Just Plain Ruff

This is a really good read. Faith is what you make it. This was a discussion between a professor and a student at a liberal arts college. It is worth the time to read it. "Let me explain the problem science has with Jesus Christ." The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand. "You're a Christian, aren't you, son?" "Yes sir," the student says. "So you believe in God?" "Absolutely." "Is God good?" "Sure! God's good." "Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?" "Yes." "Are you good or evil?" "The Bible says I'm evil." The professor grins knowingly. "Aha! The Bible !" He considers for a moment. "Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?" "Yes sir, I wo uld." "So you're good...!" "I wouldn't say that." "But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't." The student does not answer, so the professor continues. "He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?" The student remains silent. "No, you can't, can you?" the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax. "Let's start again, young fella Is God good?" "Er...yes," the student says. "Is Satan good?" The student doesn't hesitate on this one. "No." "Then where does Satan come from?" The student: "From...God..." "That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?" "Yes, s ir." "Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?" "Yes." "So who created evil?" The professor continued, "If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil." Without allowing the student to answer, the professor continues: "Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?" The student: "Yes." "So who created them?" The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question. "Who created them?" There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized. "Tell me," he continues onto another student. "Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?" The student's voice is confident: "Yes, professor, I do." The old man stops pacing. "Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?" "No sir. I've never seen Him" "Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?" "No, sir, I have not." "Have you ever actually felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?" "No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't." "Yet you still believe in him?" "Yes." "According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?" "Nothing," the student replies. "I only have my faith." "Yes, faith," the professor repeats. < FONT face=Arial color=#c00000>"And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith." The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of his ow n. "Professor, is there such thing as heat?" "Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat." "And is there such a thing as cold?" "Yes, son, there's cold too." "No sir, there isn't." The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. "You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word w e use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it." Silence acr oss the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer. "What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?" "Yes," the professor replies without hesitation. "What is night if it isn't darkness?" "You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word. In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?" The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him and says, "This is going to be a good semester... So what point are you making, young man?" "Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed." The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. "Flawed? Can you explain how?" "You are working on the premise of duality," the student explains. "You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, somethin g we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never been seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it." "Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?" "I f you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do" "Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?" The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed. "Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?" The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided. "To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean." The student looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?" The class breaks out into laughter. "Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the profess or's brain, touched or smelled the professor's brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir. So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?" Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable. Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers "I guess you'll have to take them on faith." "Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life," the student continues. "Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?" Now uncert ain, the professor responds, "Of course, there is. We see it everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil." To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light." The professor sat down.

VS I see your point but It's not your job to tell us what faith to believe in. It is not your place to tell me how to worship. You have your beliefs and others have theirs so let's leave it at that. What get's me is how so many people, on this site and elsewhere can try to dictate or force their beliefs down others throats. I don't try to force my beliefs on others, I give them my viewpoints and then I give them the opportunity to make their own choice. I have no tolerance for people who try to force their beliefs. VS, take no offense to what I have just said but the conversation and your posts have struck a chord and I know that we have known each other long enough to disagree and be good pals afterward. I think if we want to continue this discussion let's take it to PM or IM's and not clog up the thread.

Over the last 15 years in the biz, I've hotlined over 75 parents. Do I regret any of them, nope. Would I hotline them again? Yep. To me it's all about the children. If I'm suspicious I'll hotline it. If I'm borderline I'll discuss it with a trusted colleague and then more than likely I'll hotline it. Am I afraid of repercussions? Sure but I would not be doing my job if I did not address my concerns. Many of the calls came to nothing, no abuse or neglect found but I did my job. Did some of the calls result in abuse or neglect being found, yes and the child was I hope saved from more abuse and to me that is what makes my job worthwhile. We are mandated by the state to report any suspicions of abuse be it emotional, physical or sexual and morally we are also mandated to report. Consider the child you do not hotline because you doubt your suspicions and something terrible happens. Can you live with that?

law of cardiac arrests - all seizures called in at 330am will be a cardiac arrest without fail.

nanny nanny boo boo, stick your head in doo doo. My dad can beat up your dad My football coach can eat your coach Whaaaa whaaa I'm better than you. Did I make your point Megan? Just remember that when you perpetuate a stereotype it makes you no better than the stereotype yourself. You might want to the consider that when you state stereotypes in your posts. This is not only directed at Megan but directed at anyone on the forums who use stereotypes in trying to make their points.

Some people are not cut out to be preceptors but they are forced to be preceptors none the less. I for one when I first started out on a small ambulance service, we had students. I was part of the primary crew, and I was so new as a medic that I was just getting my bearings. I was then told that we were gonna have students ride along. most were emt students but we had a smattering of medic students also. I was not prepared to precept and I made that clear to the boss yet I was still precepting. Fast forward 5 years at AMR and I had a student every shift for more than a year. No down time, no time in between to regroup. Some were good, some were bad, some were very very good and others I kicked off the truck. I got burned out on students and the last couple students it showed in my attitude. Fast forward another 5 years and the service I worked for I had students about every 5th shift which was perfect. I am all for students but some services just wear out their preceptors. When you have 40 students in a paramedic class and all of those students are trying to get ride time in your service and you only have 2 crews on per shift, it get's to the point where your preceptors are getting burned out. My advice is to go back and ride with those who invited you back. Keep away from the ones who made it clear they didn't want you and you will do fine.

all speak wisdom so far. Do not take anatomy 1 and 2 together, you will blow your brains out, I tried it, it didn't work for me. But I'm not saying you can't do it. As for the speech class, wait till medic school is over. Then take it. I think you are set for physiology what with a bio degree and all. Good luck I know you will make it.

yes the 31st is the deadline

ok after discussing this little set back with my wife and her calmness prevails as well as a coment from Wendy the contest is back on. The people who bitched and complained are hereby banned from the contest and if they send an entry it will not be considered. For the rest of you, please continue to do the contest and we'll see where it goes.

sorry to everyone who had done some work on the project. I try to do something good and beneficial to the entire city yet there were 3-4 people who had nothing but negative things to say. "it's too much like work" it's too much work for too little prize so you can thank those who complained. It still is a good learning experience if you think you will ever be tasked by your service to spec out an ambulance.

Well in retrospect, the winner is Brentoli for his wonderful Sly in pink picture. Look for the full prizes(all of em) in the mail shortly.

good lord, first prize is worth over a hundred dollars. Good lord what in the H E double hockey sticks do you guys want. The last contest I put out the cost of the prizes were 1st prize worth nearly 50 bucks (a EKG and Cardiac A&P book) 2nd prize nearly 35 bucks worth 3rd prize - about 22 bucks that's not chicken feed. What do you want Brit a prize worth 500 or a thousand. I've been criticised over this contest in chat, several had said that it was too much like work so they weren't gonna participate and when I told them they didn't need to participate the negative attitude was palpable. So for the complainers and the bitchers and general naysayers you got your wish, and you know who you are, the contest is over and cancelled. There will be no further contests in the future either. I even spent about 12 bucks for each prize in shipping so I figure the total amount of money I've spent on prizes for the two contests that I have held is well over 200 dollars. The total prizes that were to be awarded for this contest was well in excess of 500 bucks divided out into 3 to 5 winners. But that's not gonna happen today. I have books, videos and autographed items that were being held for future contests but not anymore. They are now going to my local EMS school and maybe they will be more appreciative of these items than some of you here. So future contests by me are hereby cancelled. Am I pissed, yeah, should I be, yeah because three or four people had to bitch and moan about the contest and how much work it was going to be. You know what, I'm not going to have an easy contest so the whiners here can get easy winning. But alas, I don't really care any more. I try to do something really nice for the community and 3 or 4 of you screwed it up for the entire site.

there will still be prizes for 1, 2 and 3rd place but just not the real big ones. I'll save that for a contest that people wanted to enter. Maybe this ones too hard.

There is a new rule to the contest. If there are fewer than three entries then the judges can make the decision to alter the prize distribution and value of the prizes.

did anyone read the dog attack article. Again the gritchin and moaning about the cops not shooting the dog in the shoulder or leg. What a whiner. If the dog goes after them put em down no questions asked. But she's gonna file a complaint anyway. Not concerned about her kids after a pit bull attack but she's sure concerned about her dog.

vs, that was really good. A good way to put it. You feeling ok?

Care to back up that statement with facts and figures. If not then your statement is not valid.

Spenac, I'm curious. where in the bible does it say no blood transfusions? I have read the bible fully and I cannot recall that it says that at all. Let's not get into a spiritual debate but can you pm me some specific scripture that says no transfusions or what not. let me know.

It is not our place to judge what the religious beliefs of patients are. Nor is it our place to judge what the religious beliefs of those who post here are. I've taken care of many Jehovah's Witnesses in my career, many needing blood many not. I've never had any of the Jehovah's witnesses refuse treatment except for blood and it's byproducts such as platelets and such. We are not here to judge their decision, it's no different than someone refusing to go to the ER in your ambulance when you really know they need to go but they refuse. It's no different when they refuse to stay inthe hospital for an MI and they go home and die. It's a refusal of care and as such, they have the right to refuse any and all forms of medical treatment that is offered to them. They can refuse one part or the entire part. I know how hard it is to watch a JW(jehovah's witness but it's too long to type) succumb to blood loss and refusal to get blood but it's just as hard to watch a person go home after an MI. I had a patient, RLDS member who was having stroke like symptoms. She was lucid one minute and stroke like the next. While she was lucid she would refuse care until an elder got to her house but when she went out implied consent applied. We put her on the stretcher and she became lucid. She refused again. She went out again and we took her to the ambulance. She became lucid again and she demanded to get off the cot and go back inher house. She signed the refusal and we after much discussion left. I told her and her family that this was the precurser of a major stroke and she WAS going to get worse. They said they understood but they still would not let us take her. We left, caught another call and while transporting the patient another ambulance responded to her house and she had indeed had a major stroke and it ended up killing her. I chatted with the neurologist about her case to find out if I did anything wrong or could have done something different and he told me that she would have survived had she have consented to go to the ER when we were there. Her stroke was not hemmorhagic but was caused by a clot. I knew what i did was right but it still haunts me sometimes that I didn't do enough. Did I let it get me down or upset because she refused care? Not really I was upset I couldn't persuade her or her family but religious beliefs run very very strong in some people and no matter what you say to them you cannot change their faith or their minds.

had a 23 year old female. she had fulminate liver failure. She was as orange as well an orange. She asked me if I was going to heaven and I said yes. I asked her why she asked me and she told me she was going to heaven. I said how she knew that. She told me that the person at the end of the bench seat told her. I asked her who she was talking about and she said it was Jesus sitting there. She died 3 days later. When I found out I had a crying moment.

spenac, I know the d-stick thing. I may have misunderstood you but I'm talking about doing additional d-sticks just for the heck of it to get them to wake up from faking.

the argument of basic before medic is about as pointless as emt then medic then rn then doctor. It doesn't work that way either.

ok let me ask this question. You can answer it honestly and say you did it or you can say you saw this happen somewhere or whatever. What techniques or noxious stimuli have you used to wake a faker? I have performed the pencil/pen on the nail bed sternal rub Arm drop and blunt objects being pressed on the heel of the foot I've heard of needles being poked on the feet and fingers D-stick for the hell of it eye gouging (finger in the space between the eye and the top of the orbit) pectoral pinch ammonia and others that I cannot think of right now. What have others here seen or done?

ok we have a date Now lets' get a task force together of respected members of the EMS community and get this done. Who wants to be in charge?

Timmy what's your take on all this?