HERBIE1

Agreed, but I was thinking about distance running in general. Compared to a 15 minute mile, no question, a shuttle run is far more demanding.

Thanks. It's not often that I have the time(transport times are short) or need to get definitive info like this but it's good to know it's available when necessary.

Experience is number one for a preceptor, IMHO. Someone who is well respected by their peers, has a good educational background, a good skill set, patience, and training as a teacher would be a plus, but not necessary. Being able to select someone based on a consensus of fellow providers would be a good thing, if possible. Being able to listen is also vital. I've told every one of my students that I can also learn from them- new attitudes, a new way of looking at a problem, an alternate solution, etc. They usually look at me strangely, but I always tell them you are never too "old" or too "experienced" to learn. I also preface that comment by saying that there will also be times they need to listen and not immediately question- there will be time later for that. The worst preceptors are the ones who let their personal issues cloud their teaching. Displaying a poor attitude or personal biases, exhibiting poor patient care, improper shortcuts, etc. We've all seen them, and wonder who let them become a teacher of new providers.

No offense to any Aussies here, but I'm thinking that the criminals down under aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer if all it takes is a picture to scare them off. LOL

Thanks. Well, I personally blame you for me never winning a big lottery payout. Then again, I also think I need to play it to win...

Depends on your body type, I'm thinking. Long and lanky generally makes for a good distance runner. You don't see too many short, fireplug types running marathons. A shuttle run is also about endurance but it takes coordination and agility. Different stresses on different body parts. Is this run a part of your job requirement?

We are all surrounded by the wonders of technology every day at work. Monitors, synthetically designed drugs, equipment, telemetry radios, even our apparatus are marvels of innovation. Having said that... Has anyone ever used their PDA or web enabled cellphone during a call-(besides for contacting medical control)? Recently, we had an OD, and the person took an obscure medication- one that was new enough that I knew it was not in any reference material we had on board. I honestly forget what the drug was, but neither my partner or I had ever heard of it. We both thought it may be a new diabetic medication but we were wrong. I connected to the net via my phone, googled the name, and in a matter of moments, found out that is was some type of psych drug. Treatment was only supportive, and the call went without incident. Later, we both laughed and were amazed at how cell phone technology could become such a valuable asset. Cell phones didn't even exist when we started our careers and now we were using them to help treat a patient. Amazing...

I have no doubt someone can be qualified on paper to be an EMT, regardless of age. The problem is, maturity is a huge issue, and I question that someone at 17 is capable of handing the awesome responsibilities of medical care. Training, skills stations, and moulaged victims are also NOT the same thing as the real deal. I think that at some point in the future, more stringent universal guidelines on age are needed to protect providers as well the the public. I have seen doctors- especially from India where they can finish medical school much faster than here- who seem woefully unprepared to deal with the responsibilities they have and decisions they must make. Yes, there are always exceptions to rules, but I think a certain amount of life experiences(maturity) are necessary in order to be able to handle what may be asked of you every day. While most of the things we deal with are routine, what about those horrible calls? Mutilated children in a car wreck? Abused and neglected kids? Homicides? Difficult patients and family members? Personally, I vividly recall when I was first "turned loose" and functioned as a brand new EMTB, ready to provide patient care. I was a college graduate, 23 years old, and had already been living on my own. I had great training- didactic and clinical, but this was going to be the real deal. I still felt overwhelmed for what I had to do, but having a good preceptor was critical in gaining confidence in my abilities. I simply cannot imagine having to face such a thing at age 17 or 18. At that age, most people- myself included- have no idea what they don't know. You feel invincible, you have all the answers and can handle anything, but realistically, I didn't even know what the real questions were yet. Was I mature at 17 or 18- yep. Worked, got nearly straight A's in school, but I was still a teenager, with all the trials and tribulations that entails. Despite all this- I wish you luck in your new career. You may be the exception, but either way, I hope you have a mentor in the business and/or a trusted adult to help you through those inevitable difficult times- you will need them

I agree that an empty cot should be used until a person understands the basics on it's operation, but as soon as possible the point should be made that lifting- especially with the 2 man stretchers- is a HUGE part of the job. Once someone is familiar with it's operation, they should be made aware of how much weight they will be responsible for lifting. If they cannot do it in a controlled environment, on a level surface, with a static load, then a real lift, with a real, wiggling patient would be impossible for them. For the first 20+ years of my career I used a 2 man cot and only in the last few years did I get a one and half man bed. I could have used this thing a LONG time ago- it's great. I know this will upset the ladies, but I HATED working with women with that 2 man stretcher, especially since back then, too often we had no lifting help. Women and men lift differently, women simply do not have the same upper body strength. Yes, there are exceptions to that rule, but countless times, women I worked with were able to get the cot from off the ground, up to near the level of the rear of the ambo(essentially a dead lift), but that last movement- bringing it to the ambo floor and into the rig was tough for them. I was usually left to wrestle it in essentially on my own. That was a big reason my back is in the shape it's in today.

But it's so fun!!!

Good point. Maybe they use it as a method to weed people out? Stupid- maybe, but I also never had a gradual increase in the weight of the cot. I think it's a valid issue- the job is very physically demanding and that certainly needs to be addressed early on- for the sake of the rest of the class and the student. IMHO, the jump between 150lbs to 220 pounds isn't huge. If a person has trouble lifting 150 pounds, then lifting anyone with real weight is going to be a problem. Think about it- a stretcher can easily weigh 40, 50, 60 lbs or more. Unless you limit your patients to pediatrics, how many of patients only weigh 90-110 pounds? Now add a backboard, maybe an O2 tank, a monitor, and I don't think 150 pounds is an accurate example of the physical demands of the job.

I would bet a large sum of cash that plane was full of Democratic bigshots. This is the equivalent of staying in the Lincoln Bedroom- a perk for being a party loyalist. Donors, lobbyists, political cronies- who knows. I simply refuse to believe that plane was empty. Stupid- damn right. It costs a fortune for that plane just to spool up it's engines and to fly over NYC, with a fighter escort? Incredibly stupid.

Congrats! I echo the sentiment of continuing your education- even if it's it's just gen ed classes until you find something that interests you. It's ALWAYS good to have something to fall back on- just in case. Look at the threads on injuries and see how quickly things can change. There are plenty of ways to use nearly any college degree in EMS- teaching, training, research, finances- even politics. It helps to set you up for hopefully a long and fruitful career. It's also easy to become wrapped up in the business, and not see other possibilities for your future. Keep up the good work!

Never used the disposable type- always the big, clunky metal ones that could be used as weapons. I would LOVE to be able to try the fiber optic variety- I've heard rave reviews about them.

Obviously less would be better, but... I don't see a huge problem with the didactic portion, but clearly you need plenty of proctors to help with skills training, and answering questions. I would check to see how many adjuncts or aides the plan on using. You should probably be fine. Good luck.

I'm one of the ones who has never seen a chiropractor, despite having 2 friends- a husband and wife team- who run a very successful business. Problem is, they are also over the top in their claims that their discipline can help damn near anything that ails you. Does it work- I'm sure it does, but I also think it depends heavily on what type of problems you have: Are they musculoskeletal or due to a disc problem with nerve impingement? I'm pretty flexible, do strength training, I'm aware of my posture and good lifting mechanics, but my original injury was due to a freak thing, not poor lifting technique. A friend who was one of the best medics I ever met ruptured 2 cervical discs when carrying an 80 lb little old lady in a stairchair through a doorway. She was confused, became upset and grabbed the door jamb as they were passing it, torquing his neck. His mechanism of injury was similar to mine, only it caused far more damage. To make a long story short, he's had multiple surgeries, fusions, been on a morphine pump, became addicted to and recovered from painkillers, and couldn't even lift his newborn baby for several months. He's now out of the business and is a successful PA, but is still in constant pain. It broke his heart to give up prehospital medicine- he was born to do this job. When I originally injured myself, I went through a ton of rehab. I could not tolerate the electrical stimulation- but the flexibility exercises, ultrasound, work hardening, strength training, etc was fine. In the end, after being able to do everything they asked and more, I was still in pain. They told me that essentially that was all they could do for me, and it would be a matter of how much discomfort I would be able to endure before I had the surgical 'fix'. That was 10 years ago and I'm still going. You also don't realize how much discomfort you get used to until you have that rare day when things feel good. Try anything and see if it works- whether it be accupuncture, herbal remedies, napropaths or witch doctors. I don't wish back problems on anyone, but if you are in this business long enough, it's amost a certainty you will deal with them.

I hate to say it but I would seriously consider another line of work. If you are still a student and already have back issues, your career will be shortened considerably unless you can find a way to teach or be a supervisor- anything other that street work. As was mentioned, nearly everyone in prehospital care has back issues- although with the new equipment it is certainly better than it was. Back injuries never truly go away and mine was not from a heavy patient, it was an awkward lift and I ruptured L5,S1- the most common place for us. It's better now and the next step is surgery, so I will put that off until I am nearly crippled. Keep your core strong-lots of abdominal work, keep flexible, and keep your weight down. Nearly every morning I wake up with pain but most days it goes away after awhile. Problem is, I also can't be in any one position for too long- standing, sitting, or lying down- or I stiffen up and get very sore. It's the nature of the business and anyone who has done this for any length of time has similar issues. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I hope you understand what a physically demanding job prehospital work is- and if you are STARTING with a bad back, that is not a good sign. I don't know how old you are, if you have a family, but think about quality of life later on. Something like this affects everything you do.

Think liability here. If that patient died because the officer essentially refused to send help, that is WRONG and subjects the department and municipality to a lawsuit. There is also plenty of legal precedent that proves this. A dispatcher's job is to take calls, screen them, assess what type of help is needed and send it, and our job is to respond. This is not a difficult concept and a veteran officer would be fully aware of what he was supposed to do. WTF was this guy thinking? I've disptached and yes, people can be incredibly rude- and stupid. Welcome to the world of public service. If this guy is a 20 year veteran he SHOULD already know this and should not be a revelation. There is no excuse for what he did.

I didn't think I would need to spell this out, but I will. I would NEVER put a student in harm's way. I've had a student or 2 who seemed to prefer to hit on nurses in ER's vs pay attention to writing a report, cleaning, or restocking. I've had a student or 2 who simply disappeared with no explanation. I've actually instructed my partner to pull down the street from an ER and then walk back to see how long it took the student to realize what had happened. In each case, there was never a second offense. I've had dozens of students over the years and my system works for me. I've worked with many of them as partners and nearly every one has turned out to be fine medics. If all hell breaks loose and we need to get back into service ASAP, if I need to spend time finding my student, I will NOT be happy. The student is there to learn and if they aren't paying attention or are not around, then they are NOT learning. You never know when a teaching moment happens and it can't happen if you need a GPS locator on your student. When I was a student I kept my eyes open, my mouth shut, and stuck to my preceptor like glue. That was my job. It's not a difficult concept. It seems that many students these days think they have all the answers right out of school. I tell every one of them I am always willing to listen to alternate possibilities- when appropriate- you can learn something from anyone. I also say that there are times that you simply need to listen and we'll talk about it later.

We have a bureau devoted to reviewing run reports for completeness, compliance to medical rules and regulations, as well as departmental rules. We also have a supervisor who pulls random reports for the same reasons. They both work hand in hand with medical control.

All good advice. My opinion-concurrently or after taking the EMS classes- take college courses and obtain a fall back degree/occupation. Accounting, computers, teaching - whatever their interest lies. As was mentioned, this business is rough on the body- and mind- and illness and injuries are a real problem and can cut short your career. It's good to have a back up plan- something to have in your back pocket. Get a teaching certification so you can teach EMS or anything else, for that matter. Don't get tunnel vision and keep as many options open as possible. The more tools you have at your disposal- especially in this economy- the better off you will be. Good luck to them.

Wendy, part of my wife's job is recruitment and advising for a university. A huge issue she has is with parents of kids who come from the ghetto area schools. Many times, the parents want to know what "she" and the university are going to do for the kids. Just like our HIPAA laws, the university cannot discuss a student's records and grades with the parents unless the student gives the OK. In other words, the students are supposed to be responsible for themselves. The expectation of these parents is that these students should not just be advised, but be taken care of in every way imaginable. It's a different mentality. When the kids fail, it's somehow the university's fault that the kids do not do well. She sees kids who were "top" in their class, but have 14 ACT's (out of a possible 35), so that tells you how well the rest of the class did. Many times all these kids had to do was show up for class- a huge accomplishment in many of these schools- and they would be given an A. No, not every kid from these areas are like this, but it's the rule vs the exception. The kids who ARE doing well from these schools and did get a decent education are succeeding usually because of some internal drive and motivation. For whatever reason, they don't buy into the thug/ghetto mentality, and do well despite all the negative influences. "Acting white", or selling out IS a huge problem. Fact is, in ANY school, the athletes receive the bulk of the attention and adoration from fellow students- it's always been that way, but it is changing. As a result, kids always form their cliques- nerds, stoners, geeks, athletes, goths, etc. The "smart kids" still did their own thing, because of parental or other positive influences and an internal motivation. These days, however, it's almost becoming "cool" to be a geek or a nerd. In the ghetto schools, this marginalization is taken to a whole new level. Because of the thug mentality and culture, in the ghetto schools, the trouble makers and athletes get all the attention and respect. To them, it's cool to be antisocial, antisocietal, and antieducation. For whatever reason, the negative influences are the ones they react to and follow. They simply see no value in education. They look around and see generations of friends and family who never finished high school, never had a job, but have a roof over their heads, clothes on their backs, an IPOD, designer shoes, food in their stomach, FREE health care, and are able to raise a few kids- even without a 2 parent household. Is it a "comfortable" life- no, but they also don't need to worry about anything- their needs are taken care of, and apparently that is good enough for them. And the biggie- IF you are given all these things and they require NO effort on your part, where is the incentive to WORK for anything better? To me, that is the single biggest issue. It's hard to tell a kid they should work their arses off, endure the scorn of their peers and family, just so they can essentially get the same things as everyone else who didn't work for it. Personal opinion- and I've been told I am a heartless SOB because of it: As bleak of an existence as ghetto life may seem to be, it can't be that bad or why wouldn't more people take advantage of the many opportunities available EXCLUSIVELY to them to change their destiny? I think in most cases, "poverty" in this country is a misnomer. If someone has a roof over their heads, food in their bellies, kids running around, clothes on their back, a FREE education, FREE medical care, AND the kicker- they never have to lift a finger for it, how "poor" is that? Think 3rd world countries, living in a mud hut with no sanitation, no school, and no work means no food. THAT is poverty.

Don't know the history of this dispatcher. Assuming he was a sworn officer and not a civilian, he might not be happy about being there. Sometimes, an officer may be assigned to dispatch when he is unable to function on the street- medical or injury issues(light duty). Another BIG possibility- he was assigned there for punitive reasons. Bottom line- no excuses, no rationale, no alibis- he should be fired. Thankfully the patient is OK, but this is a slam dunk lawsuit that will cost that city millions, and rightfully so. I'm not a big fan of lawyers, but in this case a lawsuit is warranted. I agree with the comment that if someone in public safety is offended by a 4 letter word, they are in the wrong business. I've been cussed out so many times, I almost answer to some of those names... LOL

Finally, an actual discussion on issues. Thank you. I have never taken the national registry so I'll have to go by what I have heard and what I have been told. Truth be told, in this area, the NREMT is not a high priority for people- it's not required for any jobs around here, it does not help you with promotions, it does not put any more money in your paycheck. From what I have been told, it is a very challenging exam and a true test of your knowledge. Is it a good idea? ANY education is a good thing and to anyone who takes it- more power to them. I'm also all for making learning a life long endeavor- always have been. I went back and got a masters degree at age 43 for my own edification. To your point- yes, not everyone "tests well". Some people are visual learners, some do better with written, some do better with conceptual or abstract things, etc. A good teacher knows this and adapts their teaching technique until students who aren't grasping the material finally catch on. Learning disabilities, poor study habits, personal issues, distractions, phobias, anxiety- there are a myriad of reasons why people don't do well on tests. You must have a yardstick to measure how well someone understands the material presented, and in a perfect world, everyone would be tested based on their "preferred" method of learning. Obviously that is not practical. In the end, whether you succeed or fail, and whether you are top of the class or just barely make it through, everyone performs differently, based on their innate abilities and the effort they put forth. Not everyone will be a straight A student, and it has nothing to do with race. The problem I have with your argument is that in this case the material is a known quantity. It is DOT curriculum based, and everyone has access to the material. Either you master the material or you do not. In order to sit for the NREMT, a student must have at least a basic mastery of the material in order to pass the EMT or paramedic program. To pass the NREMT, you simply demonstrate a higher level of proficiency and grasp of the material but it is NOT necessary to function in your role. WHen I finished my paramedic program-in the top 3-and took and aced the state exam, I was told that if I sat for the national registry, to be prepared to do significantly poorer on it. The stats showed that in our state, that was a fact- it was a rigorous test. A promotional exam is also a known quantity. Everyone has the same access to the information. These firefighters already had the job, they simply needed to learn how to be an officer. Maybe none of them had the skills needed to be officers? White people fail the registry for the same reasons black people fail. Either they were not prepared, or they simply are not capable of passing a more rigorous test of their knowledge. Sounds to me you have a personal gripe about this exam, but that's a separate issue. I went to college on my own dime(undergrad and graduate school), took out loans, and it took me 10 years to pay them off. I was also the first in my family to go to college. They "supported" me by realizing that education was the key to getting ahead, although certainly NOT a guarantee of success. Is that an attitude reserved only for white people? I received a couple hundred dollars a year in "aid"- not even enough to cover books for one semester. I was denied more aid because my dad made "too much money"-I was told that money was reserved for "needy" students and minorities. We were middle class, had a mortgage, a car payment, and lived an average life, took 1 big family vacation to Disney World, but were by no means wealthy. There was simply no way my parents could afford to pay my way through school. I appreciated my education because I WAS PAYING FOR IT and I knew that unless I finished that education to get a decent job, paying back that loan would take me forever. Again, the reasons for NOT doing well in school are many, but racism or bias is bull. To lessen the financial impact of the loans in college, I took a job as an RA in the dorms. In return for a stipend and room and board, I was responsible for about 100 students. Among those students were athletes- and 99% of them were black. The majority of my discipline problems were within this group. They all had full scholarships-tuition, books, fees, room and board, spending money, and were taking the most basic of classes- mostly taught by their coaches. They spent days practicing, and nights partying, interrupted by an occasional class. Obviously most athletes never make it to the pros, and in 4 years, I knew 1 football player who made it that far and he was out of the pros in 2 years. Whenever they broke university rules and policies, they told me that it didn't matter what they did in school, that despite the odds, they were all "going pro". Most dropped out of school after injuries, were thrown out because they couldn't keep their grades up, or ran into trouble with the law. Point is, their educational issues had NOTHING to do with racism, bias, or even money. It was their attitude towards education. It was not a priority for them and they saw no value in it. Their entire lives to this point, they had been given a pass educationally because they excelled in some athletic feat. Nobody had the courage to tell them that the odds against them becoming a professional athlete were astronomical and that they had better have an education as a back up. A good number of them were functionally illiterate, despite having a high school diploma. I worked with a couple black RA's who had similar poor backgrounds but wanted a better life and would try to talk to them and explain things to them. They knew education was their ticket out of a dead end life and worked their butts off to succeed. They came away frustrated- these athletes would hear none of that. The difference- they VALUED their education and knew a good opportunity when they saw one. Most of these athletes returned to their poor areas, no better off than people who never graduated high school, squandering a golden opportunity that most people never get- a FREE education. Years later at work, I actually ran into a former athlete who recognized me as his RA, and he was hanging out on a street corner, gang banging and selling dope. He actually seemed a bit embarassed by what he had become. Bottom line- don't blame the test, racism, or anything else for someone who fails to hold up their end of the bargain. Nearly everyone has significant barriers in their life that make achieving success a difficult road. By claiming racism at every turn, you do a disservice to every hard working minority who DID overcome obstacles to get ahead in life. That cheapens the efforts and achievements of every person who did succeed, despite the odds against them. Lots of people are "Victims" of something, crochity. The choice is whether or not to be defined by that term.

OK, let's play your game, crochity. Slavery and racism are the causes of the problems in the black community. To address that, we have had affirmative action, set asides, and quotas since the 60's. Since then, it is AGAINST the law to discriminate based on race, ethnicity, or gender. Does it still happen- yep. Despite all that, we still have biases based on family name, political clout, nepotism, wealth, and gawd knows what other reasons, but we have NO real legal recourse to address those things. Should we pass laws, establish government agencies, push for quotas, set asides, and watchdog groups that give average, everyday Joe's an extra hand? We are fallible humans who don't always play fair. Get over it. So- after all these legal and social protections, what is the result? To me, other than making slavery and discrimination illegal, in many ways, things have only gotten worse. Black males have the highest incarceration rates of any group in this country. Anywhere from 2/3's to 3/4 of all kids born in the black community are born to single mothers who are heads of their household. Literacy rates, graduation rates, poverty have only gotten worse. Drugs, violence, unemployment- all skyrocketing in recent generations. Racism? How about NOT taking advantage of the opportunities when they are presented? Does someone force a kid to NOT stay in school and get an education? By whom? Are they FORCED to have a baby at 15 and possibly be dependent on society for their entire lives? By whom? So what is the answer? Revenge? These ideas to address past wrongs have completely failed, or I suggest they are not even addressing the problem or actually creating the opposite of their designed effect. if you are only looking for paybacks, as you seem to be indicating by your posts, then good luck. There are plenty of people with guilty consciences and an entire political party to help you out. Based on the worsening problems in this community, paybacks won't change a damn thing, but maybe that's all you are looking for- not real solutions. To think that invalidating a test because you don't like the results is pure BS. The tested material is a known quantity- it's not a secret. Everyone who takes that test knows what they will be held responsible for. EVERYONE. Either you know the material or you do not. Fireground tactics are NOT something that can be racially skewed. I'm thinking that the blacks who took this test assumed that as in most instances, they would be given special dispensation simply because of their skin color and they simply didn't prepare adequately. When the scores were posted and there was NOT a special scoring procedure(banding, race norming, quotas, set asides, etc) they were judged soley on their performance and they did not measure up. In a race neutral test, the only other alternative is that blacks are not capable of doing as well as whites- you can't be suggesting that, can you? Too bad- take the test again, only this time actually crack the books and study for it LIKE EVERYONE ELSE. In the end, it seems you are all about revenge for something you personally have never experienced, from people who are not responsible for doing it. Good luck with that it- seems to be working out "well" so far.