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Couple of things, 11outof10. First off, you're right. A two year degree doesn't make you a paramedic. But you're talking from a far different position from Dwayne. He's been through paramedic school, he knows what it offers and what it doesn't, as do many others here. You're going to realize as you near the end of your paramedic program and after you're done just how little you've learned about medicine--and that's in a two year degree program as much as in a certificate program. It's astounding, it really is, how vast the field of medicine is. Even the specialty of emergency medicine is far more expansive than what we paramedics learn. And you're also right that you WILL learn a LOT during your first couple of years as a paramedic, and indeed, throughout your entire career as a paramedic. But the education you're going to get is hands on learning, not academic education. And THAT is what's severely lacking in EMS. Paramedics with decades of experience still fall short when it comes to academic knowledge, and fall short when it comes to understanding the full breadth of medicine. We learn about emergencies, but the bulk of what we do is not emergent. Are you learning in your paramedic program about eczema or photodermatitis? How about prions? Scoliosis? Ankylosing spondylitis? Multiple myeloma? What about the mechanisms that turn proto-oncogenes into oncogenes? Are you learning about what emergent conditions can result from amyloidosis? I'm guessing not. But you know what? We deal with patients who suffer from these conditions. It's not enough to do the whole IV, O2, monitor and transport with these patients. And it's not enough to simply transport everyone to the hospital. That's bankrupting the system. But there's not hardly a single medical director out there who will let their paramedics treat and release or release and refer--not in the U.S. And you know why? Because we simply do NOT know enough about medicine to be able to accurately distinguish between emergent and non-emergent conditions. Increasing our education is going to do a lot of things for EMS. First and foremost, it is going to make us better providers. Much better providers. Secondly, it's going to raise our professional image. If you can't even mandate a MINIMUM of an Associate's degree, why in the world would you EVER expect someone with an MD to trust you to do ANYTHING to ANY patients? Why would anyone let someone who only has their high school diploma and a 12 month certificate perform ANY sort of advanced medical procedures on themselves or their loved ones? I'll tell you why, because the public knows almost nothing about EMS. If they knew how woefully inept we are, they wouldn't let us so much as touch them except to give them a ride--and nothing but--to the hospital. I don't pull out the "well, I'm a paramedic card" because I am a brand-spankin' newbie, but in this case I am going to make an exception. You may think you know so much about being a paramedic because you're in school to be one, but you obviously haven't been in the program long enough to learn the most valuable lesson paramedic school can teach you: that we are a joke. We're not prepared to hit the streets, we've just got no other choice once our time in paramedic school has ended. So we do the best we can, hope it turns out for the best, and leave it at that. I was in the top of my class in paramedic school. I was praised by my professors and classmates for being "Google" (my pre-Bieber nickname), and my preceptors told me that I needed to go to med school or PA school because I was "too smart" to be just a paramedic. And you know what? I don't know jack shit. I struggle every shift because I feel undereducated to do the job. I feel like I don't know anything and the idea that someone is actually trusting me with their life is terrifying. Because even though I went through a degree program, that still IS NOT ENOUGH. We HAVE to raise the standards. Twelve months is not enough. Two YEARS is not enough. I'm qualified to do the bare minimum, the VERY bare minimum. I need to learn so much more before I will be a real asset to anyone. But I can do the job of a paramedic as it currently is, but that is a transient and fleeting thing because in order to be of any REAL benefit to anyone, I HAVE to learn more. And so do you. And so does Dwayne. And so does every other paramedic on this forum and everywhere in the country. Our patients deserve more than a two year degree, and they certainly deserve more than a 12 month certificate. They deserve professionals who know more than a very narrow window of medicine--and not even the full depth of that. You make think you're a smart guy, and maybe you are. But I'm a smart guy too. And I've been through the degree program. And I'm telling you, I'm not that smart. I'm not as smart as I thought I was and you're not as smart as you think you are. You want to be a good paramedic? You want to elevate the profession? You want your medical director to trust you and give you more freedom? You want ALL paramedics to be able to do more and be given more faith by their medical directors? You cut out this misguided notion that the degree doesn't matter, because it does. And you cut out the idea that paramedic education at any level below that of the few four year degree programs that exist in this country is adequate. Because they're not. And I'm proud of my college, and I think they gave me a good foundation, but neither I nor they think that they're perfect or that their paramedic program doesn't need improvement. You've got a long ways to go. I've got a long ways to go. We've all got a long ways to go. The only difference between you and me, or you and Dwayne, or you and a number of other paramedics on this forum is that you haven't yet realized that that long ways to go begins with our educational system.

You claim that 'education is important', yet you advocate shortcuts. You can't have it both ways! The college I'm currently attending is still in the 'quarter system' as opposed to the 'semester system'. I pull an entire semester in 10 weeks, and I know first hand how 'rushed' everything is! It's absolutely insanity to think that an entire course that takes over a year to complete can be crammed into 12 weeks. I don't care if your ass is in a seat for twelve hours a day, five days a week or not. It's just not enough time. The increased time that you have exposure to the material, the better your chances of retaining it with some understanding of the biomechanics behind it. Those 'Patch Mill' schools will not offer (or require) you to have ANY additional classes in anatomy and physiology. This course alone is an absolute MUST to understand how and why the medications we give are successful, and the effects they have on the body. These types of courses (the 'Patch Mill') are not only doing a disservice to you, but enabling you to do disservice to the patients you treat. Not only are you advocating a shortcut to Medic, you're also advocating a shortcut to higher licensure as well. As long as you support such tactics, you will not be taken seriously as a professional in the healthcare field. This isn't a field where 'speed is what you need' to get through it! People’s lives are in your hands, and they DESERVE to have the person who holds their lives in the balance to be as knowledgeable as possible! As far as the ‘being poor’ is concerned, that’s what something called ‘financial aid’ is for! You may not get a ‘free ride’, but any assistance is better than none at all. As far as being ‘rushed’, there is no ‘maximum age limit’ on becoming a Paramedic. I’m currently 46 and working on my Medic for the first time. As long as you can do the job, the age shouldn’t be an issue. Additionally, with a college degree, it shows the future employer that you have the desire and the drive to stick to a project to its completion. Shortcuts only serve to show that you’ve got no time or interest to dedicate to getting the job done correctly. No one ever said that the path to becoming a good medic was easy or quick. If it were easy and quick, then everybody would be a good medic. Yes, EMS may be a ‘youngster’ compared to the field of medicine, and when compared to public safety (Police and Fire), but it’s been around long enough to be able to stand on its own two feet! In order for the profession to advance, it has to make some serious adaptations to the changing world around it. Part of those changes include the elimination of the ‘shortcuts’ and quit catering to the ‘lowest common denominator’! The only thing that you’re proving is that you don’t have the desire to make this a profession. Andrew Carnegie said: "Anything in life worth having is worth working for.", This also applies to the field of prehospital medical care .

You know..I struck the comment instead of deleting it in case someone had already replied before I got rid of it. I didn't want to make them look silly if they had. What I find interesting is that I edited it at noon, you replied at 1330, and yet there is not strikeout in your post? Why would you remove that?? You make the point brother that you don't have any money, want want to take the quickest class and believe that that is good enough if you can pass 'the test' and are ALREADY planning on taking the easiest, laziest way possible to RN in a couple of years, right? Do I follow you around watching you get a hardon when you drive lights and sirens? Of course not. But I don't have to. You've told us, plain and clear that you are not here to be a good provider. You don't want to be a superior provider. You just want to get shit done as fast, and cheap as possible. Are you really proud of that approach to your paramedic career? Are you suprised that I didn't jump on board to support someone that simply wants to pollute my career with more ignorance? Unfortunately you decided to follow spenac's lead and bitch and complain instead of taking a moment and creating an intelligent argument concerning how you felt about my post and why you felt it was unfair. That's too bad. Based on our other posts I'm confident that there is more to you than that. Did you notice that he even attempted to imply that I gave his post a negative, though I certainly didn't. It's what he does...you are following a really bad example. You post on patient care was stellar, and as I busted your balls here a little bit, if you click on the + in that thread you'll see that it came from me as well. Or did you just decide to be pissed before reading that thread? I want nothing more than to see you succeed and I will do everything I can to help you do so if you want to. But to pretend that taking every shortcut is a good idea, to support you when you throw tantrums instead of debate...that is not support brother. That is feel good bullshit that will make you feel good today yet make you cry when you try and support your family someday. This isn't a hobby man. You don't win because you get to ride an ambulance. It's medicine. I think that you likely have the ability to help people. But the attitude that you've shown in this thread is not a healthy way to go and I won't actively help you fail. In the future it's really pretty simple. If you don't like my posts, ignore them, if they have no value, hit the - button, if they're wrong, then step up to the friggin' plate and explain why. Cryin' don't get it done. Dwayne

I know that for myself that I am hoping that you're going to open your eyes and begin to see that no one is jumping your case at all. People are trying to tell you that some folks have fed you a line of shit, and you've fallen for it. That doesn't mean that your program is bad, nor that you will be a bad provider someday, but only that there are a ton of smart folks her trying to guide you but you keep responding with 'Why does everyone keep picking on me?" You have explained what it means to be a good medic to me, a half assed medic that has had the privilege to work with some really good medics, when you are not yet a medic. You explained to me the value of a college education when, I have one, you don't. I have done medicine on the streets, in Afghanistan, in the hospital, and now remote medicine on the oil spill in the gulf. And yet you want to tell me that my logic and attitude are substandard. Good on you, but be ready to back it up. The 'old guy' mentality I bring? I've been a medic for...say...5-6 years...I don't remember. No old guy shit here brother. Just guy shit. You explain your superior program and yet your skin is so thin that you can't see that you're not being attacked, but given advice, and you need it. There is no one in this thread that hasn't stood me on my head intellectually, and some have knocked my dick so far down into the dirt that I had to scrub for weeks to get the mud off, before I 'got it.' Mike, in just the last several days has called me out twice...once I agreed with him, once I didn't...but I promise you that nowhere in my response to the posts that I didn't agree with will you find the sentiment, "Mike, why are you so mean?" And you know why? Not because I don't care what he thinks..I very much care what he thinks of me and my opinions. But because it would never occur to me that he was calling me out simply to be an asshole. In fact everyone in this thread, including you, have have made me better with their arguments, not by whining. And it will be my privileged to lose arguments to you too if you stay long enough. And lastly, as I need to quit screwing around so that I can go to bed and get back up in a couple of hours..I thought that it was obvious that my comments were directed at your supporting another posters possible path of going to a nooner patch factory instead of a two year college. That was then, if I remember right, followed by you explaining that you intended to take the shortest, least educational route to being an RN. I didn't insult your school, as we hadn't even spoken of your school yet. But the attitude you have brought, up until your last two or three posts had wannabe whacker written all over it. I hope that I am completely off in the ditch as nothing would make me happier than to see you become a rockstar medic and make me eat shit every single day. Also, your last few posts showed some fire! And some actual debate! (Until you puked on your last one...but still, it's movement in the right direction!) You think that I think I'm Mr. Supersmart Medic? Go to my profile, jump back to my first posts and see what a complete whacker moron I was before these fine folks did for me what they're trying to do for you. I like to think that I'm no longer a whacker... But...you need to toughen up princess!! (See, a lesson disguised as an insult?) No one here is attacking you. They are teaching...you just seem to want to be coddled. You've been a basic plenty long enough to know that mentally, emotionally, and sometimes physically, EMS is a contact sport. So don't hold your breath waiting for the velvet gloves to come out, as no one here with any significant value is going to baby you. But if you trip and fall? Every single one of them, yeah, me too, will do everything in their power to make sure that you never hit the ground. It's what I love about EMTCity, and what I love, when it's there, about EMS. Have a good day brother. I'm truly grateful that you've decide to stay and have your say instead of running away like so many do after their first skinned knee. I have a feeling that you will be really good at this, and that you will have a lot to offer, and I look forward to learning from you. Dwayne Note. My apologies for errors. It's late, and I'm really really tired, but am afraid that this thread will be locked and wanted this to go out into the ozone so I didn't proof read.

Dwayne had a giant case of open mouth, insert foot where you were concerned, 11outof10. He tends to do that sometimes. He made an inference he shouldn't'a made. Hopefully he'll man up and apologize. (GIANT HINT, DWAYNE...) He already struck out the statement in his original post with a footnote... but hopefully he'll come back and really apologize. He doesn't take pleasure from sniping n00bs, he actually has a passionate investment in making sure people actually learn. Gets a little excited and shoots off before he thinks sometimes. As far as his age old battle with Spenac, just ignore the side show there... really, there's a long history there and it's really just good for entertainment and not much else at this point. He comes on strong, but he posts a lot that's worth reading. Trust me- just because you're broke and feel pressed for time is not a good reason to skimp on your education. These are the building blocks for your CAREER, not just some fancy letters to put behind your name, hence why some feel so strongly about this issue. Look at some adult learning theories- it is impossible to really absorb and be able to critically think about the material you are covering if you are doing 12 hour class days and 12 hour clinical days with no "down" time to let your brain do what it is supposed to do. There is learning that occurs when you are NOT COVERING the material, and to deprive yourself of that and force yourself just to regurgitate to pass the test is not a great idea. You *are* going to lose a lot more of the material than if you give yourself the time to really absorb it and be able to work with it in the field under pressure. You want to be a GREAT medic, not just a mediocre one, right? Then do yourself the favor of allowing yourself the time to learn. You will be glad you did. There are ways to finance school and afford a good program. Medicine is more than remembering drug calculations and physical skills... it's about critical thinking and that only comes with time and deep understanding of the material you are working with. Wendy CO EMT-B

There is a lot of negativity on this forum towards AMR, and usually most of it comes from people who have never worked for the company. I've worked for AMR for six years, and I'll give you my honest opinion. First, you need to know that the working experience at AMR is going to vary widely depending on where in the country you work. AMR is a large corporation that sets up divisions all over the country, and those divisions are largely locally managed. In some areas of the country, AMR does mostly transfer work, in other areas they hold the PSA for primary 911 response. In some areas it is a really terrible and negative place to work, and in others it is the best service in the region. It really depends where you are. There are some negatives to working for a large company like AMR. The company is by it's private nature profit-driven. That means that there will always be some tension between the employees and management over pay and benefits, and there will always be a little bit of a conflict of interest when balancing emergency work and interfacility transports. My experience is also that the equipment isn't always as top-of-the-line as it is at some volunteer or municipal services. That said, working for a large company has it's benefits. FEMA has contracted with AMR to provide EMS services in the event of national disasters, and as a regular road medic I have had the opportunity to fly all over the country to work. I went to hurricane Katrina and Dean, and I'll be ready to go again if something happens again. That is an exciting opportunity you don't get everywhere. On a more local level, AMR has contracted with large local concert venues and sports facilities, which means I get to do EMS coverage at events like Ozzfest, Warped Tour, professional sports events and shows. I've been backstage at at more major events than I can count, and it was AMR that has given me that opportunity. AMR contracts with local towns around the city, and offers it's employees a really diverse choice of working experiences. I can work as a fly-car medic with volunteers if I like, on an ambulance in the city, or as an intercept medic in a fire-based system. A smaller company would not be able to offer me all of that choice. Even with those opportunities, AMR paramedics and EMTs enjoy some of the highest wages in the state. As far as the day to day management, I will admit that it sometimes sucks. AMR seems to like hiring middle managers that take the job for the wrong reasons, or are otherwise under qualified. There is often a lot of frustration here about day to day things like scheduling, dispatch, and paperwork. Recently my division has been cutting the number of ambulances on the road, which has caused a lot of frustration and anger. That said, this company for the most part allows us to get in our trucks and go out for the day to work EMS on our own terms. Despite the frustrations that do exist, I really feel like I am in charge of how my day goes, and I am allowed to make individual decisions regarding my scenes and my patient care. If you are interested in working at AMR, my advice to you would be to seek advice locally. The experience will vary widely depending on where you are, and only people in the system will be able to tell you how things really are. Don't give up on the company though just because it is large and private. I am very happy that I chose to work for AMR, and it is possible that you could be also. Best of luck. EDIT: Sorry, forgot to comment about the hiring process. Again your experience may vary, but around here the potential new-hires get two exams: a written that is just like the state EMT-B written (probably just like NR), and a practical that involves a few NR-esque stations. As I remember there was a trauma assessment, and an airway management station when I was hired 6 years ago. It wasn't crazy, but it is more than you see at a lot of other places.

Well said!

I am here, all you have to do is say my name three times like beetlejuice. Good point beiber, you are correct, it is sad that this is such a racist country. Now before you all get mad, let me check the dictionary; racist: The notion that ones own ethnic stock is superior. Most everyone in this room is racist, but can't admit it. Here is a little self-test that I have mentioned several times, but cant get anyone to fess up to. To see if you are racist, ask this question to yourself: If I am white, have i ever dated or made love to an african american ? If you are african american, have I ever dated or made love to a white person ? If the answer is no, you are a racist. Even if you are non-racist enough to have done the deed, you would never admit it in this forum for fear of how you will be judged ? Which may make you more racist than the person that never has. Furthermore, every guy in here at some point in his life has done the fattest, ugliest chick (of his own race) because he was hard up and drunk, but never seems drunk enough to cross the jungle-fever line (what does that say) ? Fortunately, the women are a little more decerning, as far as number of partners, but just as racist as thier male counterparts. And please spare me all the comments about how you are best friends with the one AA person at your workplace. You have never had dinner at his/her house, or invited them to yours (at least 98% of you have not).

Your logic does not work here, homosexuality is a mental disease, I am not mentally ill, so I would not sleep with a homosexual. I have no problem hanging out with homosexuals in a social or workplace setting, so I do not think I qualify as a homophobe. But back to the original point, I still hear the crickets chirping, where are all those non racist who date everyone ?