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Nate, So, since Mobey seems to think that I need to actually SHOW him what I am talking about when I speak of a professional way to talk to someone, here it goes. It is never funny when someone goes around intentionally injuring themselves, especially when it goes to the extent of having to call 911 and resulting in them passing out. You will find that on this site, most people will actually be offended by stories like these because we take an oath to help those in need. And while you and your partner may share the same view of what is funny and what is not, most people here will take these stories in another way and not find them funny at all, and then an argument begins. Telling stories about patients that intentionally injure themselves to the extent that we are called in to help them is frowned upon and thought of as being unprofessional and as encouraging this behavior. And even though I'm sure this is not what you were meaning to portray, that is how some took it, so I would suggest not posting things similar to what you did here. We could all use a laugh every now and then, and I'm sure we have all laughed at patients that we have had that were similar to your story in one way or another, but I would recommend taking a look at what others have posted in this portion of the site before posting another story as to try to not offend anyone. Just a little friendly advice.

KNDOUG: Since you apparently have a problem with my expectation of intelligence and compassion for members of the profession I've been part of since 1971, Why do you feel it's not appropriate for me to relegate him to the senior level of burger flipper, that being the fry manager? A fry manager must have the knowledge and skills to be able to safely open a bag of frozen potatoes and pour them into a basket, all while not sticking his hands in the hot oil. Then they must have a degree in salting, not too much or too little. it's a highly skilled profession If the OP Behaves this way on an anonymous web forum, imagine what type of prehospital emergency medical caregiver he will be. I don't think we need punks , dudes or whackers to represent our profession. The balls in your court!

I don't remember being taught those core values all though this rookie did take his class a whole 5 years ago now. Yes we are supposed to have all of those however that is with respect to our PATIENTS and each other but I guarantee you out in the field if you do something to endager the life of someone or you make a wrong statement your partner is going to blast you all the way to hell and back again. The compassion part only goes so far when you make an error of judgement like the OP has done. You may not agree that it was an error in judgement but it was in the opinion of those who have more time in rank than you and in some cases those who have more time in rank than you have even been alive. I just admitted I have been an EMT for a whole 5 years now I still make mistakes as we all do but I listen to the constructive criticsms that I recieve and become better for them. That is what is called Accountability...gee isn't that one of those five value things. See Accountability also means to be liable for ones actions, since you studied English I won't go find display the definitions here but feel free to click on Accountability to see the definition, I feel that as members of this website we are all trying to hold the OP accountable for his actions. Now back to compassion, got sidetracked, yes we as professionals are supposed to have compassion and for the most part we do, however sometimes it just doesn't show as much as it should. With that being said I would like for you to work just 3 years on a busy 911 system dealing with all of the scut then come back and show us all of your compassion. I guarentee you will be at least a little bit more like those of us who have been here a while. We can if they made a mistake however this incidence was not a mistake...this was showing extremely poor judgement. If this had been just a simple mistake I suspect that most of the members on this forum who have posted to this thread would in fact be a lot more willing to forgive. However, as I said above the OP showed poor judgement in this case not just simple mistakes. I would strongly recommend that for this individual a ethics class would be in order. If you have noticed the OP has not returned to this thread or for that matter to the website since he (Dude) posted this thread. Kristina if I remember right you are from Sac I won't bet on it but that is what my memory tells me. Go to work for AMR or another company up there and after running for days and days on end come recite your core values to us and tell us that you still believe they should be applied to your partners, all of your partners 100 percent of the time. Edited twice for spelling and grammar

Remind me what the340$ is for?? Common courtesy would be to laminate my card and make "modules" somewhat accessible for the everyday practioner to be able to assess him/herself and not have to spend a couple months on how to figure out the dam thing out. I'm I alone here?

Direct quote from KNDOUG1 in different thread "I just recently finished EMT school...It was definitely an exciting experience. Just from the limited amount of ride outs I have done and from the people that I have spoken to, EMS sounds like a great career, but I have to say that it wasn't as hands on as I thought it would be. You said that you were not sure where you want to go next but that you have a desire to be hands on with your patients...nursing school will give you more hands on interaction with your patients than working as an EMT or Paramedic, but all of these are great career choices...I spent time doing a hospital rotation and when I compared that to the ride outs on the ambulances, I noticed that in the hospital as a nurse, you get to spend more time with your patients. Where on the ambulance it was 10 or so with them and then you pass them off. So if you are looking for something to give you time with your patients, nursing school may be a better option...but it just depends on what you are really looking for. Good luck with school and everything! ~Kristina So in your several weeks/ months experience as an EMT B tell us how many times you've made a difference in peoples lives. Then in ten , fifteen 25 or 40 years come on back and see if you still believe in the granola crunch life, warm & fuzzy BS that was obviously imbedded in your brain by a proud member of the fruits & nuts society of California is all sunshine crap that you are lecturing us with. Once you've dealt with the dregs of society for years , with an occasional sweet little old lady who really needs your compassion and hand holding, let us know how it works for you. In reality you will spend most of your calls trying to figure out which agency needs to take charge of your pt. The corrections system, the mental health system or the local undertaker. My guess is you won't last very long based on the thousands of newbies I met over the decades. tough love is sometimes needed. It's time for you to open your eyes and have a reality check sunshine.

You can, but it seems like a queer choice given the content of the thread. And I hear you about the majority of the country being opposed to the censorship, but acknowledging that would have hindered by ability to call our Canadian girl members' chastity/sexual morality into question, which was the real reason for my post...grin. Some times even I have to stretch if I'm going to find some way to work sex into a serious topic. Dwayne

What made you choose drugs over electrical cardioversion? Agreed on the pads! what criteria did you use to deduce aberrant tach?

All I can really add to this is that it's been my experience that the more repressed a group is publicly, the more tawdry (shameful and indecent) they tend to be privately. (Anyone ever been naked with a Catholic school girl? OH...MY...God!) So, though it should be a sin to mutilate such a classic song, the Canadian women tend to be smokin' hot and naughty! So I say to Canada...just keep doing what you're doing neighbor...human rights and freedom of speech and thought are only worth so much...I've got your back... Dwayne

Being an EMT is a start; it may not be a start for most who want to be in Medicine but never less, its a start. You must have your HS Diploma. After completing the EMT course; get whatever job you can get; its tough out there. The 9.4% unemployment includes EMS Providers. Even volunteering; take advantage of being young and having no real responsibility (If that's the case). Gain all the experience you can. Go back to school and non-matriculate; if you're unsure. Take the pre-requesites courses for all Allied Health, Nursing, & Medical which are: English I/II and Anatomy & Physiology I/II; this will give you 1-2 semester of Part Time School worth of time to decide if you want to go to Paramedic, Nursing, Medicine, or Other Allied Health Professional. All have its benefit and draw backs. It depends on your desires and goals. Good luck...

There are two simple courses of action in this situation: 1) you can speak out about the unacceptable behavior or 2) you can keep silent, and by doing so; you silently condone their actions. Since you've come to the 'rescue' of the original poster by pointing out how 'mean' we're being to them, you have effectively chosen path #2. Just because someone has chosen to speak out, doesn't mean that they're being 'mean' or 'bullying'. It's pointing out unacceptable behavior in hopes that by doing so, it will change it into acceptable behavior. As far as being a 'job snob'...there is really no such critter. Just because I pointed out that working at McDonalds requires no real education (not that there IS any real education for that type of position), doesn't mean that I consider it a ‘bad job’, I’m just stating the obvious. Working in a fast food business is NOT a profession, it is simply a job. In most cases it’s a ‘fill-in job’ until something better comes along. Haven’t you ever noticed that the majority of McDonald’s workers are those that are either very young (17-18) or those that lack sufficient skills and qualifications for better positions in the work force? How many people actually set out on their career path with the intention of retiring from McDonalds, Wendy’s or Burger King? Haven’t you noticed that there is always a large group of ‘new faces’ through those establishments? We can understand a ‘faux pas of judgment’, but to attempt to defend it as ‘acceptable behavior’ only adds to the original transgression. Profession: An occupation, such as law, medicine, or engineering, that requires considerable training and specialized study. Job: A regular activity performed in exchange for payment Occupation: An activity that serves as one's regular source of livelihood; a vocation. Trade: The people working in or associated with a business or industry Vocation: A regular occupation, especially one for which a person is particularly suited or qualified. Based on the above definitions, I hardly see how being a fry cook or even Fry Manager qualifies as a ‘profession’ (even if they DID attend “Hamburger University”). Let me break out the tissues! EMS is NOT a profession known for it’s ‘warm fuzzies’or sunshine and belly rubs. It is a tough profession and people who find humor in another’s misery or misfortune is not going to be well received.

Believe me...I wasn't one for "warm and fuzzy hand holding" either, until the last thing I said to someone who meant the world to me was very similar to the posts that I have seen here in response to the OP. I have been surrounded by friends and family with mental disorders, and I have my degree in psychology, so I have spent many many long hours with mentally disabled patients. I have seen them smash their heads into walls, cabinets, their bed posts, etc. These patients often times are the nicest people you will ever meet, they just don't know how to deal with their disease. I have built relationships with so many of these patients as I did my internships, so I trust me when I say that I get being sensitive to this thread. I recently lost a friend who had a mental illness. He took his own life by running his car into a brick wall, so I get it. Someone busting their head open against the concrete, not funny. But the last conversation I had with this friend had ended with me acting in the same way that so many people who have responded to this thread have: attacking and bombarding them with terrible accusations and comments. Having a friend who went through through a situation similar to what the OP posted, I have taken a huge step back and looked in the mirror. I don't know if anyone here has ever lost someone like that, but it is the worst feeling in the world to know that your last words to someone were so unkind. That is why I when I saw what was being said here, I had to say something. There are so many ways to deal with a problem other than yelling at someone. An experience like that really makes you think about how you treat people, whether it is a friend, family member, or some random stranger on a website. You never know when your time, or theirs, is over, so I try every day to be a better person and give someone the benefit of the doubt. I do my best to teach them right from wrong without attacking them. I do apologize if I upset you guys, but I really see no reason to attack someone just because we disagree with what has been said. Harsh words never solves anything, all it does is piss people off. Sometimes, all you need is that one person to talk to you and treat you how you would like to be treated to make the difference. And while yes, some people do need a kick in the butt, most do not and a few simple friendly suggestions will usually solve the problem.

There are a lot of great study tools out there that she should look into. There is a text book by Prentice Hall Publishing called Prehospital Emergency Medical Care (I have seen it at the local borders/barnes and nobel) that has a work book that covers each section on the NREMT individually and proved to be great help to me when going through school and studying for the exam. Also, there are a lot of online study tools as well. I used id44.com and it has a bunch of scenario questions that were really helpful as well...But if she is really struggling, there are usually some classes that she can take to help prepare her for the exam. The school I went to did national registry prep courses, and I have seen them at many public schools as well, so you guys may want to look into signing up for one of those. Good luck to her!

Make sure you have change of clothing; socks and underwear too. Enough money, just in case. A nice book &/or mag. Phone charger and phone. Stethoscope and other EMS supplies you're suppose to have. Extra pens. Watch. Laptop; you never know. Make sure you have a book bag to hold all this. Lastly, bring your A game and leave your drama at home. Do not get involve in other's. No pooping, where you eat..... Good luck.... Forgot to mention snacks and beverages; bring enough to share. Want to make a good inpression? Bring donuts and coffee for everyone; we say we don't like donuts but who doesn't like a jelly powdered donut?

I completely understand wanting to have a quick reference guide. I don't recall ever using mine on a call but I like knowing I have it in case I need it. I have found it helpful when I don't know what a medication is prescribed for... I use the Informed Brand EMS field guide. ALS version. When I first started I made my own little guide with phone numbers to all the area ER's and all the hospital codes. That didnt last long though. Lol

Ok, first of all, I am by no means defending the original poster or condoning his actions. And I am certainly not condoing everyone elses's actions who have turned a simple judgement error into an online bullying forum. All I am saying is that there are better ways to change what was posted and to change the image of EMS...there is no need to attack people. And second, seriously, who cares if the local colleges don't offer an "associates degree course in 'fryology' or 'fast food preparation'". If that is what someone chooses to do with their life, then it is THEIR profession. Just because you don't see it that way, doesn't mean that it is a bad job...It just means that it is not for you. And if you want to start talking about trying to change the face of EMS that the general public sees, don't even start to frown upon someone who is making an honest living by working as a fry cook...you're just being rude and making EMS personel look like job snobs.

I'm sorry...so yes, the OP is definitely not funny. And everyone does make a good point about checking your grammar and spelling before you post, but seriously, is it necessary to be rude each other? Several of you said the same thing, and not to take sides or anything, but to post replies such as "you should go back to mickey D's and return to your job as the fry manager" is not necessary. You guys said that as part of the public safety community we are always in the fishbowl and that these forums are public, anyone can see them. So doesn't attacking someone with these comments just make you as bad as what you are all complaining about? People can see your attacks on each other, so in my opinion, that makes us as bad as who we are attacking. What if you really were the fry manager at mickey D's and you saw someone say that to someone else as an insult. Wouldn't that offend you? So yes, while we are trying to make EMS a better place for everyone and yes, we are trying to gain the respect that we as providers feel is deserved, but by attacking other posters with insults makes you no better than what you are upset about. Sorry, but that is how I see what just happened in this thread...

I would never let family or friends in the back of the ambulance on a call like this. Sorry, but we're busy and they only get in the way. My experience is that people respect the fact that we have a job to do and they need to give us space to do so. Family and friends are welcome to ride along if they want, but UP FRONT. Oh also BTW, there isn't anything "unique" about this from an EMS standpoint. Despite the circumstances, this is just another patient, and IMHO the job shouldn't change no matter who it is or how it happened.

This is one of the hardest situations we are faced with, and it takes years to master (I have yet too). The problem is, when people are dealing with an unfamiliar stressful situation, they often resort to anger or confrentation very quickly. People do not know what to expect from us, so they let thier "Fight or flight" take over and mistake our calm demenour for nonchalant carelessness. The public sees an ambulance at an MCI and thinks "Quick... load everyone up". I am not one to give too much advice on this, but I'll tell you what works for me. As above; Start your triage. Get all non-involved parties to one area, assign the "green" people to an area near them and anyone with first aid can keep busy comforting them. The reality is, you just have to do a few of these to get a good handle on how to react, and handle the scene.

First of all, you have to be in Command, which you were not. You should have politely hung up the phone, explaining you would contact Medical Control once you assessed the scene. One thing that is useful, is to put the "on-scene medical bystanders" to work. If they are busy working, they have less time to standback and critique you. Give them easy jobs: Give me a head count of how many injured, move the walking wounded over there and start triage, set up my triage areas, anything to get them working. If you look like you are in command, and have a plan, they will listen. If you look lost and scared, and have no plan, they will eat you up and get in your way.

Again I ask, how would you justify removing a functional backup device if your swaparoo with a bougie trick failed? I am not saying you are necessarily wrong; however, if your plan to exchange fails, you could be potentially left without any airway. So, I see this as a procedure with questionable benefit and potential disaster written all over it. I am not so sure the benefit would outweigh the risk in this case. Clearly, I am not convinced with any of the "definitive" airway and "aspiration" risk comments at this point in time. Take care, chbare.

I never said that I have a problem with your expectation of intelligence and compassion for the members of the profession. If you read what I said, I stated that I have a problem with the way you are going about it. You are being very rude and unprofessional. You are being rude about the fry cook profession, and I just feel that there is no reason to speak poorly of another profession just because it is not what you have chosen for yourself...and seriously, this is not the place for arguments. I am not going to sit here and defend what I said about how people here are going about trying to change what the OP said. If you want to change the way people look at EMS, take a look first at the way you are representing it. I don't think that by attacking people, you will gain the respect that you are looking for. You said that if the OP behaves this way on an anonymous web forum, imagine what type of prehospital emergency medical caregiver he will be, but the same could be said for the way you are acting. You are sitting here attacking people, so what could that say about you to someone who doesn't know you? I wasn't trying to anger you or anyone else, all I am saying is that by attacking others, what does that say about us? what does this show about how we give care? Had I not met some amazingly sweet people during my training, and had this been the first place I encountered any EMS employees, I would honestly say that I would be affraid to be working in EMS based on how rude the comments I have read in this thread are. Try actually mentoring someone who has said something that as a community we see unprofessional and uncalled for. Give them some words of wisdom...you say you have been in this business for a long time and I'm sure that you have said something at one time or another that has offended someone. What did they tell you when that happened? Try giving the OP (or anyone for that matter) some advice on the do's and don'ts of EMS and how to better him/herself, instead of just attacking. Spread the wisdom that I'm sure you have gained from your experiences, not the anger you may harvest towards something that was said. How are the new people supposed to learn if everytime they do something wrong, they get yelled at? Thos with more experience should be sharing what they know and making EMS a better place is all I was saying. There is no reason to frown upon a profession that someone else has chosen for themselves, even if we think that it is not a satisfactory job. There is no reason to attack those who say or do things that we do not agree with. We are all working for the same reason and want to accomplish the same thing in our line of work. We do this because this is what we love. We do this becuase we want to help others, so why does helping others seem to only apply to our patients? Let's just stop all the arguing about this and get back to helping those on this site further their education and understanding of EMS and continue building relationships with those who understand what we go through on a daily basis. No one understands this life style like the ones who actually do it for a living, so let's just chill ok?

If you read my response to the OP, you will see that in no way did I condone what he said. But I was able to express my disapproval in a professional, unaccusatory manner. And as for your comment about the fry cook...while you may not have come directly out and said that it is a bad job, the way you referred to the position was clearly meant as an insult. If a fry cook saw how you referred to that position, I can guarantee you they would be offended. I also think it's funny that you found the need to go look up those definitions. I went to college and took my fair share of English classes, so I don't need a dictionary lesson thank you very much. I don't really care what the dictionary definition of a job or trade or profession is...a profession is something that someone does for a living, same as a job. It is something that they choose to do. If you actually asked a fry cook what their profession is, they would tell you that they are a fry cook...so it doesn't really matter what the dictionary definition is, all that matters is what someone thinks of themselves and what they do for a living. And using a "job", any "job", as an insult speaks very poorly of the person that said it. And as for EMS not being a profession known for it's "warm fuzzies or sunshine and belly rubs"...hate to tell you but that is EXACTLY what you are paid to do. You are a patient advocate, and whether you like it or not, sometimes that means holding their hand and being the sunshine in their cloudy day. You are there to take care of them and treat them with respect and compassion. We see people at their worst, and sometimes all they need from us is a hand to hold or a shoulder to cry on. When you come across a hyperventilating patient, how do they tell you to first treat that? They tell you to verbally try to calm them down, to coach them. So you sit there and speak kindly to them, breathe with them and try to get them to relax. No concous patient is going to just let you stick a BVM on their face, so we are taught to, yes I'm going to say it, HOLD THIER HAND and coach them to get their breathing under contol. And that's just one example. And, last time I checked, the schools teach 5 core EMS values, Integrity, Compassion, Accountability, Respect, and Empathy, which spell ICARE respectively. So yes, EMS is all about 'warm fuzzies and sunshine' when it comes to your patients. Those values are what EMS is all about, but why does it have to stop at our patients? Why can't we continue to practice those when it comes to our co-workers? It is a tough profession, don't get me wrong, but why do we have to make it harder on each other by attacking someone who made a mistake? I am not in any way saying that the OP was right in posting what he did. What he posted hit home with me. I have lost people very close to me who have had mental disorders and have done similar things as a means of suicide, so for you to say that by stepping up for him I am condoning his behavior, actually is very offensive. However, just because I do not agree with what he posted, doesn't mean that I should verbally attack him and post insults for the world to see. Attacking someone is NOT the way to get things changed. All it does is put them on the defense, and then they don't listen and nothing changes. Simple as that.