46Young

I posted a while back about the pursuing an RN or RRT degree for both career development and other presonal benefit. I think the best initial course of action would be to upgrade my medic (tech) cert to a legit degree. I intend to speak with career development when I return to work tomorrow. In the meantime, does anyone have any insight as to how these programs work? What scams are out there? What schools should I stay away from? I wouldn't imagine that it would take an additional two years to earn the degree if a cert program was already completed, and also with sufficient relevant work experience. If it's an easy enough process, as in career friendly and family friendly, perhaps many others could be motivated to upgrade their tech certs as well, to the benefit of our pts, ourselves, and the profession as a whole. If it's a pain in the a$$, the profession may continue to stagnate. The education advocates here may want to glance over this link http://www.worldwidelearn.com/online-education-guide/health-medical/emt-paramedic-major.htm

Yeah, he's the dude with the brogue. I know what you mean, too many EMT's look discheveled, take no pride in their appearance, and some look like mutants. I know that Presby medics can run more PICU's without escorts than NSLIJ. Really, though, one needs to advance past paramedic to really do anything truly significant.

I got my start at Hunter in '02. It was okay, 19-20/hr for medics. They break your balls to clear jobs fast, and tell you to grab a 10-100 "on the way". Wayne was shady, Dominic was a good guy. It's poorly funded, and there's always someone ready to replace you when you refuse to take any more BS. You do the math on that. Same for Transcare. I worked for NSLIJ from 3/03 to 10/07, 2 1/2 years BLS, 2 years ALS. Their hiring process has changed from the favoritism practices of past. I had no problem working there. If you're one who has a good work ethic and will do what the employer wants without whining, NSLIJ will work for you. In IFT they want no more than 20 mins from marking onscene to leaving the facility, the same at the 10-81 (receiving facility). If any admin delays, dispatch is to be called immediately. They want your checkout done in 20 mins tops. The PCR nazis will pore over your ppw, and ignorance to protocols, policy & procedures, competent documentation methods and proper billing will be dealt with swiftly. I would never complain about late jobs, and would often volunteer to stay late on OT to clear the board, or to be reassigned to another unit next tour without complaint. They like that. In 911, it's follow the cookbook. It's like that for the whole NYC 911 system. If you wish to deviate from protocol to follow best practices and evidence based Tx, you need to convince OLMC telemetry and get their blessing. I've heard that Transcare sucks, but their 911 isn't as tightly regulated as others, and their IFT is busy. None of the privates IMO are any place to make a career. Go hospital based for $$$ and advancement opportunities, go FDNY EMS (they are hiring medics from what I've heard) for benefits, pension, full medical coverage via GHI. NSLIJ and Presby go as far as I've seen EMS go with IFT, compared with most other areas of the country regarding scope and autonomy. If you desire to do "real" IFT, not just convalescent txp, you'll have to become an RN or RRT first.

Yo whatever you say, man. During my academy I repeatedly said that our experiences here would make for a great reality show. I'm stoked that there's now actually a reality series that comes pretty damn close to what we had to go through in our class. Don't be a killjoy. What they didn't show was the fun we had, like tossing a water cooler full of ice water on someone while in the shower and other frat boy stuff. Good times. Now I can show my wife why I would sometimes turn in to bed at 2000 hrs or earlier, spend an hour + shining my shoes, pressing my uniform and pulling all strings, doing hours of dress drills (don/doff) in the yard with classmates, or combining our ropes and hardware to set up lowering systems and emergency rappeling from my balcony for hours. It was a great experience, although I'd prefer to never have to do it again. The bonds made in recruit school often last for one's entire career. My officers, with 20 years + experience, still refer to another officer as their "academy buddy" when they describe them to me prior to a next day detail to their station.

My high school installed metal detectors for my senior year ('94) and with good reason. Many of the city's high schools are stricken with gang members and others of bad influence. If you go out to Long Island, homeowners pay 9-15 grand in property taxes alone just to be in a desireable school district. If you can afford tuition, you can always go with private schools, such as St. Francis Prep or Christ the King, both in Queens. 2 BR for 1200-1500/month, first and last month's rent, along with one month's security due up front, for decent areas such as Middle Village, Ridgewood, Glendale, and some parts of Maspeth/Elmhurst near Grand Ave from 69th street up to Queens Blvd, or 65th place from the LIE up to QB.

I suppose we're fortunate here. We have a FT occupational health center that does a full yearly physical including blood work, TB testing, pulmonary function, treadmill stress test, hemoccult testing, vision/hearing and such. We're required to PT every shift, and we have gyms in every station, access to county rec centers, and hookups with local gyms for on duty PT. Smoking is prohibited for all employees as well. As an aside, during the summer, if we get toned out during an intense session, I have Gatorade ready. I use the Deer Park 3/4 gallon jug. I use 1/4 the recommended concentration of Gatorade powder. I keep it 1/2 frozen, so I can down a quart or so of the slurry on the way to a call. Works great!

14 of the New Haven 20 get their promotions by order of a Federal Judge, overturning reverse racism. http://www.newhavenindependent.org/archives/2009/11/judge_orders_fi.php

It's freaky how much my academy is like the show. I know I've said this before. We lost 8 people to failures. Two strikes and your out. The instructors are right - if you can't handle the pressure in testing, how can you perform in real life? It's no different for EMS. That recruit who turned his back on the other FF ought to be released from the academy. You don't leave your partner for ANYTHING. That willingness to risk your life for a fellow FF and stay with them when things go bad is a given when you apply. When you're working inside you do what the Lt says. Sure, the Lt should utilize crew resource management, but they're directing our actions. If he stays, it's highly likely that the incident will follow him to the field. I can't wait for the maze training portion of the show. I loved it, but it's a claustrophobic's worst nightmare. You're blacked out, on air, and need to negotiate tight holes and corners, take off your pack to get through a reduced profile, and disentangle yourself from the cables. It can be rough. My academy had a maze trailer. Twice they took out the disentanglement and reduced profile, and made a super maze going through the entire high bay, up/down steps, through a moving pipe, through a bus, under a pumper and the bus (several tight squeezes). I ran out of air on one of them. The instructors teach you to get every last "drop" of air out of your cylinder, and let you just about pass out before they remove your regulator. It's miserable. They also like to cut off your air when you're distracted and don't notice them turning the knob, and you need to know what to do. In either case, you DO NOT take off your regulator. On a sad note, there was a woman going through the Prince William volunteer FF course recently, doing maze training, collapsed and later died. The maze is no joke. I'm suprised that they didn't show the recruits climbing the aerial (85 degree angle), hooking in at the top and leaning back. To get control of one's fear of heights. 2:45. Check it out.

Not that it's right, but if I were to go to school for all those years, do a residency, fellowship and whatever else required, not making any real money until I'm 30 or older (loan repayments), insurance against tort, and investing in a private practice, along with lousy reimbursement rates I'd look for ways to make my educational investment actually be profitable as well.

http://www.nyhealth.gov/nysdoh/ems/certification/reciprocity.htm Click on the information packet for NYS EMT reciprocity. You'll be much better off completing your medic program in NYC or NJ. Ride alongs are on double medic units, who only get ALS call types, a large number of them. Compare this to other areas in the country where the ALS units run everything. Time spent on medic unit ride alongs need not be wasted on calls that aren't challenging your newly learned knowledge and capabilities. Outside of NY/NJ these units only get true ALS calls that are few and far between. Instead, you'll be running a bunch of minor injuries, psych pts, sick calls (may be something more, but not likely - always do a full assessment), drunks and such. Not that these pts aren't important, but you ought to have more of a challenge during medic ride alongs. In NY/NJ a typical 8-12 hour rotation will produce a cardiac arrest or two, a CHF pt, critical asthmatic, maybe an MI or two, unconscious/apneic junkie, multi-trauma, etc. You'll have at least 2-3 good jobs per rotation, maybe more. No exaggeration. Just pull rotations in the rougher parts of B'klyn, uptown in the city, most of the Bronx. The learning curve will go through the roof. Many of these medics aren't degree medics, however. You decide if they're good at what they do or not.

I never said that I don't enjoy medic work or firefighting. But since I have mouths to feed, I didn't have the time to put forth for a degree. We were increasing our revolving debt too quickly for our liking. We work jobs to support ourselves. It's only natural to seek the most prosperous route. People say that they do EMS or firefighting for love of the job, not to become wealthy. I simply refused to accept that, and chose instead to change my reality. If you're going to do what you love, do it for the best compensation package possible. I go to work with a smile on my face every day. It doesn't even feel like work. Understandable, as many volunteer on both sides. I have love for both sides of the job, and I'm becoming wealthy as well. If lucrative firemedic jobs weren't available, I would've completed a degree in nursing, as that would have been the best option. I would recommend to that the individual in their late teens to mid 20's to take the time to complete a degree. When the bills need to be paid, compensation becomes the main motivating factor. Again, I never said not to pursue a degree, but only to consider all factors before deciding on a path. the opportunity was there for the firemedic job, so I went with it. It pays off, and doesn't negate my degree aspirations. There are many out of work college grads out there currently. Choose your career wisely. My insurance will replace my salary 100% should I become disabled/injured, and I can still complete a degree (or two, or three). There are numerous avenues for career development both here and within the county, and many require degrees. You tell me that I'm "locked" into a certain salary, to which I say "Yes, and I'm lucky have such a generous earning potential". My Capt earns exactly twice my base hourly. That's way more than an experienced BSN makes around here. I understand the desire to excel in your chosen profession, to continually improve that profession, and general job satisfaction. I'm a realist. I could never be a teacher making peanuts with a Master's. I could have went to school and did reasonably well afterwards. Instead, I successfully pursued employment, in a thoroughly enjoyable position, that compensates (and will continue to compensate) well in excess of what I would have earned the other way. I know, I circumvented the educational process and do better than most. If that opportunity wansn't there, I would have earned a degree by now. Some call it taking the easy route, I call it taking the intelligent route, for my situation. Again, for the young person, a degree would be the best choice, bar none. You'll be 22-24 y/o and armed to the teeth with education, My route is more suited for someone farther along in their life, and differing financial needs. Hey, with all this money I'm making my childrens' 529's will be adequate for college costs. I'd like to send them into the adult world debt free with a strong understanding of personal finance. Also, you forget that when I was considering Excelsior, it was back in '05, when the program was in good standing. I watched many complete the program, get hired locally (NYC and Long Island), and do well. At the time, I knew nothing of the inadequacies of the program. it sounded like wa win-win proposition. Complete the dergree on your own time, and go away to complete your skills at the end. Very work friendly. Excelsior graduates expressed no difficulty in getting hired, or difficulty in job performance when questioned. This is all I had available to go on at the time. What the site says now, what states added additional requirements or not recognizing the program now, weren't the same 4 years ago. It was all good back then. Truth be told, if I were to go with RN as a career, I would have went to the CC, in prep for eventual advancement to BSN, maybe NP or something. Having the option to do a medic-RN bridge was a factor in choosing medic school over an RN degree at the time. You may say that I'm doing it just for the money, but I'm making more than many college graduates, have excellent salary, benefits, job security, job satisfaction, a three year DROP (that alone is worth 400-500k), and plenty of room for advancement. Everyone has their price. How many would quit their jobs, or at least quit working FT if they hit the lottery? It's an extreme example, but it's really the same thing. How many would leave their chosen career as a condition of an offering for a 5 million dollar payout?

Don't get me wrong, EMS should be a degreed profession, but it isn't at the moment. I've been focusing on the financial angle as compensation is a major component when considering a career path. All I'm saying is that one needs to consider all factors when planning a career path, to truly make a fully informed decision. Opportunity cost is rarely discussed. When my daughter was born, I had to consider the opportuity cost of going to (a tech) medic school vs enrolling in an ASN program at a local CC. Almost every single medic I knew were tech grads. the general outlook in the area is that of "Why spend 2 years + in college when you can do it in half the time, and be working that much sooner?" These were my peers, who naturally influenced my attitude regarding education at the time. Most intended to be career medics, or get degrees in other fields at some point. This decision to enroll in medic school was made in 9/04. I could go to medic school and be working ALS by 10/05, or I could begin the RN program in 8/05, finishing in 5/07. Medic school cost 6k, the RN program would have been around 15k or so if I remember correctly. I was earning 20.22/hr with 10% night diff as an EMT, working all nights. Upon graduation, I was upgraded to medic for 22.02/hr for 6 months (40 hour workweek in NYC), then 26.72/yr for 6 more months, then 30.31/hr by 10/06. I was still working nights, making 10% on top of that. OT and per diem work was widely available. I made 80k the first year, 85k the second. RN's were starting at around 70k/yr at the time. My next step was to get into a position that earns a pension. I briefly considered FDNY EMS, and then dismissed that idea. I reconsidered getting my RN, either by going to a CC or through Excelsior, like many of my co-workers. This program was still regarded well, and this was NY, where the program originates. I would then work for Stonybrook hospital, earning 65k/yr with a pension. It was at this time that two individuals from my job visited back up from Fairfax, and told me about the firemedic career path. I again considered the opportunity cost of staying in NY, not putting in time towards a pension vs getting on at Fairfax, which is far more lucrative than any other available options at that present time. I was also 30 y/o at the time. I was behind the 8-ball regarding retirement. Education is highly desireable, but in my particular case it was far more beneficial to do what I did. I still have the option of continuing my education, and I fully intend to. I simply made the best possible financial moves given my particular situation.

It's not a good stategy if you plan on selling in a short amount of time. Otherwise, it makes perfect sense. When the markets rise, pulling equity from your house to invest is a way to capture that equity should prices dip again. That works as long as your monthly payments are wholly affordable. Who cares if home prices dip again if you don't plan to move? It's an unrealized loss, or rather a realized gain, as you've invested that equity. You know that an equity will only sell for as much as the buyer is willing to pay. Owning a home outright is far from a safe investment. If I prepay into principal rather than invest the same amount, I'll eventually end up house rich and cash poor. What happens if you lose your job? You'll have a home (as long as you can still pay property taxes), but you can no longer buy food or other basic necessities. By taking out equity and reinvesting it you're enjoying the mortgage interest write off all over again, and also the compound interest of that new equity, with the reinvested tax savings, along with any funds that you would otherwise pay into principal, at a compounded rate. Prepayments into principal only save you whatever the interest rate of your mortgage is, the same as simple interest, not compound. This is far from risky. This is why: the housing market is sizzling, and you've taken equity out, leaving about 20% in. The monthly payments are affordable. The equity is in your portfolio. It can be applied back toward the principal at any time you wish. The new interest savings along with a higher return will more than compensate for the fees assosciated with underwriting a new mortgage, even if you do it for a couple of years. That's the key point. You can put that cash back into the house whenever you want. Or, you can repeat the process when your salary grows significantly in proportion to the monthly payments. This is a safe way to make your house's equity work for you. Grow your portfolio large enough, and the interest will pay your mortgage. Maybe not in full, but then maybe it can. Think about it. By following this strategy, the equity in your house can pay your mortgage for you. the key is to refi when interest rates are low, and the payments hold a large ratio of principal to interest, in favor of principal. You have a BBA, run the numbers and you'll see how it's a sound plan.

Why sell when the market goes back up? Refi, take equity out of the house, as much as you can and still have reasonable montly payments. Invest the proceeds in a portfolio that earns a higher return than the interest rate of the mortgage. don't prepay into principal, either. Invest that as well. Mortgage interest is tax deductible, payments to principal are not. Your investment account will grow much larger than the amount of interest you would have saved through prepayment. You wouldn't keep money under the mattress, would you? So why keep it in the walls of your house? With that investment account, you can still pay off your house early if you want, and you have greater liquidity - the money is available in case of emergency. Even if your portfolio only matches the interest rate of the mortgage, two things will work in your favor - compound interest, and tax-deductible mortgage interest. Don't prepay principal to the bank, let those funds work for you instead. Otherwise, you'll never see that money again, unless you take out a home equity loan. It baffles me how individuals think that it's actually a good idea to prepay principal, and later borrow it back from the bank. Or, sell your house during the next housing boom, buy another in a cheaper area, put 20% down, invest the rest, and let the interest pay a large chunk of your mortgage payment, if not all of it. Couple that with a pension and deferred comp with some equity exposure to outpace inflation while providing income to compensate for that same rate of inflation, and you're set.

I've said before that I enjoy pt care. RN or RT are two fields that interest me. I'm already making great money, so the significant time investment that I would have to make to earn a degree had better be worth it financially. That's why I' m fixated on opportunity cost. I have a wife and a chld (soon to be two). If I'm going to spend countless hours away from home, there needs to be a significant financial incentive to do so. I could just bang out a BS fire science degree and earn the extra points for promotional purposes. I thought that it would be of much greater benefit to both myself and my pts if I went for RN or RT. They would both be good fields to work for in retirement if I want something to do. The required FT commitment isn't compatible with my current situation. I'll defer that for 5 years or so when I'll have more leave saved, along with paybacke to call in for exchange of shifts. You're right that I do this for the money first. That's what a job is. It provides an income stream. Some are lucky to do what they enjoy, some are miserable in their chosen field. Think about it. I dropped out of college, went to a medic tech school, and I'm now making 69k base with plenty of available scheduled OT, promotions are done off of a competitive, unbiased list, many career advancement opportunities, pension of 72% at 25 years or 55 years of age plus a three year DROP. Starting RN's here make around 50-55k, RRT's around 60k or so. I've already got 60k+ in deferred comp, and more than enough to buy a decently sized SFH in a good school district. The pension alone will be between 150k and 200k, depending on promotions 25 years or so from now. Multiply that annual benefit times three for the DROP monies, add my deferred comp, and to equal my annual benefit one would need 3-4 million in a bond fund paying 5% interest to match. Not bad for a college dropout. So yes, I used my medic cert to land this job. It wasn't my original intention when completing the medic program, it just worked out that way. It was either all this, or go back to school. Doing what's best for my family is what led me to this decision. Simple as that. I've always had a desire to do fire, so it worked out well. As such, I can further my education at my leisure, not FT while also working FT because I'm behind the 8 ball. If I can gain influence within the dept, I do intend to push for medics having a degree as a condition of hire. They're already sending incumbents for their Assosciates currently.

Most of work for a paycheck. I've shown that it is possible to circumvent the degree process if your only aspiration is field EMS. Many don't have the time to pursue a degree due to personal issues. Not going the degree route doesn't necessarily make for an inferior medic, especially with time in service. Most providers in NYC are tech grads. I've done some traveling, and I've seen some damn fine medics in action back home. Is a degree desireable? Sure. Should it be the standard? Sure. Is it necessary at the moment? No. Other professions have raised the educational bar prior to increasing compensation. These professionals had already decided on their chosen profession, and were there to stay. EMS, on the other hand, attract individuals that seek a quick income stream, and the profession is laden with transient individuals. It is what it is. When I was referring to piecemeal, I was pointing to the fact that incumbents have 5 years to get two years of ed, while newcomers must do it FT, nothing less. You're right about me, the almighty dollar is the prime motivator for me. I didn't originally intend to go fire, but rather go for RN/RT and do EMS on the side. But then I learned of the lucrative career/retirement of firemedics, and it was an easy choice. This career allows me to achieve my financial goals. Everything else, including increased ed/scope of EMS is nice to have, (I'm going to pursue EMS admin) and I'll help within the dept to that end, but it's secondary to my bottom line. If they'll send me back to school for a degree upgrade, I'll go for it. Otherwise, my energy is better spent elsewhere regarding career development. RT or RN will have to wait until later as these programs don't allow part time participation, only FT devotion. It's difficult to clear that amount of time at this present juncture.

It's a NY tradition to take a huge cash bolus down south, jack up home values, and try to make the new neighborhood as much as like it was where we came from as we can

I work an average of 56 hours/wk. If you discount a hour or two of PT a day plus sleeping and studying for college courses on duty, it's more like 40 hours or less XD. Plus, it's not really like work anyway. People volunteer to do this, it's so enjoyable. I make around 69k as a base, with a lower cost of living and around half the cost for housing that I had in NYC, where I was making only 60k/yr before leaving. Diazepam's cost of living may be high, but his pension will be just as high. He can leave for an area with a lower cost of living post retirement and live like a king. That's what I'm going to do. I plan to keep equity out of my house, invest it, sell my primary residence at retirement, buy another in a lower cost of living area, mortgage 80%, add the rest to my previous investments, and let the interest pay my mortgage in full, or close to it. Financially free baby! I found the NREMT about as challenging as the NYS exam. NY dosn't use it, or allow reciprocity in with the NREMT-P. IMO, it's only a necessary evil for those who want to work in another state without doing a challenge refresher.

I love it! Good PR for the fire service, along with the OCFA academy. I find it amusing that EMS needs dramas, with sometimes gross embellishments to pique viewer interest. With fire and police (more so fire), just let the cameras roll, and you'll have all the interesting REAL footage that you'll need. How many cop movies are there, how many fire movies are there, and how many EMS movies are there? I loved Bringing Out The Dead, BTW.

History has shown that the vast majority of individuals have a poor financial eduaction, as evidenced by overextended credit, real estate speculation, underfunding 401k's etc. etc. Our example shows how one of a lesser salary can come out ahead of one that is more gainfully employed. Most college students don't work FT. I have never met any that contribute to an IRA while completing a degree. In this hypothetical situation, the candidate needs to decide whether or not to go the degree route, for financial reasons. In NY, they're only 7k or less. You make that back in the first year, plus more available OT and per diem work. My retirement portfolio is divided up int 75% equities, 15% bonds, and small hedge positions in gold, REIT's, and cash. We further divide up these asset classes into large/medium/small cap growth/value, and mainly intermediate term bonds, gov't and investment grade, with small allocations for short and long term. We use percentage based portfolio rebalancing to ensure that we're always selling low and buying high. This reduces volatility, but dosen't hamper growth. As you know, it mathematically twice as difficult for equities to rise than it is to fall. We use primarily ETF's, as retail funds are subject to bracket creep, high turnover, and style drift. Not mythical at all. It isn't that difficult. Consult with a good financial advisor in regards. A tech school may feature a watered down version of A&P and pharm. It isn't optimal, but you'll still get hired, and you can complete these requirements after graduation, at your leisure if you desire. As for me having a "fatal assumption" I feel that's a bit dramatic. If, and that's a BIG if we are required to become degreed medics, we'll have a period of time in which we can upgrade piecemeal, like other healthcare professions before us. It's FT professionals in other fields that want to become medics that would be at a disadvantage at thet point. I'm not anti - education per se, but I'm showing that there are other ways to go about things, other routes to prosperity. Tell me why it's lucrative to carry a big, long mortgage. Form one, tell me why it's lucrative to pull money out of your house. Tell me why prepaying your mortgage is foolish. I'll run financial rings around most (maybe not MBA's and the like) with four year degrees with my career choice, future degree aspirations, and financial strategies. I'm a tech school graduate and an accounting dropout currently.

Just because it isn't a college doesn't necessarily make it an inferior education in regards to preparation for the field. It's all about which program you go to. Maybe it was just in NYC, but I didn't notice a difference in proficiency from tech graduates and degree medics. Great on the job training fir 911 with only ALS call types with a high volume of high acuity pts. There are also two great hospitals that do IFT, NSLIJ and NY Presbyterian (Cornell). Both systems enjoy a decent scope of practice and autonomy. Low percentage of degreed medics there. Maybe NY medics, many of who were educated at the cert level only, should be insulted by your insinuations that non-degreed medics are largely incapable and inadequate in regards to pt care. Maybe EMS doesn't compare to other healthcare professions in regards to educational requirements currently, but it doesn't have to. In my example, one could go to a tech school and get the jump on retirement and other savings over the degree medic, assuming they only want to stay in EMS. If they want to get degree status, they could always do it a few years later, when they're commanding a higher salary. the point is, unless you have plans to advance your career, obtaining a degree holds absolutely no financial benefit. As far as being a minimalist, anyone who needs to work FT will find it next to impossible to pursue a degree as a RRT, ASN/BSN, or PA, as these courses don't allow for piecemeal completion, only FT dedication. The cert medic will have the luxury of upgrading piecemeal, as did RT's and others. Newcomers are afforded no such convenience. So, if a medic-RN bridge program were adequate as prep for the field, then why wouldn't one seek to go that route? My FD covets education. It's weighted heavily for promotion purposes. All in house EMT-medic upgrades are given at NOVA CC, which is a degree program. Qualified medics, as in medics that can successfully complete the lengthy hiring process, complete the fire academy, and the ALS internship are in short supply. If there was this supposed medic surplus nationwide, then the dept might require degrees. Tall order though, since the vast majority of medics were eduated at the cert level.

I never said not to go to college. I said that if you have no aspirations past being a field paramedic, college isn't necessary. And if you do go to college, go to a community college rather than a private university if it won't affect job placement. Same thing for FF's who prefer not to promote. Now, consider someone who goes to school for three years, vs someone who goes for only one. This person invests 20k, 10 the first year, and 10 the second, at 10%, with no future investments. After 28 more years, they'll have 375k. In 38 years, they'll have $1,001600. Three years of investing 10k will grow to 1,450,000 after 40 years total. Now, investing 10k (rather than pursuing a four year degree) for 4 years at 10% will result in 51051. That will grow into $2,033,000 at the end of 40 years total. The two year college grad will have to save 51k in two years to catch up. We all know that someone who commands a higher salary is more than likely to increase their spending to match that. The blue collar worker can actually end up with more than a white collar professional in retirement if they know what they're doing. I'm not saying not to go to college, only that one should be mindful of the opportunity cost of doing so. Unless you're in a pension program. A 150k annual pension (we will surely have more when I decide to retire) is equal to 3,000,000 in a bond fund (or whatever) giving off 5% annually as income. Someone who is able to save 10k/yr pre tax including a 4-6% company match for just 10 years are already there and then some. It's not so much how much you invest, but for how long. Now imagine having both a pension AND 2 mil or so in deferred comp. That's one reason why I'm so in favor of pensions.Doctors are really behind the 8 ball nowadays. People need to be mindful of how much they need in retirement. Too bad medic-RN bridges leave much to be desired. It would have been a great way to have your cake and eat it too.

I acknowledged that having the degree will benefit for career advancement/career change. Although having a degree is desireable, it's not required as a condition of employment, and many places don't really care either way. Employers will likely choose a prospective employee from a tech school with several years of related experience over someone with a degree who has no experience as minimum staffing on an ambulance. Getting the medic cert through a tech program would be all that's required if the individual has no further career aspirations. In that situation, it's more financially beneficial to start work as quickly as possible. You're saving only 9k by going the CCC route. Well, not really, since you're giving up a year's worth of salary, plus contributions to a 401k, with employer match. If you invested 10,000 as a lump sum (one year's pre tax contributions with employer match) into a defined contribution plan, gaining on average 10% annually over a 30 year period, you would have approx. $198000. This also applies to 529's, for all you parents out there. Get started now! College isn't cheap. http://www.moneychim..._calculator.htm You would have this much in 40 years: $537,000. If you want to go less aggressive with maybe a balanced fund at 8%, you'll have about $109000. After 40 years, $242,000. Consider further that the account will continue to grow post retirement, as one still needs some exposure to equities to allow the retirement account to at least keep pace with inflation.

Damn, you beat me to it. As such, they're not affiliated with the IAFF. Nice try, RAV http://www.wallkillfire.org/index2.htm They're 100% volunteer, and so is their EMS. If my district's coverage relied 100% on volunteeres, who may or may not be available to put units in service, I'd look for ways to keep what units I do have inservice.

From a long term standpoint one needs to look at opportunity cost. Do you want to lock up 2-3 years of your life pursuing a paramedic degree? Or would you rather get A&P and pharm and go to a good tech school (not a 3-5 month medic mill, please) and be able to pay into your retirement and have an income stream that much sooner. For investing in your retirement or otherwise, the time frame of the investment is more important than the amount invested, mainly due to compound interest. A good example of this would be comparing a one time investment of 10k (or whatever) over 30 years, or the same amount divided biweekly over 30 years a-la dollar cost averaging (or value averaging, if you know what you're doing). A degree or tech cert program will both result in the same qualifications for employment. A good tech program will prepare you just as well for the field as a degree program. Stonybrook University in Suffolk Co. NY would be one such example. The thing is, there are so few quality tech programs around. It seems unlikely at the moment that all medics will be required, at some point, to attain a degree to remain employed. I can see the U.S. going to paramedic as an entry level position, though. A degree would be more beneficial for career development or to transfer credits to another healthcare related degree. Speaking of that, I would highly recommend staying at EMT, and knocking out an RRt, ASN/BSN, or PA degree early on, before you become entrenched (read: trapped) in your medic career. These degrees require a signifcant time investment. These programs generally run full time, which is not conducive to working a full time career. These healthcare degrees are not like others, where you can chip away at it a class or two at a time depending on your availability. I'm facing that problem currently, as I may go for a degree in EMS admin or emergency management prior to ASN or RRT for career development purposes. It's not beneficial for me to take a leave of absence to complete a degree that requires FT attendance, when my current salary trumps that of the degree of which I desire. If you work for an EMS agency that has set shifts, you can schedule school around your work schedule. That's how I went to medic school. Truth be told, if I had never landed my current job, I would have knocked out an ASN at either Hunter College or Nassau CC in NY by now, working at my old employer, who were very pro-education in regards to scheduling. Also worth mentioning is that you don't need to spend a fortune in education. Work experience generally trumps your alma-mater. Go to the cheapest accreditied school that you possibly can provided you're sure that you can get a foot in the door somewhere, to gain that experience. This is another example of opportunity cost. You could be paying off loans at an expensive university, or you can make a clean break and start investing.