bleep

Totally agree. Which is why I pointed out that I'm talking about the BASIC requirements of a PCP program - which absolutely does NOT require 2 years to teach. Kudos to Ontario for clearly going above and beyond those "basic" requirements. However, by doing so, they have created the same problem that Alberta has - there is no way to have national reciprocity if the programs aren't the same. This topic has been debated hotly at PAC and ACoP educational meetings. The provinces just don't compare equally. PAC set the minimum standard for PCP curriculum and CMA accredits the programs accordingly. What I've been saying all along is that the BASE, ABSOLUTE MINIMUM standard for PCP is inferior to what AB teaches, which is WHY they refuse to change to the PCP title. Clearly, the absolute minimum is also inferior to what Ontario teaches (although, I have to interject, length of program does NOT equal quality... having personally done a few 4 year degrees myself, I could have easily completed them in less than 2 if someone had bothered to trim the fat, but oh no, they don't make money that way). YES, Ab is being a "stick in the mud" regarding the title, but they recognize the problem that was created with the implementation of the NOCP. Not only do they recognize it, it has been brought up nationally and the issue clearly has merit, as a committee was formed to work on addressing the concerns. Even at the PAC AGM, it was pointed out that while there has been some standardization, changes still need to be made. I quote: "The National Occupational Competency Profile (NOCP) for paramedicine review is well under way.... It is important to remember that the NOCP was a consensus document and it was necessary to have full spectrum stakeholder buy in. The gold standard was Alberta and their competency. The Alberta standard has managed to remain intact while other provinces have come up from what they had to the NOCP and others have slid down. Five years later we have had some stabilization and reexamining paramedic practice in Canada and new best practice and evidence based medicine there will be some changes coming to the revised NOCP." - President's Report - PAC 2007 AGM. The NOCP - and thus the title PCP - as a national title is not quite working yet. AB will tell you that (and clearly has, by their reluctance to change the title), and I'm willing to bet that ONT will tell you that too. The good news is - PAC is aware that there are issues, and are working on it. The bad news is, change is extremely slow. It takes approximately 2 years to have any changes to the NOCP themselves approved and adjusted. Therefore - don't expect the title of EMT in AB to change anytime soon.

This statement is absolutely appalling to me, and disrespects every practitioner out there. Furthermore, by doing this you are opening yourself up to legal problems, not to mention the possibility of being reported to ACoP for misrepresenting yourself. As Heidi says, educating the public with CORRECT information is the best route to take. All you're doing is perpetuating ignorance.

Well... just because Nurses of today are better educated (supposedly) than nurses of 25 years ago, well, that doesn't mean that they need to change their title. Don't forget that even those EMTs from back in the day have had to update their training and do continuing competency through ACP every year. (Effective or not). IF they're still active. Secondly, if that's what you think of when you think of EMTs... that's too bad. I think that the general perception is vastly more educated than that. Instead of asking an entire province to change their system, why not try changing your perception? What's in a name... not as important as what YOU bring to that title. Thirdly, I wouldn't worry so much about how you are perceived (and I haven't yet figured out whose perception you are concerned about beyond your own), so much as the actual quality of care that you are providing. Let's not get too confused over what is important and what is less so. If it's the national/international EMS community that you're concerned about (and, again, I don't know if you are) by all means, call yourself a PCP or PCP/EMT and if asked, just indicated that the EMT covers a different scope than PCP, therefore you are recognized as both. *shrug* makes sense to me.

PS - the ACP education consortium is being held next week... I suspect that this will be a topic that is brought up and discussed in depth... as usual.

As someone who has been part of the development of an EMT program, I can assure you that I am very familiar with many PCP programs. The problem is multi-faceted, and unfortunately, despite the attempt to set a national standard, the discrepencies between PCP programs is quite extreme. Hmmm I think it does depend on the student too, of course. You know, you can lead a horse to water... I have to say, it's my experience that it can be very difficult to compare. I have had Sask PCPs (and indeed PCPs from many other provinces) come and apply to the EMT program (it happens often, really), and only a very small percentage of them even make it past the entrance exams. So... kudos to your education, but don't assume that it's the standard. And vice versa - I will clearly tell you that there are schools that are NOT meeting the AOCP currently... and the students from those schools rarely pass ACP either. I've been told this problem will be "taken care of" in the next few months... When we "revised" our program to meet/exceed the NOCP it simply meant that we had to include a lot of BS competencies that were actually already covered in our EMR courses. So, a lot more paperwork; in no way more knowledge. The in-depth knowledge that is required to meet the AOCP is far more difficult. If your school went above and beyond to meet the NOCP, bravo to them. I can assure you that it is not standard to do so. It has also been publically noted that once ACP required all AB schools to apply for accreditation, most schools changed their cirriculum, as required, to include the NOCP. There are concerns that in doing so, many programs are sacrificing teaching the AOCP in depth to the extent that they were prior to the introduction of the NOCP. This is partially why we have seen a dramatic decrease in the percentages of students passing ACP - which tests ONLY AOCP and not NOCP. Food for thought. As you may or may not be aware, at the last AGM a motion was made to get rid of the requirement for all AB schools to offer the PCP program. The motion was stayed until the next AGM, but it's something to consider. I completely believe you that your recent EMT exam showed poor knowledge from many students. I can tell you, having received the statistics from that exam, that there are several programs in this province who will have some explaining to do, as less than 50% of their students managed to pass the exam. I have argued this point until I'm blue in the face, that there needs to be some accountability from the schools who produce these dismal statistics. According to ACP, that accountability will be coming in 2008 and it won't be pretty. Are you on Facebook? On the Calgary EMS group (which may now be closed to the public, actually), there was a very lively discussion on the whole PCP/EMT debate. I personally believe that the PCP title is misleading. I also find that most Paramedics in AB find it very offensive to have someone who has as little as 6 months of education calling themselves a Paramedic, compared to the 2-3 years they spent earning the title. It may seem petty to some, but I can see their point. You ask "If AB EMT's have just as extensive knowledge of Ilness, Injury, and A&P as the rest of Canada why would the not want to be called "Paramedics"?" That's because, in many cases, it is believed that their knowledge is superior to 'the rest of Canada' (not specifically, but the general PCP standard), and thus calling themselves PCPs is actually a step back. Don't shoot the messenger, by the way, these are not my opinions, but the explanations I've been provided over the last 5 years as these changes have been occurring. One Paramedic (that's EMT-P) once told me that to him, having a PCP called a "Paramedic" is the same as someone with a certificate or diploma calling themselves a PhD. Dust - I agree with your general assessment, but I don't think that the title EMT causes anyone to compare it with the American title of same. I have never, ever heard of that being a problem, except perhaps on a forum like this - luckily, in this situation it can be easily cleared up by a simple explanation. Geez can I have my coffee now? Long story short (too late), get used to the EMT title, it won't be changing anytime soon. And be careful about calling yourself a "paramedic" around EMT-Ps, you won't make any friends that way, whether you agree with their reasoning or not.

As someone who has been part of the development of an EMT program, I can assure you that I am very familiar with many PCP programs. The problem is multi-faceted...a good effort was made to create a national program, but many programs are finding the NOCP lacking, and thus training above and beyond (which is what it sounds like you got at your school). Hmmm I think it does depend on the student too, of course. You know, you can lead a horse to water... I have to say, it's my experience that it can be very difficult to compare. I have had Sask PCPs (and indeed PCPs from many other provinces) come and apply to the EMT program (it happens often, really), and only a very small percentage of them even make it past the entrance exams. So... kudos to your education, but don't assume that it's the standard. And vice versa - not all EMT programs are currently meeting the AOCP (and audits from ACP have not been done in a long time), and this is evident by the poor averages being put up on the ACP exams. I've been told that there will be a crackdown on this (schools who don't cover the AOCP and thus have a poor passrate) in the next few months, and it won't be pretty. When we "revised" our program to meet/exceed the NOCP it simply meant that we had to include a lot of BS competencies that were actually already covered in our EMR courses. So, a lot more paperwork; not more knowledge. The in-depth knowledge that is required to meet the AOCP is far more difficult. If your school went above and beyond just meeting the NOCP, bravo to them. It sounds like they went far more in depth than is REQUIRED. I can assure you that it is not standard to do so. It has also been publically noted that once ACP required all AB schools to apply for accreditation, most schools changed their cirriculum, as required, to include the NOCP. There are concerns that in doing so, many programs are sacrificing teaching the AOCP in depth to the extent that they were prior to the introduction of the NOCP. This is partially why we have seen a dramatic decrease in the percentages of students passing ACP - which tests ONLY AOCP and not NOCP. Food for thought. As you may or may not be aware, at the last AGM a motion was made to get rid of the requirement for all AB schools to offer the PCP program and be accredited. The motion was stayed until the next AGM, but it's something to consider. The potential implications of such a move is quite significant. I completely believe you that your recent EMT exam showed poor knowledge from many students. I can tell you, having received the statistics from that exam, that there are several programs in this province who will have some explaining to do, as less than 50% of their students managed to pass the exam. I have argued this point until I'm blue in the face: there needs to be some accountability from the schools who produce these dismal statistics. According to ACP, that accountability will be coming in 2008 and it will be heavy-handed. Are you on Facebook? On the Calgary EMS group (which may now be closed to the public, actually), there was a very lively discussion on the whole PCP/EMT debate. A lot of EMT-Ps believe that the PCP title is misleading. I also find that many Paramedics in AB find it very offensive to have someone who has as little as 6 months of education calling themselves a Paramedic, compared to the 2-3 years they spent earning the title. It may seem petty to some, but I can see their point. You ask "If AB EMT's have just as extensive knowledge of Ilness, Injury, and A&P as the rest of Canada why would the not want to be called "Paramedics"?" That's because, in many cases, it is believed that their knowledge is superior to 'the rest of Canada' (not specifically, but the general PCP standard), and thus calling themselves PCPs is actually a step back. Don't shoot the messenger, by the way, these are not my opinions, but the explanations and information I've been provided over the last 5 years as these changes have been occurring. One Paramedic (that's EMT-P) once told me that to him, having a PCP called a "Paramedic" is the same as someone with a certificate or diploma calling themselves a PhD. Dust - I agree with your general assessment, but I don't think that the title EMT causes anyone to compare it with the American title of same. I have never, ever heard of that being a problem, except perhaps on a forum like this - luckily, in this situation it can be easily cleared up by a simple explanation. Geez can I have my coffee now? Long story short (too late), get used to the EMT title, it won't be changing anytime soon. And be careful about calling yourself a "paramedic" around EMT-Ps in AB, you won't make any friends that way, whether you agree with their reasoning or not.

Uhhhh if it was not the late afternoon I would have a long, clearly written response for you. However, it's late afternoon and I just hit the proverbial wall. So hang with me, this could be less-than-well-written. Let me just say - if someone is belittling your EMT title vs PCP title... they're backwards. AB hasn't changed to PCP because they see it as a step backwards. The basic requirements for the PCP program (the NOCP) is not as in depth or challenging as the requirements for EMT (AOCP). Note that I said "basic". Some PCP programs go above and beyond those basic requirements. They do not have to, however, and many don't. As an educator, I can tell you that the EMT program has become progressively more and more difficult each year. We have had EMT-Ps tell us that they don't think they could have passed our EMT program. You have to understand that the "basic" requirements of a PCP program are inferior to the "basic" requirements of an EMT program. Hence the issues you may face if you call yourself a PCP in Alberta. Be proud of earning the title EMT (the "A" was abolished a few years ago, another long story)... PCP won't be recognized in AB for an indefinite length of time, ACP has dug in their heels on this one, refusing to lower their competencies to the PCP level. However, since all programs in AB are required to meet (and exceed) the NOCP, all programs are entitled to advertise their programs as EMT/PCP in order to facilitate national reciprocity. I apologize in advance if this post makes no sense. I've posted on this subject far more eloquently on the paramedicweb... darnit, shoulda cut and paste.

depends. shared accommodation is everywhere and not that expensive. you can rent for anywhere from $800 - $1800/month. depends how savvy you are. the market is actually slowing down significantly and housing prices are dropping quickly. a friend of mine started with CEMS a few months ago, and after deductions, clears about $1600 every two weeks. Not bad for a first year EMT. and don't forget that there is mucho overtime to be had if you want it.

Approximately $23 per hour for new EMTs. I can't remember exactly what the new contract was but it's around $23 I'm sure.

Wow. Really stretching there, eh? I work with various services because I like the variety and as an educator I believe that it would be remiss of me to assume that what happens at one service happens at all services. I said nothing about having to do so to make ends meet. I make my ends meet as an Instructor and adviser, thanks for asking. In addition, my comment was directed to the accusation that the level of care being provided in Alberta is sub-par. No mention was made of a need to work at various services to make ends meet. Secondly, how exactly do you expect new practitioners to gain experience? Did you all come into this profession with some magic button that gave you this all-important experience without having to actually, oh, I don't know, work to gain experience? And finally, in no way did I indicate that I believed that the observation was directed at me. I was defending those new practitioners who are being beat-down by cynical, immature, egotistical "experienced" practitioners who somehow believe that their experience (and in Comanche's case, what, is it, 3, 4 years of experience we're talking about?) somehow gives them the ability to speak on behalf of the level of care being provided within an entire province. I have no doubts about the personal level of care that I provide, and nowhere in my post did I make any accusation that I felt that I personally was being accused of providing such poor care. Never mind SpellCheck, (oooo two spelling mistakes in over 400 words, shame on me) how about Reading Comprehension 101?

Yeah, uh, my JOB is to look at the big picture of EMS. If you're that bitter, cynical and unhappy, maybe it's time for you to move on to a new career. I'm SO tired of this type of behavior in this industry. You all keep blaming the new hires for the downfall of EMS, and that is BS. It's the egotistical, jaded, cynical people like yourself that are the problem. I've been in EMS for 15 years, and it sickens me to hear these kinds of comments. You are supposed to be a role model for new recruits. Maybe things aren't ideal right now because of the labour shortage, but spouting off this kind of garbage is only making a difficult situation that much worse. How about stepping up to the plate and providing those hires with some leadership and oh, I don't know, MOTIVATION to stay in their jobs and put their hearts into it. I see students graduating from programs these days with a higher level of skills and knowledge than I ever could have imagined having at that level. They are passionate, determined, and deserve every chance they are given. It pains me to think that they could end up partnered with someone that is this cynical. How quickly will that end their love for this profession? How will that help the situation at all? It will only make it worse. Cynacism is a disease, and you're a carrier. I'm no blind optimist but I prefer to work hard to be part of the solution rather than part of the problem. You should try it some day.

I strongly disagree with this statement, and think it is highly insulting and inappropriate. I work with various services in this province, and the general concensus is that the quality of care is going up. The people getting hired these days don't have a lot of experience, but that does not mean they cannot provide good care. Exceptional care, even. They'll get the experience they need fast enough. I'm going to assume that you didn't mean to make a gross generalization that insinuated that every service in Alberta provides sub-par care. Maybe your service has had struggles; that is no reason to slam the entire province. Sheesh. :roll:

NICE WORK!

The good news is, the next few days were filled with letters supporting the actions of EMS. EMS Letter

WendyT said: "I wonder how many people that are in EMS that have something like this and not so much bullimia or anorexia. But something along the line of binge eating or starvation." uhhh binge eating... starvation.... = anorexia.