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The Troll calling them Ogres? Pot calling the kettle black...no? In what manner? But you fail to mention why they would do such an unprofessional thing. And what did he do about it? On every call or just ones to your house? No Comment, there are enough about NJ EMS here already. Find out what the source is. It may not appear so, but I sympathize with your plight. Unfortunately you haven't really done anything to provide us with information regarding your situation, all you've done is call them names and point fingers at them. Why did they yell at you for 15 minutes? Maybe they had what they thought was a good reason. For all I know you took offense to how they were treating your mother and you threatened them without realising that they were actually helping her. Maybe the police come on calls with them because they have felt threatened by you in the past. How do they mistreat your mother? Do they yell at her? Demean her? Or are they providing a necessary medical treatment to her that you don't understand and when you try to interfere they are forced to restrain you? It just strikes me a bit odd that someone would come here to complain and seek direction from us when he could pursue this along proper channels just by looking in a phone book for the number, filing a complaint with the police, talking to the staff at the hospital....

This discussion so far rather highlights CHBARE's point about the student in question. How do you really reconcile a theological belief that requires blind faith with no evidence short of parables and unverifiable stories that have been handed down over thousands of years with what appears to be the need for quantifiable evidence? The two positions are inherently opposite and, despite the ability of some who claim the contrary, totally irreconcilable. This is the benefit of education. Collect as much information from as many viewpoints on a given topic as is possible. Weigh the evidence. Weigh what can and cannot be verified. The learning and development of one's own belief system stems from this. It's certainly not easy. There's a lot of work involved including the realization that one will be, at some point, ostracized for beliefs held. Unfortunately, many aren't interested in doing the work.

Hey guys! Thanks for the warm welcome! I'm a EMT from North Eastern, PA. I've been an EMT for about a year now, Paid city ALS units primarily. Anyways, I'm going through the process to begin Medic school in the fall, and I have allot of questions! Not only do I have questions, but I'd love to share my experience's with anyone who is thinking about the path I have chosen. Paid EMT- Volunteer Fireman on primarily a Truck company. and I Volunteer EMS in a more country area nearby. I've been a fireman for 6 years now. I plan on making a career out of emergency services in some way shape or form! Again, thank's to all those who welcome me, I've been impressed with the content I've found here and I wouldn't want to be anywhere else! -Picc

OK, that is pretty funny right there.

Well. I think that Mike EMT has officially settled this argument, as he has noted that he spent most of his career in law enforcement, and criminal justice, so... full stop, continue CPR, and ignore the doctor. Clearly, this doctor must be an incompetent fool, as he works for a nursing home facility care must be determined by the highest level of care on scene, which in this case is a basic EMT employed by the local FD. Seriously though, what was the nurse thinking when she called back stating that the pt was now alive and no longer required EMS?

Well Mike, I think it's an interesting point you make there. The way that healthcare works here is that everyone is insured and so everyone has equal acces to primary, secondary and tertiary care. We have nurses in dispatch that triage calls and give appropriate advice. If an ambulance is deemed not necessary then the caller will be referrred to another pathway (usually the family practitioner but there are other channels, e.g. mental health services). If we do get called to someone that, retrospectively, doesn't need an ambulance I will refer them myself to one of the alternative pathways. Carl

Doctors don't work under protocols, they use medical judgement. I would have a huge problem with anyone starting CPR in this case if I had already pronounced the pt. It becomes assault/decimating a corpse/whatever your state law calls it at that point and I sure as hell would push the point with your medical director and/or state medical director. It has nothing to do with ego and is all about dignity for the pt and family.

Just a curiosity I've had for decades. Was born a RC and feared the nuns with a ruler in grade school , knew the mass in traditional latin, Leaned away after seeing some of the questionable acts of the priest as an alterboy. Tried reading & studying the Bible and then in the Navy was exposed to many different beliefs, all founded in individual leanings of the "TRUTH". Met some born again christians while in the Navy and found them to be too far out there to be believable. Saw horrors that a true GOD could not allow to happen to his/ her children, Saw people murdered in "the name of the Lord" , I guess I'm one of those folks that as I got older found myself questioning what I had been led to believe as the truth and watched those truths fall by the wayside. The more you know::: the less you know as the truth ????? Now as an old guy, I'm set in my ways and have a pretty good idea of what the afterlife will hold. Worm food as my ashes are spread over the ground

Pants specific for lefties? Sounds like left-handedness is a disability.

Also, I'm not sure why you want a "legitimate definition" as this conversation is broadly about dealing with people who experience conflicts with their belief systems, religious or otherwise. Therefore, the context of this thread is broad enough that specific definitions are not really needed.

FACT! Especially outside of Dayton near doczilla....juuust sayin I used to drive I-70 between MD and Denver a lot and Ohio was byfar the worst when it came to cops.

To clarify, I was not talking about a piece of paper. I meant if the patients own physician, as well as family are asking for no resusitation, then I am comfortable not bringing back an elderly person from a lodge, to put them on life support in the ICU for a few days at $25,000 a day just to feed my own interest. (estimated dollar figure there). The other way to look at it is: A Dr. has "Called the code". I am no one to undermine him in this circumstance. If this ws one of the 25y/o kitchen staff, I'd be singing a different tune of course. But this is not.

Paramedic mike, why didn't you come on earlier? You could have saved me a lot of fumbling :-) Blind faith in anything is stupid and lazy. Chbare - point taken. The fact that someone had the insight to postulate antimatter is amazing. Einstein predicted it as an offshoot of E=mc2 (I know - facetious). Matters of faith have been greatly hampered by a system that discourages questioning. Christianity was hijacked by a bunch of guys (Constantine - who made Christianity the state religion nevertheless remained pagan till his deathbed when he was too weak to protest his baptism) concerned with temporal power over spiritual freedom. I can only state what I have found to be true at this point in time. I am not stupid or lazy, but my faith has enabled me to survive in situations where most have not. I am not the only one. It's what I got and is my facet.

Unfortunately Girl, your statement makes Mike's point as it's no different from the many, many Christians that we've all encountered, "I know the truth because I've studied and considered harder than you have. If you don't also see my truth then you have no idea what you're talking about." I'm sorry to see you present your point in such a way. I am of the opinion, not directed at any post(er) in this thread, that an intelligent person that will disallow urban legend and superstition can't read the bible with a scientific mind and not have to bend way too many things to make them fit. I'm kind of on board with Penn Jillette, "The easiest way to make an Athiest is to have them read the bible." I wanted to be a Christian in the worst way. Everyone I know is Christian, including having several preachers in my family. I really wanted to be part of that club. But I found no possible way for me to get there through the bible. And continuing my education made that even less possible. I too often feel that there is "something else" but can't really identify it. But for me there has become no question that it's not possible for it to be Christianity if the Bible is our only source of information for defining that. How to verify my 'something else?' I can't within a scientific context, but I've kind of lost the need to do so as my something seems more in line with the Buddhist phylosophy...it mostly focuses on myself, without a need to convert anyone, or judge anyone. As it harms no one I find no need to nail down the exact justifications for doing so. It seems like if I stay in a place of "good energy" that my life works pretty well, 'bad energy', less well, though of course there are a million more ways to explain why my life might work better while making decisions based on a positive attitude rather than a negative one. I've just sort of run out of steam at the half century mark for spending the rest of my life studying psychology and philosophy... :-) Man, what a great question and an amazing group of people to discuss it! Short anwer. I had doubts regarding my Christian upbringing prior to college level education, but found it impossible to continue within that belief system after being exposed to science based principles.

As in any crisis, I would have them employ HALT. If they are hungry, angry, lonely or tired, they need to deal with those things first. Then I would remind them that crisis means "turning point". It is a moment of danger but also great opportunity. I would then encourage the person to find a support system. If it can't be me, I would strongly suggest they find someone that will be willing to sit and listen - to accompany them on this journey - to help reframe things, present other points of view and offer encouragement and support. I would suggest they pray - not in the "our father who art in heaven" formulaic way, but in anyway they feel comfortable talking to the great unknown. Think, process, face, deal with and get through. And congratulate them. This crisis and difficulty is a gift. Take it and go with it.

I'm sorry...there is no place in EMS for Lefties.... :-)

Yes. Specifically from a theological standpoint the more religious instruction I received the more my views changed. The more science education I received the more my theological views changed.

Craig-- I must ask, why would you start CPR?

Well callee the number you left, talked to some lady. She awnsered my questions but one thing didn't make sense, apparently practical exams are only good for one year therefore I shouldn't have been able to take my last test. But she awnsered my questions and I found out I have until July 31st to pass so at least I know it now, thanks for the help guys.