JayEMTP

For inhouse diagnostic quality, hospitals and clinics will usually spend extra on a separate machine with advanced filtering and sensitivities which can have multiple uses such as linking to their stress testing or treadmill equipment and utilize a wireless connection for easy uploading to their database. A physcian can then immediately view the ECG on a computer screen with a more sophisticated imaging software. It can then be stored as well as sent to an awaiting cath lab or referral center. No need to spend an extra $10k each on a dozen portable monitors used on crash carts or inhouse transports. Those who take diagnostics seriously inhouse may view portable ECGs as a lesser quality product but understand their value in field or some out of hospital transport situations.

My firewall just caught you in my email account. I guess we now know how easy it is to have email hacked by someone who has the personal data and access to areas he probably shouldn't have. But thanks. Now I've got your electronic prints.

The United States' Associates degrees for EMS were better in the 1970s since they used the same Anatomy and Physiology, pharmacology and pathophysiology classes as the RNs. Paramedics also did more invasive skills routinely in the 1970s than they do today on regular ground EMS although that is largely due to evidenced based medicine and necessity. There were pericardiocentesis, intracardiac epi, chest tubes and central line placement such as subclavians in use. Now the degrees have been watered down with survey courses for Anatomy & Physiology and pharmacology. Protocols have been streamlined to meet the lowest denomonator of whatever patch which isn't flattering. If you want examples just read the headline makers on the front page of this forum now. Even the old mainstay of ETI is taking the back seat to alternative airways. Many of the new grad Paramedics on another forum noted they have yet to intubate a human. The cardiac monitors way back when also required the Paramedics to know the rhythm rather than having the machine tell them. I linked to the full programs including NP with the necessary prerequisites and not just a selective link once those have been acquired.

Welcome to the computer age. Many classes can be taken online at undergrad and graduate level. Even the EMT and Paramedic courses are now online. Of course the practical/clinical part is generally in person. You fail to count the undergraduate and graduate courses required in the sciences. Even the ADN requires more than 11 units in the sciences. Why don't you just post the complete link to Duke's nursing programs? I'll just do that for you since you may have obtained the other link by a random search and not through the nursing program site. http://nursing.duke.edu/ Pathways to DNP at Duke: http://nursing.duke.edu/modules/son_academic/index.php?id=110 How many NPs have you actually met? Are you also trying to be like your fellow forum member here with her examples of all the NPs she knows and all seem not to be worthy to be called much of anything least of all nurses? And this is not my quote: And now for the emotional name calling (credit to Eydawn) which is probably associated with one of the "generalizations" I made earlier and someone had to prove it to be true once again. It also seems that when someone talks about education and nurses they get labeled as a troll. What troll would spend (probably waste) as much time as I have to enlighten you about NPs and the history of EMS? If being an advocate for higher education and giving some more information about other medical professionals makes me a troll in the eyes of EMS providers then I guess little will ever change.

You brought up your own ludicrous examples of nutty NPs and LPNs writing prescriptions. You still have no understanding of what a Nurse Practitioner is. You have no understanding of the differences of titles between a doctor as used for someone who has a doctorate, a DNP, a DPT, a Ph.D. and a Medical Doctor as it pertains to scope of practice. If you dislike the Nurse Practitioner as a Physician Extender, why would you even consider entering in the profession? You seem to only have negative examples (all 2 of them) of anyone with higher education like a DNP. Again, you would not be doing nurses or NPs any favor if you just want to drag them down because you are against them holding a doctorate degree just based on a couple of NPs that you think "want to be doctors". You also try to justify your thoughts and sticking up for each other since high school? Haven't you progressed at all past that to have your own thoughts without seeking approval from a high school bud or being afraid you might offend someone on this forum if your present an original thought? I don't know paramedicmike but I do know the comments in your post and the one he made. Advanced education seems to strike a nerve with him. It is hard to tell if he was pro education or against it and your post definitely did not read of one who was a big education advocate. I will remind you again, very few people are going to search through thousands of posts to find that one you agreed with education. The search engines pull up the first page and that is what the public sees on an open forum. You are on an open public forum where your views are there for all to see. Anyone can log on and post comments. However, when someone does, you take offense if they are not in agreement with you and everyone should know exactly how you feel and who you have known since high school. Some then feel they need to rally the herd and chase off someone who might disagree or bring in a different thought such as education. Maybe you should have a closed forum so the public doesn't have to see the views on this forum. Some of the threads and the posts they contain are not very flattering for EMS. Have a nice life but do consider seeking another profession other than nursing and definitely not NP. You would have to obtain a doctorate degree and you wouldn't want that. You would then be one of those nutty NPs who have a DNP and we all know how stupid they are as you just pointed out with all of your examples.

Let's just concentrate on this since it is obvious that the NP is not appropriate for this forum. I also stated U.S. in my earlier comments. The NP being discussed was also in the U.S. I thought you knew this or had at least read it since I did state that and posted links to the AANP (American Academy of NPs) I am also not being argumentative but merely stating facts. You can check all the facts on the internet at fairly reliable sources such as the EMS Museum. Freedom House Paramedics were established in 1968 with advanced procedures. Do the math. That is more than 40 years ago. By 1969, Paramedics were working with advanced equipment doing advance procedures in Marietta, GA. The AAOS textbook came out in 1969 for EMTs. 1969 - Miami establishes its Paramedic program. The TV show "Emergency" came out in 1972. The show did not come out first and then the idea of a Paramedic. That was over 38 years ago. EMS degrees at the Associates level were established in the 1970s but it never evolved as a popular concept when the certificate was available and very easy to do for entry into EMS. The Paramedic is still a certificate today and the hours of training has not increased very much over the past 40 years in all but a couple of states. I also already mentioned that there are exceptions in those states. In 1970, the EMT-B was approximately 110 hours and it is still 110 hours in many states. If you consider posting facts to contradict your statements about EMS not being around 40 years ago as being argumentative then I guess I am. If you consider me correcting you that the U.S. does not require a Bachelors degree for entry as a Paramedic as being argumentative, then I guess I am. You asked if I read the posts on this forum and I stated some of the things I saw like Firemonkey comments which you took personally. So how can I even provide a reasonable argument to you without your emotional response to protect your perceived image on this forum? I am not about to read through thousands of posts to find a few that pertain to education. This thread appears now and the current posts are in the present. These will be what anyone will see who stumbles upon this forum by accident as I did a few weeks ago. If you want to bring in other threads to support the arguments here, then link to them. Right now I don't care what somebody posted 5 years ago and they may not even remember what the posted. I also saw where old threads are even discouraged from being brought back because they are no longer relevant.

I don't care how many posts this person has or how long they have been on this forum. Does that make this person an expert about being an NP? This person is an EMT-B who is thinking about becoming an NP but doesn't like what the profession is about because of the word doctor for someone who has obtained a doctorate degree. My response is offensive because it is different than what has been posted here. I didn't call anyone a Firemonkey. I didn't have anything bad to say about NPs and I didn't praise EMTs as the only important level in EMS. I have read through some of the threads on this forum and a few others. I am appalled by the number of people who will fight against any change in education for EMS. It seems there is more of a struggle to just get EMS providers to meet the minimal standards as they are now. Now for a little education to you about your own profession. Ambulance Drivers in the 70s started to obtain an EMT-B cert. Ambulance drivers in the 1940s also could obtain basic first aid certs for ambulance and many had been military ambulance drivers. Today, the EMT-B still exists as a basic first aid cert. The Paramedic was developed in the 1960s initially by 2 FDs on opposite coasts and a hospital ambulance service in Pittsburgh. To this date, only a couple of states want a two year degree for entry and there are even exceptions to that requirement. You need to back up your statement that the Bachelors is going to be made the minimal standard for EMS anywhere in the near future. Show me some legislation in the works. Show me some legislation that even the Associates is on some state's agenda for consideration as becoming the entry level mandate. The university in the city I am in does offer a Bachelors degree for EMS but they are very, very careful not to tell new students "it is required" to be a Paramedic. That would be a gross misrepresentation. They can tell the student it opens up more opportunities for them as a professional. You also fail to see that the doctorate will be an increase in minimal education for the NP. EMS providers still have the option to move to a state that has the least amount of hours of training to get their cert if a few more hours doesn't work for them. Other professions have dealt with the use of terms as it pertains to higher education and it is not that difficult. If you are working an an EMT-B and happen to have a Ph.D. in education, are you going to tell your patient you are a doctor? If you use your Ph.D. to work in research would it not be appropriate to use the doctorate title rather then "EMT"? If you are a nurse who also holds a doctorate degree, would it not be appropriate to be called by your correct title in a university setting by your students? But, if this nurse also works in the ED as an RN, do you not think the appropriate title would be used for that setting regardless of the education listed on the name badge? Many people list their higher education on their name badge but don't insist on everyone using the title of "doctor" to address them. The doctorate is a form of higher education. Accept it and don't fight higher education for other professions that you probably have no idea of what their title and job description actually includes. You are making assumptions about NPs that they just want to be called doctor to imply they are just like doctors. They know their scope of practice just like the reference earlier to the LPN writing a prescription. The LPN should know that is not within their scope of practice. Again don't make out all professions to be stupid. Granted, many Paramedics and even EMTs believe they are just like a doctor and will even say that when telling people what they do but that doesn't mean a whole profession should be crucified because of the "assumptions" made by a few on this EMS forum.

NPs are not raising their education standards just to be called doctor. NPs will be raising their entry education level to doctorate in 2015. This process started over 10 years ago and it will be 15 years by the time 2015 comes. This was not a concept just thought up yesterday. With the demands of health care and the pressure to show a profession is worthy of reimbursement, higher education is becoming a necessity. Medicine continues to evolve and that requires a commitment of those involved in health care to see their profession keeps pace with the changes or has the knowledge resources to seek out what they don't know. About NPs: http://www.aanp.org/AANPCMS2/AboutAANP/About+NPs.htm http://www.aanp.org/AANPCMS2 If it takes the NP profession over 15 years to achieve a doctorate for their entry level from a Masters, how long do you think it will take EMS to accept anything above a certificate for Paramedic in the U.S.? Right now the opposition against NPs advancing education comes from a few who feel threatened by a title and aren't seeing much past that. The NPs in the profession are not opposing the change because it is long past due for them to increase their level. However, in EMS opposition to change come from within the profession. This is a typical and expected response from an EMS forum. You can't see past what has always been said or done and that is the way EMS will always be. No sight for the future. Those who bash education and nurses will always be placed on a higher pedestal on these forums.

You obviously have not researched what a Nurse Practitioner is or have no understanding of higher education. My wife has been an NP for 15 years and also holds a Ph.D. to teach at the University. Her students may address her as "Doctor" because of her education. However, the students and my wife know the difference between M.D. and a Ph.D. for an educator or the doctorate given for achieving higher education. Obtaining higher education is nothing new for RNs or any health care profession, with the exception of EMS, especially for those who want to advance professional status and respect. The Doctorate degree is becoming the entry level for NPs like it or not. There is not another way to go higher than Masters but to obtain a doctorate right now. Many of the other health care professions now have Masters and Physical Therapy has a doctorate which is being recommended for entry. Physical Therapists also know the difference between MD and a doctorate of higher education in other professions. If you go to almost any major university hospital that does research, you will find nurses, Speech Therapists, Radiology Technologists, Dietitians, Respiratory Therapists, Occupational Therapists and Engineers holding advanced degrees like Masters and Doctorates. They don't believe they are Medical Doctors. Educators at the universities hold doctorate degrees and unless they are also MDs, they don't hold themselves out to be Medical Doctors. Other professions generally have a better understanding of higher education and advancing requirements. It is generally those with very little education that want people to think they know the most. These issues of insecurity amongst other providers always come up when any profession raises its education requirements because health care is a business and providers are competing for reimbursement and funding. There are turf wars that do go into play when it comes to making out a budget for a health care system at the managerial level. Education helps to level the playing field and give the different professions a bigger voice. Even when the RNs made a two year degree their entry level over 30 years ago, some MDs thought that was outrageous and that nurses were in no way a profession which deserved respect. EMS hasn't raised its education standards in over 40 years so there is little for those here to compare to understand the process, the gains and even a few losses that may go with increased responsibility or liability. For those in EMS who may have never been exposed to higher education can not even conceive having an Associates degree as the entry level education and believe that would make them even more like a doctor than they already are. Some may even avoid that much education (Associates) because it would be unnecessary to have that much education and be confused with a doctor especially since they can already do all the skills of a doctor with complete autonomy in the field. If you have this preconceived notion that NPs do not know the difference between an MD and their profession I suggest you do a little more research and shadow NPs in various work areas. I also suggest you find out what they do know and what purposes they do serve. Also, if you are not for the advancement of a profession by education, you might want to stick with EMS. Other professions understand that medicine is evolving and it takes a lot of education, ambition and innovative thinking for the future of health care to stay viable. With your piss poor opinion of NPs already, you would not be doing that profession any favors by going into it. Also, an LPN would not be able to write a prescription and should be able to explain that to anyone who asks. Not everyone in nursing or health care is a stupid as some in EMS want people to believe to distract from the inadequacies of the EMS profession. It is also fairly easy to see where JPINFV, whose label is EMT-B/Med Student, lands when it comes to respect for other professions, especially nursing, when or if he even finishes med school. He will have to learn how to interact with many different professionals with many different education levels. Going against a profession for obtaining a higher education level or advancing professional status is not one that has the best interests of patients in mind. An an EMT he probably has also argued against advancing to even the Paramedic level because that could erode the cause for EMTs and the creation of more Paragods. As for this topic, EMS does differentiate their female medics and usually divides them into two categories but I seriously doubt if you would like to hear either one. This started from the time the first female became a Paramedic and is still practiced today but not always to their face due to disciplinary actions that are now in place to squelch that type of behavior. While it may not be as prominent in EMS agencies that have a higher percentage of women, it may still be present. Those who believe they own a profession, just like the MDs who believe they own all higher education titles, will still complain and do the usual name calling to show their superiority.