip out a bit now vs in a public place, in front of family and/or a patient. I would not say your reaction means anything- yet. What do you want to do now? How do you want to proceed? How do you feel about the business now? Does this change anything for you? I'm sure you realize that those horrific calls are few and far between, but they generally seem to come when you least expect them and/or when you at your most vulnerable personally.. Depending on where you work, you may see so much of this stuff you won't even bat an eye. Regardless of where you work, you will see various degrees of perversion and weirdness and hopefully you will find ways to adapt to it.

1) No 2) No 3) None 4) Lots 5) Some secondary arrests (hypothermia, advanced pregnancy and certian overdoses only)

I'm kind of on the fence here.. I get what Lone Star is saying, that people should be exposed if they're going to want to be in a field that might leave them caring for these types of people, but also I have no trouble seeing an ass hat coroner bringing in his grossest material for the gag factor. I don't think that you should be protected from such images when you choose to go into this field, but as Mobey and tta said, there is also no need to beat you over the head with it. In fact I always distrusted most the kids that would laugh and yell, "Look at the guts falling out!! That is so cool!" Much more than the students that I caught looking at their desks instead of the screen. The question that I have for you girl is this, why did you look at the screen until you were so upset that you had to leave the class? Why didn't you choose to look away? During my studies I often chose to look away from the screen when the images made me feel, I don't know, unhealthy? At the end of the class I would hope that you would have been more able to care for your own well being. But I know that that is hard when you're new to something. How many pictures were presented? How many of kids, and how many of those were 'brutal'? I'm curious if you were overwhelmed by a ton of photos, or by a few photos that simply kicked you in the ovaries? See what I mean? I'm interested to see how this thread moves forward. Dwayne

Lila, When you decided to get into EMS, just what did you really expect the job to entail? Why did you decide to get into EMS in the first place? Did you walk in with blinders on, or did you really look into the field and see what our world REALLY looks like? Forgive me if this seems too 'blunt'. This is not an attack on you in any form! I highly doubt that your school, instructor or the coroner (or anyone else involved in this presentation) set out to intentionally scar you emotionally with this presentation. Having been in the field for as long as I have, I can tell you that most of what we deal with in EMS is 'ugly'. When we're on scene, we don't have the luxury to call 'time out' and run out to the truck to regroup and get ourselves composed. Could it be that the coroner's only intention was to help desensitize you in the classroom so that you dont 'fall to pieces' on the street? There are going to be many times in your EMS career that people are going to depend on you to keep your shit together and be the 'rock' that they can cling to when their life is in total chaos. This isn't going to be possible if you're going to fall apart because the call involves kids, the elderly, the young, or whatever demographic tugs at your heart strings! Yes, the pictures were probably very brutal, haunting and extremely disturbing. But remember, on scene you CAN'T go running from the house weeping your eyes out. You HAVE to grit your teeth, roll up your sleeves and get in the middle of the shit storm and do what you were educated to do! We don't get to pick and choose what calls we are dispatched to. We don't get to only do the 'sunshine and belly rubs' calls that leave you with a warm fuzzy feeling inside. You're going to go to calls where some abusive jackass man has beaten the ever-loving shit out of his wife/girlfriend/fiancée....you'll go to calls where some alcoholic mother has beaten her kids within an inch of their lives, or worse. Depending on what type of environment you're in, you may even get the call for some innocent grandfather who just got 3 bullets in his chest from some strung out junkie who just shot him for a measly $12.00... You'll be dispatched to the MVA in the middle of the night that was caused by a drunk driver, who just killed a family of four coming home from Grandma's house...and they only get a few cuts and bruises. You might even get dispatched to the depressed person, who's decided that life isn’t worth living; and decides to deep throat a shotgun, and ends up splattering his brains all over the ceiling and walls. Yes, EMS can be a very UGLY world, but it's what we do. Again, this is not a personal attack Lila, it's the blunt, brutal reality of EMS...

I have been studying at the Paramedic Acadamy from April 2008-January 2009. However, I could not complete my program, as a result of an appeal process. I won my first appeal to take an exam again. Errors were made by the Justice Institute. However, this appeal process extended to December 2009 as a result of the labour problems with the BCAS. This delay has adversely affected my ability to complete my training. The Paramedic Acadamy is closed indefinately. I am seeking to recover my fees and associated costs so that I can take my Paramedic training at a private college. Can I recover these costs through Small Claims?

Lecture meaning you are still in school? (yes i know this is under students) As most know, I am not great at consoling... or the emotional stuff, but I do wanna say this: If your school put you through this damaging gore fest, they should be held accountable! Yes... at times we in EMS do get subjected to decapitation, deadly bleeds, abused children, SIDS, etc etc. We see these things in small doses, and sometimes need time off imediatly after to seek counsil to learn how to deal with the emotions attatched to these experiences. There is no goddam reason to present a "slide show" of picture after picture, of dismembered or deceased patients in some mindless attempt to "teach" students. Shame on your school, and shame on the coroner. What a frickin outrage! You have all the grounds in the world to do whatever you like about this. but at the very least, you MUST get a petition going to end this behavior. I for one as a professional educator, and student of 2 colleges, and 2 universities with 4 years prehospital education, would LOVE to write a letter in support of any action you would like to take. Someone else here will help you deal with the emotional trauma you have encurred, since i suck at that Man this got me fired up for some reason...... Bullshit

Sorry guys, I ain't buying it. This is where I wish we had some psycological educated members on this forum. There is noo way, by any stretch of my imagination, that a slide show of this nature can do any good to a room full of EMT students. Please remember, this is technical school. These students are not in the mindframe of looking at patients as a "series of complicated systems" like some of us are. For the most part, they are still looking at them as "people", AKA, someones daughter, mother etc. You want to be a pro-active school, have the students do a tour into the morgue to see lividity, rigor etc. But to show pictures of partial decapitation, dead babies, etc etc.... Gimme a fricken break. Lets be realistic here.... I have had one experience with SIDS, it screwed up my mind and sleep for quite a while, my female partner had to take off 2 days, and seek coulsiling. Are you guys really advocating for a school that bombards brand new students with pic after pic of these mentally traumatizing images? As prehopital professionals we can do better guys. I don't see anyone here who states a petition should be started INSTEAD of counselling. Why other alternatives? I really do not see a petition as a "big" step... I suppose you could have a personal letter first, but to have it notarized by the profession demands a little more attention. What does that have to do with anything? HERBIE1 Really?? So you fail to recognize mental trauma? Or are you saying you EXPECT that reaction... thereby saying you expect this type of slideshow to cause mental trauma?

I enjoy pointing out the incorect assessment of my original post. Read the other posts. They are toxic. None of the replies are connected to the topic. I am probably the first student to be granted a full refund. Toxic ranting with no real connection to the topic. internet whacko? Your lost. I only respond to the incomplete and toxic posts. Read them, Moby started it all. However, you don't comprehend this. internet whacko? it's ok for you to lash out? What a hypocrite. I only respond to incomplete, toxic responses. Its true. Your funny.

Just pointing out the wrong assessments made. Your previous reponses have been tainted with errors. Most likely a reflection of your Paramedic duties. Mobey was even contacting the Licencing Boards here. Quite obsessive and a little disturbing.

"Its unknown why he included a link about the strike itself, to give some background on the strike I suppose. Oddly, the story he links to is almost a year old" If you were aware of your environment, you would know that the strike lasted 1.5 years, closing the Paramedic Academy indefinately. However, both you and Mobey were convinced I was a Lawyer investigating Paramedics. Very paranoid. However, isn't paranoia a psychotic disorder characterized by delusions of persecution with or without grandeur, often strenuously defended with apparent logic and reason. Extreme, irrational distrust of others

I find your inability to understand my posts truly disturbing. The labour strike is directly related to my posts. If you can't figure that out, nobody can help you. I was not attacking anyone. I wanted advice how to proceed, instead, I got several members obsessed that I was a Lawyer. Mobey was wrongfully linking a post from another site, addressing an unreported, sudden death of a worker. Once again, convinced that I was a Lawyer. He also thought I was another previous member returning under another name. Comparing my posts with his. Just paranoid, obsessive behaviour. Read the latest posts. They are attacking me. Some of the seniors here feel they can post anything. When they are wrong, they can't accept it. Anyone who challenges your incorrect assessment of facts gets a "poor reputation". Big Deal. If poor reputations were based on incomplete and wrong assessments, you would all be given poor reputations. Other members have here e-mailed me stating that most seniors here are sensitive about Lawyers investigating through this site. There was nothing presented that would have lead to this assessment. Mobey was instructing other members to be aware and not post. Paranoid behaviour. However, I accept your apology.

British Columbia Paramedic student granted full refund because of 2009 labour strike. The 3,500 CUPE 873 members, who had been on strike since April 1, were seeking improved staffing levels, wage parity with other emergency response workers and a multi-year contract Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2009/04/10/bc-paramedics-talks.html#ixzz17dLMtrM9