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Firstly, we need to be completely disassociated from any other profession. We need to be stand alone. Once we are a stand alone service, we need to be looking at what we can be doing as an adjunct to 'emergeny' work. Do we need to transport every patient or can we leave some at home. People heal better at home, there is less chance of infection & they want to be at home. Provided there is appropriate support structures in place, these can be better than transport aims.

I was discussing this with a trauma doc the other day, he was saying they are now looking at allowing systolic BP's as low as 60mmHg to be permissable..... Food for thought

I agree, there are facts in dispute, however, i also stand by my comments earlier in this post that FDNY EMS should suspend, pending the findings of a fully independent inquiry. This should be an expediant inquiry, it should be transparent & the results made freely available. The reason I call for this is for the people of NY to see that they have an EMS that is transparent & not trying to cover everything up, & secondly, it can show what really happenned & that the 2 persons involveds actual involvment. It may be that it shows that there needs to be better systems put in place, or that staff need better training, but if it is an open transparent inquiry, there can be no doubt as to the results. The suspension needs to stand & be ongoing so that people can see that FDNY EMS is treating this as a serious matter.

Currently each state has its own laws. In my state, they are currently changing the law as we were considered the same as a member of the general public. Now the charge will be to assault emergency worker. I am not sure of the fines, but they are nominal.

Dust, should we (that is a generic we) as a profession do whatever it takes to reduce violence againstour fellow paramedics. No one goes to work wanting to be hurt or injured. By whatever means. This headline & article has raised the issue of violence against paramedics. The use of a pool cue was, in my opinion, only there to get the attention of the reader. This type of approach is effective in Aussieland. It may not work in the US. Penalties have been increased & charges have been laid against people for many attacks, the Police here see an attack on us in the same light as an attack on them. The problem has been that some of these retards that are using the pool cues do not have enough brains to realise the implications of their actions. Lets scare them into some sort of responsibility. It works for aussies. Just because you dont agree dont make it wrong. Smoking was banned a number of years ago in licenced premises, so there is precedence. I dont see why you are so up tight about it dust.

I understand what you mean dust, however, what you need to understand is the cultural difference. If QAS did a media release stating that there was an increase in paramedic assaults with pool cues, the media pays little attention to it. They sensationalised it, then it makes high priority news because it threatens a cultural way of life, they therfore deem it newsworthy. Now it will be a point of discussion, the idiot factor will be reduced because we will now have many eyes watching & law enforcment will be easier.

It was a request. The main reason will be because of an serious increase in assaults caused by pool cues. Yes we have rules, but so do you guys & Dwane, I respect you man, but, most of the attacks here are from people other than the patient. Overall, we have a lot less rules than most other places As you said, most despise rules, but while this appears over the top, it is actually a way of gaurenteeing media publicity, thus ensuring people understand what is happening. It is nothing more than a scare tactic. The removal of glass drinking vessells from some bars was a direct response to a sudden & dramatic rise in 'glassings'. For those who do not know this term, the act of 'glassing' involves driving with force a glass into a persons face causing horrendous injuries. While they are caught & penalties are severe, they are not a deterrant. This was nothing more than a response & a law/rule to protect innocent people from a horrible act. I have attaches a photo to show the resultys & some are much worse

'Dead' man found alive in coffin after bee attack A POLISH beekeeper who suffered a heart attack after being stung was found alive in his coffin, The Times of London reported today. Josef Guzy, 76, collapsed unconscious after the insect attack earlier in the day and had been pronounced dead at the scene by a doctor, The Times of London reported. It was only when the undertaker reached into the coffin for the last time, in order to retrieve a necklace requested by Guzy's grieving would-be widow, that he detected a faint pulse. "Just before closing the coffin, the family asked us to remove a couple of precious things from the body," funeral director Darius Wysluchato said. "I happened to touch the artery in the neck and was totally shocked. I checked it again and shouted, 'There is a pulse.' My assistant checked as well. I leaned in close and I could tell that he was still breathing. My God, it was a miracle." The same ambulance that had been called to the pensioner's home near the city of Katowice in southern Poland and found no sign of life now raced to the undertakers to discover that their patient was still alive. The doctor who had issued the death certificate applied an electro cardiac monitor that recorded a pulse of 20 to 30 beats a minute, around a third of normal strength. Doctors in Katowice have described it as a case of suspended animation, the first they have known. Wysluchato added: "Thank God I did not close the coffin. If I had done that, it would have been a tragedy." Guzy was rushed into intensive care, and after weeks of recovery he is back home to tend his bees. "The undertaker saved my life. I am so grateful," he said. "The first thing I did when I got out of hospital was take him a pot of honey."

It looks bad because it is bad. FDNY EMS is more worried about their image it would appear, than the fact that this woman died. Lets put in in a different perspective, how would you feel if this was a member of your family? Then the regulations should be changed. There should be a facility for a person to be investigated in a 'reasonable amount of time' however, they should not be allowed to continue working. No we will not know if their inaction cause the death or not. For that they can be thankful because if it could be proved, then they should face criminal charges. There was enough information for them to receive an initial suspesion, that should continue. The time frame for the release of that information is reasonable. Here all landlines are recorded also, however, there is a ban on cell phones in the radio room. This prevents any disputes on this from occuring, maybe FDNY dispatch should do this also. These 2 may be only guilty of apathy, but if they are apathetic to their fellow humans, what is their work ethic like?

There was enough evidence to suspend them for a month. That should continue until the investigation is complete. To, as Dust said is a complete nonsense. Yes a woman is dead but look, in the story published, there was sufficient information to suspend them, all I have said is that should continue until the investigation is complete. Scott, you said Regardless of the cause of death, she died. This is a tragedy that, even with primary prehospital care on scene may not have been avoided, we will never know. In the dialogue you put in red for us to read as an alternative, it actually gives you some interesting info. Firstly we have confirmed ambulance times. There is no dispute about that. That was confirmed by . If he confirmed those times, why couldnt he confirm the conversation as listed & the time of the call, could it be because . Is the dispatcher assisting in a cover up is another question that should be looked at. I have seen investigations here & when there is any dispute, the recordings are pulled immediatley & played back, takes a few minutes. Not weeks as this has. Not a kangaroo court. The woman is dead. If NYFD EMS want to have some credibility, then these 2 should be suspended, without pay, for the duration of the investigation. The investigation should be conducted quickly & if cleared, they can return to work. If you read my posts, then that is what I have said all along.

-1 for failing to read the story & showing a total lack of understanding of the search function.

If the current terrorist threat was from the scotish, & no offence to any scots reading is intended, would we be out to ban the kilt. The supposition is that there may be a threat from a person disguised in a burka. To the best of my knowledge, there hasnt been one. Will France, or any other country ban a ski mask for the same reason? will make up be banned. Will we have to identify ourselves as male or female to enter a store to buy clothes, in the interest of national security? This is paranoia at its best. The only way to beat it is to ban all clothes so we all walk around in the nude without a back pack. Threat eliminated.

Regardless, a woman is dead because of their inaction. Her family suffers, they keep on earning their incomes as tho nothing has happenned. A message needs to be sent to all in EMS that this sort of behaviour will never be tolerated. Suspension until the case is proven or otherwise. That is the only satisfactory result. To say they will be in FDNY EMS Siberia is not enough.

They should not be back at work until the investigation is complete. Fair trial yes. But suspenstion until they complete the investigation & have a full & open account of what happened reported for all to see.

Does this mean you can do anything & still not lose yr job? This poor womans family need some vindication. It has been accepted they looked on & did nothing, so why were they not terminated? Or is this going to be a cover up?

Manda, The main question I asked was when were they emploeyed. This has a direct relationship to the provision of EAP & the other question relates to the cause of their addiction. If indeed it was/is PTSD, then regardless the employer has an obligation. If they had an addiction develop whil in the employ of the service, then they have a responsibility, even after they terminate them. If their addiction developed after they left they employ of the ambulance service, then the fact they were former paramedics has no bearing & any whacker can learn proceedures. EAP's have their place, I fully support their use, But at what point does an employer's responsibility to provide this service cease. As I said, at the ages of these 2 women, there is every possibility that they were employed 10 years + prior. There is nothing in the story to say when they were employedd. There seems to be a slant here to discredit the profession by dragging former employees through the mud. Some is deserved, most is not. Ambulance services, Public or Private, do not & can not control what former emplyees do, the media needs to be held to account for poor, irrelevant & innacurate reporting. Phil

A couple of things come to mind. While it is unfortunate they were medics or 'Paramedics', possibly in the generic sense of the word, are now drug addicts how long ago was it thet they were practicing as 'paramedics'? They obviously knew what they were after, but does this indicate that they became addicts while working in EMS? Nothing in what I read in the link would indicate that. With ages of 37 & 39, they could have been employed in that capacity 10 years ago. The only relevance is they knew the proceedures. This appears more to be a case that it is yet another way to drag an entire profession through the mud for the irrational actions of a few. I do not wish to make excuses for their actions, but if indeed they became addicts as a result of undiagnosed & untreated PTSD, then their former employer should assist in their rehabilitation. Chalk up another result to porr, inacurate & incomplete reporting.

Manslaughter charge follows ecstasy death at party AAP January 19, 2010 8:19AM A MAN has been charged with manslaughter following the drug overdose death of a 19-year-old woman at a party in NSW's south-west. Two men and two women, all young adults, overdosed on a substance described as liquid ecstasy at a party in Albury on January 13, police said. Several people were taken to hospital and on Saturday the 19-year-old woman's condition deteriorated and she died. Following her death, a 36-year-old Albury man was arrested yesterday and charged with her manslaughter. He has also been charged with two counts of recklessly causing grievous bodily harm in relation to two young men who attended the party. He has been refused bail to appear at Albury Local Court later today. Following on from the discussion in the Heroin Flyer thread, maybe we should se more of these types of charges, would that be a deterrant to try & curb drug distribution??

This topic has opened up an interestring discussion & shown some interesting feelings about this. What I stated was a 'devils advocate' style of comment. None was meant to offend & if it did, I apologise. My point here is I know a number of muslim women who wear a burka. They do not feel oppressed by wearing it. They believe that is what they should be doing in their worship & respect of their belief. What we need to remember is that we have extreemists in every religion. Some are more obvious than others, some are more destructive than others. Do all muslims believe that the west should be bombed, maimed & terrorised? No. Is this belief eminating through a small hard core group & being preached to people who dont know any better? Yep. It is easy to target those who choose to wear a burka, based on national security, based on identification issues. However, the vast majority of those commiting arocities are not women dressed in a burka, but men, dressed in male clothing. Charles Manson dressed like you & me, so did David Koresh, Timothy McVeigh I am sure wasnt wearing a burka. This is a fear that has been put into our heads, but where is the basis for it. Isnt it just as easy to disguise oneself, if you really wanted to, as Dustin Hoffman did in Tootsie, without the aid of a Burka? Surley I could do the same damage looking like a 500 pound whale in a moo moo as a 'woman' in a burka.

It was entertainment night at the old people's home. Claude the hypnotist exclaimed: 'I'm here to put you into a trance; I intend to hypnotize each and every member of the audience.' The excitement was almost electric as Claude withdrew a beautiful antique pocket watch from his coat. 'I want you each to keep your eye on this antique watch. It's a very special watch. It's been in my family for six generations'. He began to swing the watch gently back and forth while quietly chanting, "Watch the watch, watch the watch, and watch the watch..." The old people became mesmerized as the watch swayed back and forth, light gleaming off its polished surface. Hundreds of pairs of eyes followed the swaying watch, until, suddenly, it slipped from the hypnotist's finger and fell to the floor, shattering into a hundred pieces. 'SHIT!' said the Hypnotist. ........ It took three days to clean up the old people's home...

Happy Birthday Tezza. May the next year be better than the last & may you acieve your goals & dreams. Phil

Well & good to say that, but your country, like mine offers people the freedom to worship as they see fit.

Matty, does this mean that all women who wear Burka's are terrorists? Do all surfers smoke dope? Are all junkies street dwelling scum? Generalisations like this are more detrimental & show a lack of understanding. I know many muslims who deplore the reign terror has started, but attitudes such as this will never & can never help. for clarity, here is a quote as to why some women choose to wear a burka Is this so different from some fundamentalist organisations such as the Amish & their dress codes?

not bad, but i prefer this one

OK, lets look at it a different way then. Should any government be able to dictate how you dress? Should they for example, be able to stipulate the length of a skirt (minimum or maximum)? How tight jeans can be? or how low cut a top can or cant be? This story is on a Burka, but could so easily effect our day to day lives.