Jamie Hersey

As you said, this record is getting old. Indeed it is. Perhaps, I thought you would be interested in a counter view; however, I do not believe that is the case. That is fine, of course. Also, questioning if I am knowledgeable enough to voice such an opinion is fine also, but somehow I suspect the line between deciding if I am an informed speaker, and attacking the messenger is getting somewhat blurred here. Perhaps, if you tell me a bit more about yourself, background, and where you have worked we could find some common ground to relate to despite the differences in our point of view? My mailbox is always open. I offer this to you, just as I offered it to Emtannie. Now, as for being out of touch with Alberta EMS, and Canadian EMS in general, I don’t think much as changes since last Friday. If it has please let me know. I see that you have just completed your OFA III to work in BC. Good luck with your job prospects. That was genuine, as if I was a wanker, I could moan on about how you are taking work in BC, but not contributing to the Province as a whole. After all BC has to pay for the Olympics somehow! Of course, you know that is all in jest, as I am all for people working wherever they want, be it nationally, or internationally. Hey, I would love to meet up and chitchat with you on the AGM on the 10th of May, but I am going to miss it this year due to work obligations. I would have loved to be there because I know who I would like to see win. Want to carry my proxy?

Emtannie, To answer your question I did work in Alberta. I started my EMS career there back in 1998, but I have moved on. Currently, I mostly do contract work which keeps me moving around. Currently I seem to prefer warm and sunny locations with the army. Also, the majority of my work is at the critical care level. I like the varied nature of the work, and having a bit more time with my patients, but I still do moonlight in ground-EMS. So I guess that puts my time in at about 12 years. Perhaps working a variety of places give me a different view on what EMS is, or what it could be. I have worked with US medic, UK medics, and practitioners from a few places in between. To me I see them as colleagues, thus any move to make providers from wherever work wherever they want is a good move in my books. It opens doors for everyone. Now, I didn't find an Emtannie on the ACoP website either If you want any more info feel free to PM me, and we can talk on this further if you wish. I am not trying to downplay the changes that are going on in Alberta, or ACoP new role, or the AIT, and all that. I just hope it has a positive outcome. Where do you work right now? Who knows, perhaps we might have worked in the same town at one point or another, or know mutual friends in the industry.

If you are asking me if you should live in Alberta and work elsewhere, my answer is yes. It is a free country so do what you want. I suspect that people might be doing that very thing right now. If you need any contact information to help with job prospects let me know. As for the labour minister's response, could you share it with the group? I would be surprised to find a willingness to discuss barriers, such as 'provincial' residency status especially when you consider the AIT is aimed at knocking down barriers. Also, as you know finding quality staff can be a difficult prospect and manpower (staff) is needed to drive economic growth. What a US NREMT-P going to BC, getting registered, then coming to Alberta to work… after failing the exam 3 times? Hmm, I think I picked up on your subtle undertones there. What you are saying is that somehow this individual is not qualified hence the backdoor comment. Let's break this down shall we? First, if the person is legally able to work in Canada then where they came from is not an issue. Secondly, you are confusing professional practice with a career again. Simply put, if EMALB says this individual can work as a medic, and ACoP says they can work as a medic, well then they can work as a medic. A professional association dictates professional practice not an individual's career choices. If they don't want to work in a public system, or they just want to work in the oilpatch so be it. It is their choice to do so. Even if you don't agree with it. How they get taxed and where that money goes is a question of tax law, not professional practice. As for the question at the end, is this the professionalism I am referring to, my answer would be yes. Look at it this way, how 'professional' would a paramedic association look if they excluded people based on non-clinical/training related issues? You can't start a paragraph talking about the highest common denominator, then end with saying that there are no artificial barriers. What is it? Personally, I am happy that a paramedic-based association is working on this. The discussion of why ACoP was chosen aside, would you rather it be a non-paramedic based association addressing this issue? After all if we (paramedics) can't get this right, then who can? How about a nursing association, or how about (insert profession here)? See my point? A paramedic association needs to be directed by paramedics. What level of care or training shall we train those paramedics at? How exactly would this economic grant favor non-citizens exactly? I don't follow your logic. Canada supports the rest of the world? Really? When did this become a discussion regarding us green cards, or Canadian residency? Here is a question for you: why do you think governments hand out green cards, and have immigration? Growth is the answer. When a population grows, so does the economy. People work, make money, spend that money, and demand services. I know I promised to not dive into economics but next time you are in a town with declining growth (decreased population) take a look around. What do you see? Next take a look at a boomtown (increased population). What do you see? This also applies to countries. Where do you want to live? Delinquent? I pay my taxes every year! J Sorry, I always thought my federal income tax, well, went to the federal government… If it doesn't go there where does it go then? Oh no, here comes the Alberta advantage/rest of Canada is ripping us off discussion. If you want to talk economics, Ontario pays the most into the federal system and until last year they didn't receive a single transfer payment. I could go on here; however, I don't want to turn this thread into a flame war on taxes, and transfer payments. Perhaps I might already have. Regardless of who pays into the system, stability is the key. A country with solid banking laws, strong government, and all that is a place I want to live, and a place that people want to invest in. Someone has to pay the bill, but then you can't turn around and beat up the system that provides that very stability. If you disagree I have some stock in a nice Liberian mining company for sale!

Government reorganizing B.C. Ambulance Service The B.C. government is reorganizing the B.C. Ambulance Service, Health Minister Kevin Falcon announced Thursday, saying the move will help address some of the issues that led to last year's paramedics' strike. By Vancouver Sun The B.C. government is reorganizing the B.C. Ambulance Service, Health Minister Kevin Falcon announced Thursday, saying the move will help address some of the issues that led to last year's paramedics' strike. But the paramedics say it could be used to attack their union. The government is removing oversight of the ambulance service from the independent Emergency Health Services Commission and handing it to the Provincial Health Services Authority, which looks after province-wide programs such as B.C. Children's Hospital and cardiac care throughout B.C. "What we are doing is more closely integrating [the ambulance service] with the health system," Falcon said. He said the transfer will mean more flexibility, which could be used to help rural paramedics who don't have enough work to make a living wage, and part-time workers who want more shifts. For example, he said, paramedics could be put to work in emergency rooms or health centres. The health ministry is also consolidating administrative services in other areas to eliminate duplication and cut costs. Moving the ambulance service into the PHSA could translate into an ability to find even more savings. Last year's strike by paramedics, which followed bitter contract negotiations, ended with the government legislating paramedics back to work. A spokesman for Canadian Union of Public Employees Local 873, which represents the province's 3,500 paramedics and dispatchers, criticized Thursday's announcement. "This is nothing short of retribution by a vindictive health minister," B.J. Chute said. Chute said he thinks the move could lead to privatization of some services now provided by the ambulance service and too dismantling of the service's bargaining unit.

"Nonsense its not that simplistic and you did not answer the question in the first place,people in Canada are free to move anywhere they want too ... working to specific standards and qualifying is the real question !" Yes, it is that simplistic, and I do believe I answered the question, but just for clarification here it is again: If you can work in Canada, then you have the right to work wherever you want, in whatever setting you want. If that ability to work is based on a national standard even better. Right now we are just on the cusp of realizing this vision. The AIT is the first step in this. After all, how can we be considered a profession if we cannot define what that is beyond demographic boundaries? The next step beyond that, and perhaps it should be left to a future discussion, is getting EMS integrated with the healthcare system. Patient care is not just one episode. I see alignment with the healthcare system as key to this. Alignment with health authorities will aid in this, but let's stay with the issues at hand, and the discussion here before introducing this. "The AIT agreement was a legislated and signed document by the provinces to decrease trade barriers, best read the entire document first and foremost please. This is not clearly a one way street the destination being the very lucrative Oil-Patch industry in Northern BC and Alberta. So tell me it is't so and I have 30 'medics' and names doing just that, this very minute. Those that have actually gone through the process of reciprocity and we are richer for this in some ways, but damn near none are working on the Streets of Alberta PERIOD! but yet again your duped into believing there is not already avenues open ... say like taking a program in that province ?" Thank you for making my point again. I am familiar with the document. Yes, that is the exact purpose to the AIT, and if people are doing just that, then fine. They are members of our profession and they can work wherever they want doing whatever they want. That is the very purpose of the AIT. People in a profession can work in a variety of setting - it is their choice - and as professionals it is not our place to judge some else's practice. As for your comment at the end. I am not sure if I follow. Could you please clarify? If I remember correctly you seem upset at the prospect of foreign trained MDs getting re-trained as paramedics citing the cost to tax payers, but here you seem to be suggesting that if an individual wants to work in a province they are to train and only work in that province? That seems wasteful doesn't it? "Are we talking whats best for the profession of Paramedicine or a market place, Health Care in Canada is NOT a marketplace we as Canadians are recognized because of high standards in Health Care it is part and parcel of our world wide identity." "Better yet drop the market crap (is getting saturated already) and the gist of my post is assuring standards, not drop them to suit a market place. I am fighting for improving standards(as this is what it will amount too) and believe it or not this IS the real agenda." <BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"><BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"> Ok, so let me get this straight: you are arguing that healthcare is not a marketplace, yet you counter that the market is saturated. To me it sounds like you are worried that the supply is up without a commensurate increase in demand. If I may speculate, and read between the lines, you are saying that because of this you are worried that income will drop. No wait, I forgot economics doesn't apply to healthcare... For the record I was talking about the economics of healthcare - someone has to pay for it do they not? As for fighting to improve standards wouldn't a national standard do that? "but yet again your duped into believing there is not already avenues open ... say like taking a program in that province ?" "..I am fighting for improving standards(as this is what it will amount too) and believe it or not this IS the real agenda..." To me it still sounds like you are saying let's elevate things unless it impacts on me. Correct me if I am wrong. "Here is why it matters, the most its the present taxation laws, so buddy from wherever commutes and when he files his taxes (in his/her province of residence) the income tax earned then goes into THAT provinces coffer's even though the income is not earned there. But herein lies the problem, that individual is using the infrastructure of hospital, the roads and the like, not contributing to the very province that is providing employment. Its not a matter who or where they are from ... but the tax money goes someplace else --> hence the reason why with the massive amount of transient workers (in this example) Alberta has lost out and now has become a have not province." No, that is incorrect. Income tax goes to the federal government, then they use something called transfer payments to send the money back to the provinces. To be specific to healthcare this is regulated by the Hearth Care Act which provides all provinces with money to run their healthcare system. The province can also charge residents additional fees if they wish. As for out of province residents who visit a hospital they get a bill sent to their provincial healthcare authority. Federal employees have their own plan (DND & RCMP for example). The territories are handled directly by the federal government. So typically everything is covered except ambulance trips to the hospital, sometimes inter-facility and air ambulance is covered, but for most it is not. As for provincial taxation of income, you are correct that does go back to the host province. Sales tax goes to the province. GST to the feds. But enough on tax regulations. I see your point though. Who likes a boom town? I think living in a dying town because the pulp mill closed would be much better, or perhaps a east cost fishing village. That's right look at that nice stable tax base. None of that mad money boom town crap... "With an economic melt down, your wrong people are voting with their pocketbook's the vast majority do not want to leave their home and family (thats human nature in fact)its quite sad in fact, that many believing the propaganda that the grass is greener or move to a land of milk and honey to find out that the grass is NOT greener and the honey is all gone. Then to go home with even more empty pocketbooks." "Under siege to the point where many AB new Grads are looking to relocate to areas of less bull shit and more far more security ... oh be very careful the rest of Canada as AB medics may be looking to take others jobs away too ... just saying Alberta punches out with the private schools far more grads a year than any other province. Now add in the non CMA approved Bresdin Institute curiously funded by the very same Government ministry that is funding a Reciprocity Agreement ... How many times do I have to say this ... there's something damn phishy here !" How can that be? Don't you know 30 medic who came to work in the patch? Ok, I get it now, it is just those poor hold outs suffering on the homestead. You missed my point about the grass being greener. What I was saying is if you 'field' is big then overgrazing is not an issue. Does that analogy work? Small fields - or individual provinces - are subject to variability and the potential for sudden change (microeconomics - as proven by your worries regarding all these medics 'flooding' the market) vs. a large 'field' being a country (Canada) can promote stability (macroeconomics) by responding to gradual trends. "To be so naive to believe that there is no protection in place in any industry is absurdity try getting reciprocity as an ACP in BC and THEN get hired .... Bhwaa haa ha your kidding right ?" Oh good, then we agree protectionism is an issue. Can we also agree it is bad even if it is not in your favor? By the way, BCAS is hiring ACPs from outside BC. I know of four. Considering how small ALS is in BC that is a significant number. "I AM advocating that this reciprocity deal is extremely complex and should not be fast tracked it is a very poor idea to try to do a quick fix, especially when the entire profession is at stake GO SLOWLY. Just what is the rush really ? Other than watch the governments cave into multinational corporate whims this intuitive is NOT about advancing our profession in the slightest, what amazes me is you can not see this." Multinational corporate whims. Really? Don't worry healthcare is not a business. Ok, ok I couldn't resist that one. No, what is at stake is the status quos. Getting EMS to one standard is not some epic all we need to do is take the first step. EMS work is, for the most part, homogenous is it not? An ambulance is set to Hastings & Main, and the patient is taken to SPH; An ambulance is set to Portland St., and a patient is taken to the Dartmouth General; or an ambulance is sent to Whyte Ave & 106st in Edmonton, and the patient is taken to UofA. What is vastly different about those calls, and if so, where lays in the complexity? "RN reciprocity ... again best look again Health Standards are different in every province your not informed at all." Yes, it is that easy. Perhaps I could get my friend to answer that one... Hmmm, where is she now? Was it the Yukon? Nope she gave up their job and moved to Vancouver. No, that was two years ago, and now she is in Calgary, via Australia and NZ. Imagine not just being able to move between provincial boundaries, but international ones also? "Or the next bunch of Grad EMT, so just how does this example equate somehow to national standards this is part of the "turd" way that AHS is perpetuating. This is the reality in AB presently this is where one gets a start (do I like it NO) but just how reciprocity will assist to solve this problem beyond me. " Yep, you got me on that one. The AIT can't get new medics experience. Perhaps work experience and mentorship could help? Just an idea. "...have you ever heard of DIPROM the University of Edinburgh the Diploma of Remote and Offshore Medicine ? This is specialized field and I know ACoP nor any present regulatory body has no idea nor in fact have any standards or been even considered, tell me I am wrong please as this area of Paramedicine we are so so far behind in Canada." It is a great program. Are you going for the full diploma or just the certificate? What did you pick as your electives? Great, extended education is something a profession needs, but let's try to sort out the basics first shall we.

Tniuqs, No, I am not living in Saskatchewan, rater I am keeping a close eye on what is happening in Alberta. I get the feeling that somehow you feel that progression is a bad thing; The sky is falling. I also feel that regardless of how this plays out - good or bad - you view towards management, government, foreign trained doctors, ACoP, or whoever comes along will be the same. What I press to you is to see the bigger picture. EMS needs to progress does it not? How does this happen? I will give you a hint: You get a national voice, and you support your members. Instead of worrying about all those 'FT MDs' steeling all the jobs, or someone from a Province over, heaven forbid, moving here. You are fighting over what exactly? To keep EMS in Alberta as is? Or to keep people out? "So I pose a question just how will reciprocity improve Paramedic Standards or Level Care to taxpayers ?" Simple. People can move where they want and seek work that they want. People will vote with their feet. If you don't like where you are, well then move to someplace else. Take a look at nursing for example. An individual can work across Canada, the US, or abroad, yet you still see RNs working in small towns, or wherever. Did the law of supply and demand suddenly pop up and mess things up? No, now employers have to offer and compete for employees. Call it economics 101. If I get the gist of your posting what you are advocating for is security and barriers. What you are actually getting is a monopoly or creating a small market - the EMS employees of Alberta - within a larger market (Canada). I hope you see my point. An open market gives the freedom to the individual and the closed market doesn't. My previous example of the northern ambulance service demonstrates this perfectly. Why changes as next month there will be a new batch of EMTs with nowhere else to go. Who has the power in that situation, and how would perpetuating such a system improve EMS? That is what I am after here. If medics are quitting in droves, like you say, then we will soon find out as then employers will have to make additional offers to 'attract' employees. See my point? If they can't seek employment elsewhere then what?

After reading the eight pages in this thread I realize that there will be no solution if one stays mired within the conflict of change. I detect a common thread throughout this discussion, namely things need to be fixed; however, any solution posed is met with skepticism. If it isn't the government, then it is big business, or some other profession trying to steal our work, or it is those dam fire fighters again. Or it is ACoP. Now, what people are missing here is that the current model doesn't work. I started my career in Alberta so I know this. I know what a for profit EMS systems in Alberta look like. I started in a BLS unit that didn't have an AED as Alberta Health did not mandate it. It was EMR/EMT crew with a senior employee being someone with 2 months on the job. The service sucked, the equipment sucked, and the training level was low. The patients were the ones that paid for this. I remember sitting the ambulance station - a trailer on the reservation - watching the fax machine spit out a dozen plus resumes of EMR and EMTs who just graduated thinking to myself that here comes the next wave of fodder for the system. I was suppose to call some of those people to set up interviews but I never did as Telus cut the phones for non-payment. My partner didn't seem to mind as he was too busy getting drunk. That was my introduction to Alberta EMS. This wasn't that long ago. In my opinion anything is better that that. I say let ACoP set the national guidelines, and let the health authorities take over. Yes, things have changed in Alberta - just a bit, but not enough - so I welcome all of this. Perhaps, this will mark a change for Alberta EMS and help the profession develop as a profession. A higher level of representation will allow this to happen. I put forward that, once the dust settles, the new Alberta system will be better and stronger than what we have now.

I also question why ACoP was chosen over PAC. Time will tell if they can get it right. From my point of view, if in the end, they do manage to set a national standard I will be happy. I still remember the days when it was easier to work abroad then, say, move between Alberta and BC for example. To qualify that I should point out that time the standards of training varied wildly across Canada. The only other comment I have to make - and I will direct this at nobody in particular - is as a profession we should support our members who meet the standard to practice regardless of what setting they work in, or where they came from. To me it seems a bit narrow minded to say stuff like I support paramedics, unless they work for fire departments, or are foreign trained doctors, and so on. If I said women shouldn't be paramedics, or a certain ethnic background then people would be up in arms, yet if I make broad generalized statement that seems to pass as fair game. To me the latter is just as unacceptable as the former. If someone is trained as a paramedic, and is working as one, then by definition they are a member of our profession. They are just working in a different setting. After all we can't pick on one individual, just because we disagree with how they wish to practice, yet turn around and embrace other areas (hospital based medics & community medics, for example). Cheers

Tniuqs, Is this the Mclean's article you are talking about: http://www2.macleans...ed-by-the-bell/ Just so I know we are on the same page before I comment. Until then I have a few other questions. First, I am not sure I follow your argument about us (Canada) have a clear definition of what a paramedic is. Do you mean from an educational, scope of practice, and training point of view? If so I disagree, as after all the main discussion of this forum how we should decide on that very definition. Now, if you mean that definition is that paramedics in Canada only work for EMS and should be the sole providers, then again, I would have to disagree as certainly many municipalities deliver EMS under a combined fire/EMS system. Winnipeg, as you mentioned is one, Red Deer, and Lightbridge also come to mind. We also have paramedic who work in the hospital setting. Please clarify. Now onto the IAFF agenda. Their role, by definition should be to promote firefighting as a whole, is it not? What other agenda would they support? Yes, I will concede that fire's role is changing and with it they will be looking for new business, so to speak. It is a free country, and by all means there is no reason why they shouldn't proceed. Even if this means hurt feelings. Isn't EMS doing the same thing? Heck, we are not beating PAC up for advocating for the role of EMS are we? Wouldn't a congruent thought be how EMS is looking for new roles? Community paramedics, hospital based paramedics, injury prevention, and so on? What's the difference?

Perhaps we might need fire as I don't think the xray machine needed to confirm placement would fit in the ambulance! A firetruck would have tons of extra room

Lifeguard, I am not sure if you were asking me if I worked for the JI. If so, the answer is no. As for the previous poster I think he was being a bit sarcastic in saying go get your money back. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I think his 'external' argument is a valid argument to be used. I am sure that has occurred to them. As for the safety in numbers who knows if that will help you? I don't know. Also, there are all kinds of other large groups in limbo. All the army medics not getting deployed right now come to mind. All I am saying is this: you might get your money back but you won't get your PCP. If you want your PCP then you are putting a lot on the line. If you say no to the JI, then where are you going to go? In Vancouver there is Decland, right? I think there is one program up Island, but regardless, you will still have to re-take the PCP, and wait. That is not going to get you out the door any faster. Heck, all it will do is put you behind all the students now as you clinical will still be with BCAS. If you worry is being rusty, perhaps a better course of action would be to ask the JI for a refresher weekend or something like that. They might be more receptive to that then, say, a law suit. Just speculating is all. Sure, be angry, and you sound pissed off. I would be also, but take a second, cool down then proceed.

Dear Lifeguard, I think you have to consider the time, effort, and cost of starting over. Wait it out, do your ambulance clinical then be done with it. Also, I don't think the JI would be willing to give you a refund. I am not speaking on their behalf, just speculating a bit. Heck, I think we all have been angry at points in our lives and just the idea of saying 'screw you guys' and walking away somehow make everything seem better. Just walk out the door and move on; I don't need those jerks. Hey, I did that very thing, but you have to consider the after. What next? Do you have another PCP course in mind? How long is it? Can you get in? Would you have to move? Can you handle the delay? If you are just starting out, and I suspect you are, then perhaps the answer to those questions would be a no. For me the decision was simple to make, and the after was easy to take as I am established in my career. Good luck, and I am sure you will be doing your amb time before you know it.

I think there is a valid argument for both sides. I say if you have the time and the money just do both. That way, when you are looking for that flight job you can put on whatever 'hat' they want you to wear. FN job, hey I am a RN; No, ok then here is my medic cert. Getting them done at the same time will get it out of the way. Doing your EMS training later might be painful otherwise. Picture sitting in medic school, years later, spending the afternoon learning how to turn on a LP12, getting protocols beat into you head. That is painful. Having both will allow you to apply for any job that comes along. Also, as many have pointed out, working as a nurse in a critical care setting will develop those skills. This can be difficult to match as a medic. I am not saying impossible, but places where you can develop those skills tend to be the exception vs. the rule.