46Young

Hey look, it's possible for well organized agencies to establish a foothold in fire/EMS territory. http://www.northshorelij.com/NSLIJ/Nassau+911+-+Rockville+Centre+Partnership The NSLIJ CEMS runs a 24/7 (2 12's) paramedic unit in Rockville Centre, which is served by the local VFD and the Nassau County PD EMS division as a backup. Pretty slick - the CEMS bills, and is guaranteed a certain, profitable dollar amount for running and staffing that bus. Any revenue in addition goes to the town, any revenue shortfall for the CEMS is paid by Rockville Centre. In this case, the VFD wasn't providing adequate coverage, and this hospital based EMS system now operates there. This could easily become the trend of the future in areas covered by VFD's if you plan well. Perhaps some of you out there can take this example, go to your agencies, and maybe contact the CEMS for advice on how to pursue this type of business in their area. This hospital previously had nine 911 spots in the FDNY EMS division, now it's maybe 13 or 14 if you count the St. John's Hospital closing (uncompensated cases) and on Staten Island.

FDNY EMS issues PPE to their EMT's and medics. Too bad that many other private agencies go that far. You're lucky. Most places maybe provide polos or pants, but not both, forget about boots, and you need to actually purchase a coat from them if you don't want to freeze in the winter. Same goes for buing scopes, shears, penlights, even maps at some places. I used to work here, and I think these uniforms look sharp and professional. http://www.northshorelij.com/NSLIJ/Videos+CEMS I like the large EMT or Paramedic patch on the shoulder. With some agencies you don't know what level they're at unless you ask, as there are no identifiers regarding cert level on their uniform. Also, we were sent to the tailor, the same one that does the NYPD, for our fittings. The materials were the same as the NYPD's. I left a couple of years ago, I assume that it's still the same.

Seriously. You may have to wait for some spots to open up, but you should be way more qualified than anyone else applying for a supervisor's position.

Here's the top of the food chain where I used to work: http://www.northshorelij.com/NSLIJ/EMS+Staff I know them personally, and they all do a great job at running a fine dept. What I want you to notice is the lack of educational credentials after their titles. The top of the food chain, the director, started as a paramedic/dispatcher, and has no additional college education listed since he began with the dept 14 years ago. http://www.northshorelij.com/NSLIJ/Alan+Schwalberg How easy do you think it would be for someone with only a bachelor's to get in when vacancies arise?

So it's all done with smoke and mirrors and that EMS responsibilities are assumed only to increase budgets and to procure more suppression apparatus? You've worked for my dept and/or neighboring jurisdictions? Of course you haven't. But just keep making broad generalizations. Racial prejudice is also based on generalizations and assumptions against a certain population, and we know that those reputations are untruthful in large part. As far as my "idealistic" solution, I don't see any real change happening otherwise, only by like minded individuals, degreed, which is necessary to earn positions of influence (admin, gov't agencies). As it stands, EMS, at least in the states, is fragmented and transient. As such, no significant organization and change will be possible until some educated trend setters go to work where it actually counts, in admin and gov't. Won't happen without four year degrees and higher. As it stands, it's all to easy for a well organized profession, fire suppression, to take over the EMS profession largely unopposed. My reference to education wasn't at the field ops level, but rather at the admin level, which is what the four year degree does. It's also puzzling why any progressions past an EMS AAS is admin related, rather than increased medical knowledge, since we're told that a paramedic's education is inadequate for IFT, critical care txps and flight by some on these forums. Anyway, back in my single role hospital based EMS days, I've worked with many a competent medic, none of them degreed. I don't hold a degree myself, but I'm currently in the process of completing my EMS AAS. A P-card gives me 37 credits. Add some math, english, and social sciences from back in the day and I only need less than 20 credits to finish. Anyone else can do the same. So, if my vision is too grandiose, how do you see EMS advancing regarding education and politics? I've only heard vague answers such as "increase education", "create a national standard", "make an EMS AAS the minimum standard for job entry", and such. Fine ideas. But how do you see that actually happening? What's your realistic plan? Oh yeah, my FD trains incumbents, ones who volunteer for an ALS upgrade and pass certain standards, to a degreed paramedic program for their ALS training. We also hold a 16 week ALS field internship, on ambulances not engines, with lectures by PA's and RN's as well. That's way more than most third service EMS agencies are doing, when you think about it. And that's just to start.

+1. Some sound like broken records on these EMS forums. Like I've said elsewhere, the only plausible way to change anything would be to earn either an EMS BA or BSN, take over EMS admin positions, and change things from up top. Expressing resentment and frustration towards the fire service is corny and changes nothing. Too bad that fire based EMS systems can work well if run properly. I know that it's easier to convince oneself that being dual role makes you less effective at either discipline, but I've seen plenty of evidence to the contrary. Yes, I can do your job just as good as you and do equally well with suppression duties. The trend is more toward dual role fire based EMS rather than single role muni/private. This is true even in these tough economic times, where systematic changes won't happen without cost savings or increased efficiency. As we speak, Alexandria Fire and EMS is planning to change all their dingle role medics to dual role. That's maybe 100 or so firemedic jobs vs the four that were lost in the Canadian city on the other thread here. Instead of taking pot shots at the fire service (sticks and stones....), get a four year degree, go admin, cease hiring basics, and require all medics to hold degrees. When enough medics hold degrees, the medic mills will be run out of business. Then, either EMS only organizations (which will finally hold power since the entry would be degreed medics, and therefore a less transient workforce) will reclaim fire based EMS territories, or firemedics will all be degreed, and therefore strong providers.

Not exactly epic. We all know that for every FF/medic job lost, there are ten or more created. Don't hold your breath. Actually, we like to play chess and watch movies in the evening. I thnk that every house here has seen The Hangover. I can't stop saying reTARD whenever it fits the situation (you know, the scene when they're driving in the desert and fat Jesus says that Rain Man can count cards and he was a reTARD).

Can we expand the challenge to include double entendres?

Speaking of specialties, I understand that Jamaica Hosp is a post arrest cooling center. What other hospitals have this designation? A friend of mine worked an arrest at Parker Jewish on the LIJ campus, achieved ROSC, and was mandated due to protocol to txp across the borough to Jamaica, maybe a 20-30 minute trip unless the highway is clear, then maybe 10. Does this make any sense? *For those without knowledge of Queens, Parker Jewish, a SNF/rehab facility is owned by and on the same grounds as LIJ hospital, on the border of Nassau County and Queens County, off exit 25 on the GCP and exit 33 on the LIE. Jamaica Hosp is off of the Van Wyck Expwy, much deeper in Queens, and can be an extended trip with traffic.*

I forgot to mention another important point - if the agency pulls units from the ED prematurely for calls as a rule, then they're misrepresenting the adequacy of their staffing and # of units in service, as well as response times. A unit isn't clear from the ED until their report is complete. The main intent of the prehospital PCR is to provide info on pt care, to facilitate transfer of care in conjunction with a verbal report. If your report isn't delivered to the ED staff in a timely fashion, as in before you go inservice, then pt transfer isn't truly complete, even though your blank form/tablet is signed. Many agencies refuse to upstaff their units, preferring instead to put units back in service to cover pending calls. This is an artificial way to increase coverage and response times. An EMS unit ought to be handling only one call at a time, but are in fact handling multiple, since their previous ones weren't finalized in regards to documentation. Instead of adequately upstaffing, they keep their existing units running constantly without regard to pt transfer obligations. When the bean counters look at the stats, they show adequate coverage and good response times. Good luck with ever having decent staffing levels and adequate units inservice. Tskstorm, one thing that freaked me out after I left NY was that whenever we arrived at the ED we immediately, with very few exceptions, were given a room with an ED tech and RN promptly assuming pt care. I've been backed up 7-8 deep at Elmhurst or Booth with an hour wait more times than I care to remember. It's freaky when you get a room with no wait, and a staff doing their own triage right away. Some ED's have supplied coffee makers, granola bars and other assorted snacks, Gatorade, hot cocoa, it's sweet (pardon the pun).

My experience in NYC was the same as how Richard B described it. For Charleston County EMS, you're considered clear the moment you show at the hospital. It's not uncommon to have the next call show up on your screen before you unload your pt from the bus. They have ePCR's with Zoll interface, so all the ED gets initially is vitals and ECG's. There is a 24 hour requirement to fax the completed report to the hosp. It's absolutely miserable to play catch up with four or five half finished reports at 0200 hours, or even at the station computer after your shift has ended. Fairfax County FRD won't dispatch you for another until you give the available signal, which is after the report is completed in it's entirety. We have Toughbook ePCR's like CCEMS. We also believe that we shouldn't be entering info into the ePCR while actively engaged in pt care. If you have an intern in the back with you, or are still onscene with other medics working the pt, then you may get a few things entered, but that's it. Typical ALS turnaround times in the County average 30-45 minutes, unless it's a complicated call with many interventions or an arrest, which naturally require more carefully documented, more extensive reports. I have a few thoughts about writing reports during pt care and being forced to clear the ED prior to PCR completion: CCEMS officially says that you shouldn't enter info during pt care, but it's unofficially encouraged (mandated even) that you get as much documented as possible, since it's highly likely that you'll be forced out of the ED prior to completion of the PCR. This obviously results in poor pt care if you're the sole provider riding in the back with the pt. There are many questionable unwritten rules at that place. If a crew has to play a constant game of documentation catch up with several reports during their shift, it becomes increasingly difficult as the day goes on to accurately document each report. You have maybe four or five reports with varying degrees of completion. It can be challenging to remember the details and pt interview from a few calls in the morning when it's now eight or ten hours later. This policy greatly increases the likelihood of inaccurate or even fabricated documentation, IMO and from personal observations. If it's policy to have crews be made available and handle calls without completing reports, then how important is it really to have a run documented by the crew? By making it policy to allow the crew to leave the ED with an unfinished document, only a verbal report to the ED staff, the agency is saying that PCR documentation is not necessary for the ED to treat the pt. Think about it - if you have 24 hours to complete and fax a report (or even 3 hours as some agencies require), the PCR is largely irrelevant to in hospital pt care at that point. the only importance the PCR holds at that point are billing, QA/QI and maybe some potential medicolegal issues. Subjecting crews to the constant game of PCR catch up throughout the shift, and into the overnight, only adds to burnout poor job satisfaction, and attrition.

Your dept is a rare example of what a progressive EMS agency can be when it also considers employee satisfaction. Union too. I love it. A few people from North Shore LIJ went down there back in '07. You may know them.

Nowhere in the article did I see how this program improves employee satisfaction or working conditions. SSM gives no consideration whatsoever to these important issues, just what's best for the agency/dept above all else. Instead of trying to predict the future aka gambling, put more units on the road to cover any spikes in call volume effectively, and also reduce call volume to lessen burnout and also to increase employee satisfaction. A happy employee is more likely to remain motivated and excel in their profession, rather than move on to other occupations. One can only be relocated so many times at night for coverage when trying to sleep (to maintain readiness to perform well), have so many meals interrupted, be mandated for forced OT so many times, be dispatched repeatedly in the ED while attempting to complete a report, one can only work so many shifts all the way through without any break whatsoever, etc. etc. until they burn out, which results in poorer and poorer job performance/attitude, and inevitable attrition. Any place that holds fast the attitude of "whatever is ultimately in the best interests of the dept" would make me extremely wary. That company line lets you know exactly where you stand woth them. Having a strong work ethic is important, but being asked to give more (while already performing at a high level) without receiving any improvements to employee compensation/benefits is wrong. Just to make up arbritrary numbers, if the company saves 15% by squeezing maximum productivity out of the employees, shouldn't they be rewarded with an extra 2-3% (or whatever)? Motivate your employees to be more productive, make it worth their while, in this case to do more with less, rather than create new ways to add to an already overworked employee's work load. Performance based merit increases along with bonuses for going above and beyond (however that may be quantified) would go a long way in increasing employee satisfaction and productivity. Just curious, how many of you out there that work for an agency that has adopted a form of SSM report greater job satisaction post implementation and why? All it does is make you busier, make you constantly relocate whan you're trying to eat/study/rest, and add to fatigue, with no observable benefit on the employee's side. Maybe it would save layoffs, but how many EMS agencies out there have actually implemented a reduction in force? I haven't heard of any. I'm not saying that we should all remain largely idle for our shifts, but rather that there should be enough units available to allow for an "off the radio" meal break (Nassau County PD EMS does it), enough time to complete a PCR at the ED before the next assignment, enough downtime for station duties and vehicle cleaning/maintenance. It's not cool when you're so busy that you're finally finishing a rig check 10 hours into your shift or later, or eating breakfast (or rather inhaling it, choking it down) at dinnertime. Too much Mickey D's and 7-11 will make you a heavy hitter over time. Some accept these things as a matter of course, as a coping mechanism. Coping mechanisms are used to deal with things that shouldn't be.

Ummm he may not have used the term "firemonkey" and such this time, but he's constantly posting comments of that nature. It doesn't matter what the topic is, monkey sees "fire", monkey bashes "fire". That was the ponit of my comment. Our EMS division is fully funded, so I don't see your point. My rig is brand new with 4000 miles and that new "green" technology where the exhaust is retained and superheated, and requires a regeneration if driven at slow speeds too often. Our supplies are fully stocked. Since our personnel are dual role, we don't have problems such as burnout due to mandatory OT, and our firemedics get a break from excessive call volume by rotating to and from the engine. Retention and longevity are easier to achieve when firemedics can work different aspects of the job and not get burnt or feel "stuck" in a certain position. I agree with fire based EMS probably as much if not more than you disagree with it. Don't project the shortcomings and faults of your former dept onto mine.

Speaking of lack of brains, every time the word fire is uttered, it's "firemonkey, stupid, incompetent, etc. etc.". It's like a Pavlovian response. Such responses strongly suggest a high degree of jealousy. Or did a FF steal your girl, beat you up or something? Your fire bashing is transparent and nauseating. Also, to make the comment that fire suppression requires no intelligence I would assume that you have significant experience in the fire service? Or are you just making blanket ASSumptions as usual? There's a little more to it than aiming an oversized garden hose.

I can assure you that this type of occurence is in no way exclusive to fire based EMS. In my travels both in hosp based EMS and third service EMS I've witnessed medics skell out on not working an arrest by telling me that they'll document lividity, since by the time that the medical examiner arrives there will be lividity present. Since no one was there other than the crew doing the pronouncement, no one can say that there wasn't lividity at the time. I don't agree with that, however. At my FD we're required to print a strip prior to pronouncement. In the case of a traumatic arrest, we will auscultate for heart sounds prior to field/txp pronouncement as well. What I've never understood is why some will document a BP of 0/0 on an unwitnessed medical arrest for a pronouncement. The thought is that if you're checking for a BP it must have been a fresh arrest, to be worked. Why else would you check BP? Good way to get yourself jammed up.

You know how the game goes - the employer "asks" you to resign, implying that you get to keep your work record clean, rather than having to explain a termination to the next employer. The truth is, when the new employer calls the old, they aren't allowed to speak ill of the employee. However, if they're asked "Would you hire this employee again?" they are permitted to reply "No". The new employer then "reads between the lines". This is why a wise individual never burns their bridges, or draws animosity from co-workers. You never know when you'll need a reference, and you'll be unpleasantly suprised when your adversary becomes your new boss.

That AFFF stuff is great! Say you had an inground swimming pool full of burning fuel, you could just pour a large cup on top, and it'll spread and cover the entire surface, snuffing out the fire. He got what he deserved. Kudos to the FD for firing him, thereby maintaining the integrity of the dept. In discussing unions, I've said that dept SOP's and GOP's should be in place to keep employees in line, and also to discourage/prevent sloth. The LT's firing is one such example.

Damn, this is ghetto! http://www.opcems.org/pdf/PCR%20Outage%20FAQ.pdf http://www.cnyems.or...%20Shortage.pdf NYS has actually run out of PCR's for the forseeable future. I wouldn't purchase any muni bonds from NYS anytime soon.

Update - Career Development advised me that all community colleges in VA have 100% transfer between them. These credits are also honored 100% by all 4 year universities in state as well. That's cool, because someone who seeks a 4 year degree only needs to pay the big bucks for the final two years. The educational requirements for promotion are currently being restructured, but education will be weighed heavily. For certain, promotion to LT will require an Assosciate's, and promotion to Capt I and above will require a Bachelor's at the minimum. Degrees need to be job related, so RN, EMS, Emergency Management, Business Admin, EMS Management, etc. are all desireable. I won't need a Bachelor's for at least another 7-8 years, so I'll likely go EMS AAS, ASN, then EMS admin. I'll do fire science later, if I'm bored, as these other degrees will help career advancement to a greater degree. I've been advised that a medic tech cert will satisfy 40-42 credits. I'm not 100% sure of the exact #, but 40-42 or so for someone with no previous college is closely approximate. The program totals 68 credits. If my credits from Baruch transfer, I can use my elem Calculus, Psy, Soc, Eng, etc. My accounting credits will likely be obsolete for possible future application for a BBA/MBA program in the distant future if I decide to go that route (not likely, but you never know). Add in pharm and A&P, and I'm looking at maybe 15-20 credits at the most to complete the degree. I don't know why this didn't idea didn't occur to me several years ago. http://www.nvcc.edu/curcatalog/programs/pdf/ememed.pdf Given the current state of EMS education, it's unlikely in the near future that the majority of prospective medics will opt for a degree program when easier, more efficient options exist, and are also abundant. I don't see it. The field is largely transient in nature, no one can deny that. When touting the benefits and necessity of legitimate education to advance the profession, both on internet forums and in the field, I believe that significant headway could be made by persuading cert medics to upgrade to a degree. It's not as desireable as starting off with a degree, but it's certainly much better than doing nothing. Perhaps the instruction in tech schools was substandard (depending on where you go) but going Medic tech cert > EMS AAS will still result in a higher percentage of the workforce holding degrees, for the benefit of the profession. A tech cert basically covers 60% or more of a degree program, and the remainer can be done piecemeal, one class at a time if one desires. Someone who doesn't have 2-3 years to complete an AAS initially can still do it while working FT having gone the cert route.

I'm confused - I've read several posts by Canadians that state their country has completely seperate fire and EMS. Anyway, those FF's have a valid point. When they joined the fire service EMS wasn't in their job description. There's an easy solution to that. Grandfather in those employees so they aren't required to do EMS, and only have certain apparatus respond to EMS jobs. Require new hires to have either their EMT or medic, depending on the job type (FF vs firemedic). Canada requires their medics to hold degrees, so one would think that these firemedics would be more serious about the medical side when compared to American firemedics who just use the cert to get the job, as some would say. If EMS would deploy the proper amount of units, not relying heavily on forced OT, rather than nickle and dime by running the bare minimum (like SSM and such) there wouldn't be a need for fire to provide coverage when EMS txp units are spread thin.

OMG how many times do I have to explain this? I've said that a tech cert can be adequate if you go to the right school. Case in point would be Stonybrook's paramedic program in Suffolk County, NY. Most medics in the greater NY area are tech grads. Go to NY Presbyterian or North Shore LIJ, two solid agencies that do both NYC 911 and IFT, and tell them they're stupid because they lack a degree. Don't take my word for it, go call the NSUH Manhasset ED and ask them their opinion of the hospital's EMS. A degree is necessary, or at least more helpful for career advancement into an admin position, or satisfying pre-reqs for other degrees. At the present, I've given career development within the FRD top priority. I enjoy both sides of the job. It's about the money of course, but I love coming to work and give myself 100% to job performance. Any degree will do to satisfy the educational points for the promotional list. Fire science would be easy to accomplish, but it's useless outside of the FD until you're testing for Batt. Chief. After satisfying the education points, I plan to pursue a degree as either an RRT or RN. I'd honestly enjoy the work. Just not FT as my first choice, but I'd choose those fields over many others if that makes sense. I'd likely be pursuing that if the fire thing never materialized. At my hosp based EMS job in NY, we had fixed schedules. Completing an ASN or RRT FT would be doable with a fixed schedule tailored to school. I've thought about PA, but I can't leave work to satisfy the time requirement necessary. These degrees, the BSN, RRT, PA and such are more tailored for the young adult who is still living with their parents, with few financial obligations, certainly not a working professional with a family. So, I feel that the best course of action would be to earn the medic degree (both for the quick education points and the desire to begin teaching in a few years), then an ASN degree (the 4 years for RRT, FT, isn't looking possible with my rotating schedule). I may then go for BSN later. I may also do emergency management before the BSN if it will aid in career advancement. When I retire at 58, with a 75% pension, a three year DROP and my 457, I'd like to work either as an RN (maybe RT, who knows, I've got time to decide) part time, because I want to, not because I have to. I'd like a flexible schedule for travel. I'd like my deferred comp continue to compound post "retirement", and also for the DROP money to compound. The purpose of the DROP is to pay for the increased medical plan premium until medicare kicks in. If I can pay that with my PT post retirement salary, that DROP money (it'll be at least 500k) will likely double. Rule of 72 - divide 72 by the interest rate, and that's approx. how long your principal will take to double. Many retirees (or near retirees) screw this up by changing their portfolio to mostly bonds, money market, CD's or T-bills. Since money grows exponentially, the last 10 years of compounding are the most effective. Any decent balanced fund with maybe 60% in equities and 40% in bonds should net at least 7% over the long term (10 years or more). Define "nice retirement". That's a subjective term. Care to enlighten? What amount and type of assets do you feel one needs in retirement to be financially secure? Job satisfaction is important, sure, but that doesn'r necessary translate into prosperity. I'd like to be able to afford to eat, have a roof over my head and afford meds in retirement, and not have to sign off on a reverse mortgage to do it. I don't see how going into the fire service for the compensation is supposed to make me an inferior FF. I enjoy the work, and even if I didn't, I would still do the job well. How many people truly enjoy their career choice in the long term? I mean truly enjoy? How can accounting, law, working the floor at the NYSE, managing a McDonalds, Target, or a supermarket be truly enjoyable for those working these positions? How many disgruntled medics and RN's have you come across? It doesn't mean that they're incometent and a danger to others, just burnt.

Education for any prospective career is an important and vaild topic. The financial aspect is equally important and valid. It's not selfish to seek a quicker way to a higher salary, it simply smart and efficient. If I'm nauseating you about finances, then I'm sure others are nauseated by your constant derision of those in EMS lacking a degree. It's as it they're incapable, as a whole, of being effective providers without a degree. A proper college education ought to prepare one better for the field, sure, but I know plenty of individuals with tech certs who do well. Hey, I'm not whining about anything. I choose the most efficient way to go about things. I got my medic cert through a 14 month program, and chose the more financially appealing route of the firemedic over pursuing an RN degree at the time. I still have the option of earning an RN degree or upgrading to a medic degree, or both. I'm not confused about where to progress, it's just that there are so many options available, with no pressure due to lack of money or revolving debt. It's called having your cake and eating it too. When I asked about RT vs RN vs fire science, I was wondering aloud about which option would be best. Do I want to promote quickly within the dept, or do I want to complete a healthcare related degree for side work and a fall back option? What's the opportunity cost of delaying promotion when I can satisfy educational points first and pursue other avenues in healthcare after the fact? I would enjoy working in the hospial setting, so having a degree to that end that allows me to work that on the side, as well as have it as a fallback in the event of injury makes it a desireable option. I have several goals in mind, it's just a matter of assigning priorities and finding the most efficient way of achieving them. I'm currently seeking to do as much online as possible as I have a young daughter at home and another one due in Jan. I screwed my wife over when I went to medic school. She gave birth to my first in August, and I was in class in Oct. 32-40 hours/wk when clinicals started, while working FT. I'd rather spend more time with my family and do as much online as possible. Going FT for RN or RRT is something that I'll be more open to in 4-5 years or so. If I were able to complete either degree doing only 3-9 credits at a time (depending on availability) I would have been chipping away at it all along. Other professions allow it, but not many healthcare related programs. I'm not confused, just weighing my options. It's nice to have options. It may sound glib to throw around (side) career options that others do FT and wholeheartedly, but it's not intended to be so.

I posted that link to show what I thought a potential scam might look like. NOVA Annandale Campus and Tidewater look like two options worth exploring here. I discussed previously the need for educational points for career development at my job. Those educational points become progressively more valuable as you move up the career ladder, and lack of such points will result in lack of career advancement. I originally thought that I would go for ASN or RRT. Having to go FT instead of being able to go PT to work around a busy work schedule makes that an undesireable option at the moment. I plan to get a two year degree quickly for career advancement purposes, and then pursue the ASN or RRT a few years down the road, with a goal of completion by 2016. I then thought of maybe a fire science degree, but I feel that it has little value at this early juncture of my career. That leaves the medic degree. I'm not looking to CLEP out of pre reqs, but I feel that I shouldn't have to repeat much of the actual course content or clinicals, having already done so at my tech school. I also have 4+ years of related ALS experience for busy systems. How much they're willing to credit me for remains to be seen, but the 24 credits or so you mentioned seems about right. Hopefully much of that (clinicals/labs notwithstanding) will be online. I feel that the medic degree would be the easiest, quickest and most relevant course of study at this juncture. I'd like to teach at some point in the future, and perhaps work in an admin position for EMS in a FD or third service agency post retirement. A medic degree would be a good start. Members of EMS admin have contacts with NOVA and Tidewater, so I'll see where that goes. I finally secured an appointment at the career development office next week. I'll discuss the results of the meeting, so others that may wish to upgrade to a degree can benefit. I know what thread on emtlife you're talking about. What I said is that it's amusing to give another viewpoint, a valid one, and get a strong response. Nothing I've posted was fabricated. It may go against the grain, but it's not fantasy. With another thread here I mentioned opportunity cost. Check my math if you like. Someone with a tech cert could save 10 grand annually for 10 consecutive years, put it in a balanced ETF (or retail fund) gaining 7-8% on average, and then just leave it there for the remaining 30 years of their career. They'll have over 2 million at retirement. Imagine if they continue to contribute into deferred comp. Or if their contributions were to increase with salary increases. The MD, who doesn't really start earning until they're in their 30's should be able to do the same thing, but it will take a much larger contribution to accomplish that. College is important, but it's not the only path to prosperity. All I was saying is that one should have opportunity cost in mind when they choose their course of action.

Thanks for the lead. I found this on a quick search - http://www.worldwidelearn.com/campus...302107/162008/ I already have the medic credentials, FF 1 and 2, as well as life experiences. It seems too easy, though. I'm wondering if schools like this are legit or are just joke degrees, only looking for your money, with no transfer anywhere or acknowledged by employers, which is the whole point of the thing anyway.