aussiephil

I suggest you re-read what i said regarding retained officers. They are paid to be retained & paid for each call, thus there is a necesity for them to maintain skills, they are also paid for their sceduled training times. If YOU had read many of the paid v volly arguments you would see my opinion on this topic. I will not rehash it here. You are right, I have no idea about surpression because I choose not to. I chose EMS because I am interexsted in prehospital medicine, not fire surpression & I am still to see any link between fire & EMS to link them together. We are called to back up & stand by at fires, I know what os necesarry to treat fire officers & other victims as required. What you have highliggted in this paragraph is that fire is & should be stand alone & a specialty area. Yep, it does. Interesting, you are all for EMS but every response you have given is fire first, maybe this shows your priority.. Your training is not in question, what is in question is the validity of FIRE yo run EMS. Again, you are right, I do not need to know about surpression. I don not WANT to know about surpression. What I do know is that, in your words from a previous post in this thread, 70% of the work done by your service is EMS, logically, this means 30% of work is done by fire, either in surpression or rescue. That is a hell of a lot of down time for fire. That is why they look to justify their existance. In todays economic climate, people are looking to their governments to take leadership in economic managment & fiscal responsibility. How can having that many firemen sitting around for 70% of the time (regardless of on station training) be considered economicly & fiscally responsible? Allow mne to elaborate, yes we work 10 hour shifts with 14 hours on call, we work 8 days on, then have 6 days off & we are paid extreemly well for our time, skills & knowledge. We are not prisoners at home, however we have to consider what we are doing when on call to ensure we are available. If they are paid, then they are not volly. Nice justification there for not looking at alternatives. It is not outdated. Many areas are now looking at the viability of fire because of their oversupply of downtime. It is concevable that we could halve the number of metro stations to work on a retainer system. If peoples interest is dwindleing, then they are not paying enough. I am still to be convinced that with a 70/30 spilt in workload, there is justifivcation for that many fire officers to be working each day.

EMS does not have Penis Envy, just the desire to be stand alone & a recognised profession in our own right. Besides we are not the ones with a need to hold a hose.......

In your dreams turnip & they are all wet........

Canadian motorcyclist...... For those of you who have lived in snowy conditions, you can probably relate to this story of a frozen carburettor On a bitterly cold winter's day in northern British Columbia, an RCMP constable on patrol came across a motorcyclist who was swathed in protective clothing and helmet, stalled by the roadside, "What's the matter?" "Carburettor's frozen." was the terse reply. "Pee on it, That'll thaw it out." "Can't." "OK, I'll show you." The constable lubricated the carburettor as promised, The bike started and with a wave, the rider drove off. A few days later the office received a note of thanks from the father of the biker. It began: "On behalf of my daughter who recently was stranded...."

I doubt it has because it is a rediculous notion, like linking fire & EMS. They are seperate professions. I will let you believe how important fire is & training is. It can be done for those who are retained as well, quite sucessfully. How about those members here who are volly EMS, they have to train & do everything in their own time, why shouldnt fire as well, if they do not get the call volume. Sorry, relevance is what, Oh wait, it continues i love seeing fire justify themselves. Hmmm. Lets think about this. Big strong firemen come to my building with big hoses that pump water. Building is on fire, so we have some fire damage, there is smoke associated with the fire that damages areas where the fire wasnt, the these big strong firemen destroy everything else with the water from their hoses. Same result as if it burned down really. Where I am, where call volumes are low, we do not have a station that is manned 24/7/365 for fire. We do not even have it everywhere for EMS. The hose monkeys are on a retainer of a set nominal amount each month. For that they are expected to attend specified training periods, vehicular maintenence, equipment maintenence etc. Then, each time they get a call they respond from home. They are required to live within a certain radius of the station & have to meet time requirements to attend. For this they get paid. In a similar vain, EMS, as I am are rostered to station from 0800 - 1800 daily, 7 days per week, 365 per year, but from 1800 - 0800 we work from home, on a call out basis. Does it extend response times, marginally, but we can be on scene to the majority of cases in under 10 mins from the time booked. Think outside the box. What you do may not be the best option, & vice versa, but the reliance on fire in EMS should stop. The only way to do that is to seperate the services & keep em seperate. Fund the according to workload, & yes, they should be run like a business, especially when public money is being used, but they will always run at a loss. The general populus will accept EMS (&fire & police) running at a loss because of the service we provide. I do not however agree that EMS should 'Bill' patients. We do not see the Police go to a neighbourhood dispute, resolve the problem & say 'Sir, for calling us we have a minimum charge of $200, then cause we arrested the guy & we have to do statments, that will be $50 per statment......'. We are a utility for the public to use. We are funded by them in some way shape or form, we are here to serve them. Lets forget that we have to generate revenue from them & investigate alternatives that will properly fund EMS into the future as a profession we can all be proud of.

so why not have sanitation medics or ff/sewer workers (that one would work i think). That is the same logic. The whole point is that EMS is & always should be a seperate entity. We are a government agency here. We have our own identity & are not a 'part' of another agency, we are incorporated into tha health department. but we are a stand alone part of that department. We do not cross into another profession, like nursing, unless we are specifically asked due to the case we present overwhelming the resources of the hospital. Workload is relevant. Why should a fire put a drain onto the limited budgets by providing a 24/7/365 service when they are not active for the most part. If as you said EMS is undertaking 70% of your workload, then maybe, just maybe that says tat fire surpression is secondary & should be on a 'retained' or on call basis. Then maybe the punters would actually get value for money out of the fire department.

You miss the point. Put simply EMS call volume, as you stated shows that EMS work accounts for the majority of calls. To claim that defies logic. The total revenue will be placed into a fund, then divided up. so the funding that comes from EMS will support Fire. Relevance? Why not remove medics completly from the engine & run a seperate entity of EMS? As I said, Fire is using EMS to justify their existance. This is the problem. EMS, while performing the bulk of the work, you stated 70%, they are treated as second class behind fire. If they are doing the bulk of the work, & there is an insistence on combined services, should not the one with the bulk of the work have the main control? This can also be achieved with a properly staffed EMS service & proper interservice co-operation. Reduction of on scene time, while should be minimised, should not be an excuse for handing fire EMS to run. Most patients are quite safe to wait for backup & they are not really time critical, there are of course exceptions to this.

Dont just be a yes man for the monkeys above. Be your own man, show those on the front line that you have a backbone & are not just a puppet of those above.

Kiwi. It is simply a way for fire to justify their existence. I have asked 46young some simple questions relating to revenue & expenditure, maybe I should add to that the number of EMS calls run by his service & the number of fire calls run by his service, as a comparison of percentyage of total revenue.........

I dont do pictures, sorry. Get well soon mate

Whle there is some generalisation here, in your service, as you will or should have access to the data, how much revenue does fire generate, as a percentage, compared to EMS? In your service, what is the expenditure for fire, as a percentage of total revenue, compared to EMS? In your service, on each shift, as a percentage, how many are dedicated EMS, how many are dedicated fire? Why is wanting to see EMS as a seperate entity such a negative? As for education, I agree that those in administration should hold appropriate qualifications, but my question to you is should we be encouraging those in the field to be undertaking those qualifications so that, when they are in their utopian position, they at least have an understanding of what it is like at street level? I can only speak for my service, but we have people in management roles who, while holding qualifications in Paramedical Sciences, have never actually works on the streets & have gained further qualifications to climb the corporate ladder. EMS in not like other professions where the theory remains the same. We confront challenges every day that need individual solutions that may never be used again. These cost money & unless a person has a proper understanding as to why, without looking at just the numbers.

Maybe that is because many resent the fact that EMS, in a Fire based system, is treated like a second class citizen. People are entitled to resent what is currently there, that is how change begins. If enough people resent it, & the right people hear it, then change will happen. It is all done with mirrors. As has been stated in this thread numerous time, Fire want EMS because it props up their workload. Let look at facts. EMS attends more cases per month than fire. EMS is more cost effective. Now the one I hate, EMS produces more income than fire. How it is run is not relevant, the simple fact is EMS should stand alone. It is a seperate profession, yes I used the word profession. U see here is the problem, EMS is basic healthcare. Sorry guys, lets be realistic, we provide basic healthcare.The majority of us who are looking at this site come from what are considered First World countries. The US is the 'leader' of the free world aparently, yet how many people DONT call an ambulance because they are too scared they cannot pay the bill? If I am in some poor, nackwater 3rd world country, i can get better healthcare than the US FREE, through the aid chanels. Doesnt the Unites States have a responsibility to ALL of its citizens to provide BASIC healthcare (as a right) to everyone? What you are proposing is, in an idealistic world, fantastic. Reality is we do not live in an idealistic world. Change has to start somewhere. To shove your head up your ass & say we cant change unless we all have a degree is a nonsense. Some of the best medics I know dont have a degree. The onus however should be on the employer to ensure that proper training is provided & if they see medic mills are failing, then there should be a reporting mechinism & investigation. This has no relevance to combined Fire/EMS. If they were looking at reality, removing their heads from their asses, then they would see that EMS should be the dominant partner in the equasion, not the poor cousin. EMS should be running Fire, not Fire departments running EMS. Until you change te attitude that EMS is a way for Fire depts to top up budgets so they can buy a new BRT, the problem will always exist.

Yes it is Fire bashing Lone, but, it is also highlighting the fact that EMS is a seperate identity. For too long Fire have been using other occupations to rely on them getting enough work to justify their existance. This has to end. Let Fire play hero & play with their hoses, let us treat the patients & get them to hospital.

I have, for the most part proves it doesnt work

JD, i would suggest that the search feature at the top right of your screen would be off assistance, however, here is the link Suspension Ends for NYC EMTs in Bagel Shop Incident - JEMS.com

This should not be allowed. Keep fire away from ambulances at all costs. Dont give them any justification for their existance. Their job is to fight fires, lift heavy things & try to resemble something with some intelligence. EMS should always have 2 full trained officers on each ambulance, that protects the officers & the patient. Next thing these hose monkeys will want medical training. Keep em out.

A gentleman had an appointment to see the urologist who shared offices with several other doctors. The waiting room was filled with patients. As he approached the receptionist's desk, he noticed that the receptionist was a large unfriendly woman who looked like a Sumo wrestler... He gave her his name. In a very loud voice, the receptionist said, "YES, I HAVE YOUR NAME HERE; YOU WANT TO SEE THE DOCTOR ABOUT IMPOTENCE, RIGHT?" All the patients in the waiting room snapped their heads around to look at the very embarrassed man. He recovered quickly, and in an equally loud voice replied, 'NO, I'VE COME TO INQUIRE ABOUT A SEX CHANGE OPERATION,BUT I DON'T WANT THE SAME DOCTOR THAT DID YOURS.'

Maybe we could take hairy out & then it would fit the bill properly.....

Guys, lighten up, this is in FUNNY STUFF for a reason, not to be analised, but as a JOKE. See it as humour, cause thats all it is.

We all know how hard it can be to talk about (or aboot for our canadian friends) sex to kids, so here is an easy visual way to teach them!

See point 7

If our hierachy in the NSW Police Force and the Government continue the way they are going, we will be worse than the British scenario in a few years. . Subject: British vs Oz vs US police; Question: How do you tell the difference between a UK Police Officer, an Australian Police Officer and an American Police Officer? Answer: Pose the following question: THE SCENARIO You're walking down a deserted street with your wife and two small children. Suddenly, a dangerous looking man with a huge knife comes around the corner, locks eyes with you, screams obscenities, and raises the knife and charges. You are carrying a Glock .40, and you are an expert shot. You have mere seconds before he reaches you and your family. What do you do?' UK Police Officer's Answer: 1) Well, that's not enough information to answer the question! 2) Does the man look poor or oppressed? 3) Have I ever done anything to him that would inspire him to attack? 4) Could we run away? 5) Could I possibly swing the gun like a club and knock the knife out of his hand? 6) What does the law say about this situation? 7) Does the Glock have appropriate safety built into it? Why am I carrying a loaded gun anyway, and what kind of message does this send to society and to my children? 9) Is it possible he'd be happy with just killing me? 10) Does he definitely want to kill me, or would he be content just to wound me? 11) If I were to grab his knees and hold on, could my family get away while he was stabbing me? 12) Should I call 9-9-9? 13) Why is this street so deserted? 14) We need to raise taxes, have a paint-and-weed day and make this a happier, healthier street that would discourage such behaviour? 15) If I raise my gun and he turns and runs away; do I get blamed when he falls over running away, knocks his head and kills himself? 16) If I shoot him, and lose the court case, does he have the opportunity to sue me, cost me my job, my credibility and I will lose my family home? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Australian Officer's Answer: 1) BANG! BANG We in NSW have been trained to fire 2 shots. Me personnaly I like to be doublely sure MY Answer. BANG BANG BANG BANG ---------------------------------------------------------------------- American Officer's Answer: 1) BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! Click....(sounds of reloading) BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!!!!!!!!!!! Click.

CARE is one, ECP is another & the Brits have a model for it as well.

With regards to Asystole, we have a protocol & can call it if it is refractory asystole.