Dustdevil

This sucks, Bro. I hate to see things going badly for you at the very beginning. Kinda throws a damper on your enthusiasm, I'm sure. I hope it's not as bad as others suggest, but having been in the business this long, I'm afraid they may be right. I've seen it happen more than a few times. Even to me. I've also seen those agencies beg you to come back at some point in the future, if that makes you feel any better, lol. I almost hate to even offer any advice here, because just about anything you do (or don't do) can turn out badly. Idiots aren't predictable, and it sounds like that is who you are working for. But you might consider that there is certainly a possibility that if management knew the whole story, they might be more inclined to find fault with your supervisor's handling of the situation, and making empty promises to you that they wouldn't have endorsed, than they are to want to lose a good employee. If it comes down to it, and for some bizarre reason you actually want to keep that job, then you might give that a shot. Good luck!

I really hope that you do! You're going to be a great asset to somebody. I wish I was going to be there to see it. Best of luck!

You are making an assumption at this point that you will understand the folly of once you become an experienced paramedic. You see, we're not forgetting where we came from. Having spent seven years as an EMT myself, I know exactly what they bring to the table. Having spent the remaining 29 years as a paramedic, I also know how mistaken I was about my worth as an EMT. I remember thinking what a wonderfully irreplaceable, lifesaving commodity I was to society and EMS. I remember thinking I actually knew something about medicine. I remember feeling under respected and underappreciated by some paramedic partners. Now I know why. You will too once you are a paramedic. I too believe I was an above average EMT. My education was advanced well beyond EMT school. I was constantly studying and learning, as well as attending college to learn more. I was reading 12 lead EKGs and carrying an ACLS card well before I even started paramedic school. But you know what? I was still just an EMT, and contributed no more to the overall picture than any other, because none of those things are what your partner needs from you. That is not what being an EMT is about. I have likely had more partners in the last thirty five years than any five other people at EMT City put together. There has not been one single EMT that I would choose over a competent paramedic. I don't want to do all the thinking. I don't want to do all the paperwork. And I don't want to take all the responsibility. If I'm having a bad day, I want a partner who can pick up my slack. I want somebody who can perform all of the interventions that I can perform, and to do them without me having to tell them to. Anybody who would rather have a driver/helper than a full partner is, well... there's something wrong with that person. That's just how it is. The bottom line is, until you are a paramedic, you simply do not know what you do not know. And right now, you don't know the enormous difference between the two, and how little an EMT brings to the table in an ALS system. Other than those system managers who love EMTs because they are cheaper, there are really two kinds of people who could disagree; those medics who like having somebody inferior around that they can dump on in order to pump themselves up, and those EMTs who want to ignore the obvious in order to pump themselves up. Either way, it's selfish. And when you are a paramedic, you'll change your tune, because then you'll be "disappointed" that employers would rather hire an EMT, and that the arsehole medics don't want to work with a rookie. Trust me, it's always something! You're a smart guy. I think that, deep inside, you really understand this. It's just not a fun thing to admit. But you don't have to take any of this as a depreciation of your personal worth. It isn't. Take it as a motivating reminder that there is always a next step to take. You are never "good enough" in medicine. You can't ever -- at any level -- rest on your laurels and think you have "made it." You have to keep moving. Moving up. You have a minimum of two years ahead of you right now before many would consider you to even be at the entry level for professional EMS. And after that, you still have an endles road of personal improvement ahead of you. The most experienced and educated guys on this forum are all still getting education today after over two decades in the field. And by education, we don't mean just repeating ACLS and PHTLS, and getting a few CEUs every couple years. None of us would ever claim to be "good enough" yet, so don't be surprised when we say that there are no EMTs that are good enough either. :wink:

Not in the least bit. I am the one stuck with all of the critical thinking, all of the paperwork, and all of the liability and responsibility. THOSE are the burdens of the job. THOSE are the things that we would like to share with a partner. The rest is just housekeeping chores that I am still forced to share with my EMT partner. And of course we work the same amount of hours. That's not even relevant. So how is my load lightened? I'm afraid I don't follow. Congrats on the baby, bro! Awesome avatar pic too! I sure wish you could have gotten the next two years of school out of the way before this though. Being a dad is a full-time job! Welcome to the City! :thumbright:

I have always preferred a medic partner, and always will. Otherwise, there is a power imbalance that results in an unequal workload, somebody feeling shat upon, and often somebody going on a power trip. If there were no EMTs to push around, there would be no paragods doing the pushing. EMTs also create fewer jobs for paramedics, resulting in less demand, which results in lower salaries. And, of course, it results in our profession being heavily populated by tourists who have no serious professional interest in helping us grow because they are just here for a thrill and plan to move on to something else. So... an EMT costs me more work. He gives me less assistance. He gives less to the patient. He holds back the profession as a whole. Yeah, it doesn't seem that surprising to me that intelligent medics who aren't on a power trip would prefer to not work with them. Given the choice, I think the patients would prefer the same. Isn't this about them? No, seriously... I can't think of any good reason to have an EMT on a 911 emergency ambulance when I could have a fellow paramedic as my partner instead. I don't want a helper. I want a partner. An EMT is not a partner. He is just a helper, no matter how good he is. I'm curious as to why this disappoints you? Are you afraid to make the move up? Sounds like you're looking for an excuse to stay an EMT instead of getting an education. After all, three years? Why aren't you a medic yet? Don't let anybody tell you that you need to wait any longer. It's time to bust a move! Either make a serious, long term commitment to the profession or move on. You're not getting any younger. Or better.

So... back to the topic at hand... Was there something inaccurate about the answers I gave you, which by the way, you did ask for? Again, if you know so much, why are you asking us for answers? What answers were you expecting? Were you expecting people here to agree that somebody with three weeks of night school ought to be making $100k a year for driving an ambulance? And were you really so stupid as to not figure that out until after you wasted the time and money in that class? Here's a news flash for you: you made a poor career choice without doing the slightest research into it, and now you get to live in poverty with the rest of us. Deal with it. I challenge you to find any paramedic with five or more years in the field to dispute any of the answers I gave you. In fact, once you've been around for five years, I challenge you to dispute them. In five years, you can just sit around and pout about how you should have listened to the answers we gave you here instead of pretending that, after a whole 120 hours of first aid training, you already knew everything. But realistically, I predict in five years you won't know anymore about EMS than you currently do. In fact, I bet you won't even be in EMS in five years. I'll still be here if you want to come back and apologise.

Yes. Yes, them too. Especially them. That is the epitome of unprofessionalism. Sure. But acting like a medical professional and actually being one are two entirely different things. Being a professional means you don't have to put on an act.

The fact that you fail to recognise that I DID answer speaks very poorly for your potential. I'm curious what "answer" you were expecting? If you already knew the answer, then why did you ask? If you did not already know the answer, then what makes you think my answer is inaccurate?

Yeah, that's way old school. Full orientation requires that the patient be aware of his current situation. If you know who you are, where you are, and what day it is, but don't know why you are laying naked in the street, surrounded by firemonkeys, then obviously there is a serious deficit in your orientation, no? The qualifications of any instructor who does not teach this to his/her students are to be doubted. I hope that's not all he found, because that isn't what is causing his fever. And, neither of those BGLs would normally have a profound effect on the kid's mentation. Something else is going on here. Did anybody find it?

Woohoo! Six whole months! All bow down to their awesomeness! I thought intubation was a no-no in L.A. County?

There it is. You just nailed the very crux of the problem. You are attempting to run a service staffed almost entirely by people who have only a minor, passing interest in EMS. Their priorities are elsewhere. This is nothing but a hobby for them. Making a professional organisation out of that is impossible. You never will be anything more.

Rule #1: To avoid looking really silly and/or clueless, always read the entire thread before posting in it. :wink:

1. Because most of the idiots you went to school with give it away for free. 2. Because your school gave you less training than a manager trainee at Taco Bell. 3. Because your school produces such an excess of EMTs every month that there is no demand for you. 4. Because you provide no service that results in significant revenue for an employer. 5. Because anybody who cannot spell salaries cannot seriously think they have earned one. Welcome to Economics 101, EMT City style.

Education is the point. Education is the foundation of everything you will do in your career. The sooner you have a foundation under you, the sooner you will have a profession. Without it, you're just an ambulance driver who may be seeing a lot of patients, but is not gaining the benefit from that exposure that you would if you had been presented an understanding of their conditions through education. Seeing patients and understanding patients are two completely different things. There is no other medical profession that encourages their aspirants to practise before education. There is no other medical profession that sucks. Coincidence? I think not. There are two things that are "scary" about it. First, that those eight months you listed are the only education they have. That is definitely scary. Fortunately, Big Mike already has four years on them. Second is that their lame arse employers would actually cut them loose on their own with just an ambulance driver as a partner. That's not their fault. That's the fault of a majorly flawed agency. And two extra years of driving an ambulance and making up cots isn't going to make one bit of difference on how well they practise medicine.

Safe for whom? And in what way? I don't follow. What are the qualifications for a crew chief and lead medical provider? Just another volunteer with more time on the squad? Doesn't sound that safe to me. So it's okay if everybody else is doing it? Ever think that possibly they are doing it because of the example being set by the school? Teach them in class, or teach them in the field? And again, who is teaching them, and what are their qualifications? I am picturing the blind leading the blind there. Are there any actual experienced and educated professional paramedic providers there to do any of this teaching and leadership?

Sounds like some lame arse attempt at ghetto CPAP. :? The good news is that, after you turn it up that high, you won't be able to hear any of the other stupid things this guy tells you to do.

Whoa there, slow down! Take another look at the exam results and vitals. What kind of "improvement" are you looking for anyhow? What are you trying to correct? How old is this guy? What is his medical history? And what sort of reactions has he experienced to ant bites in the past? These must be Volunteer Fire Ants. All the professional Fire Ants are in Texas.

I am sorry to hear that you are getting the runaround. Is it Temple College that you called? You're not the first I have heard saying they were less than responsive to inquiries. But then again, that seems to be the rule with paramedic schools, and not the exception. But Temple is a good school. And the man running the programme was one of my paramedic instructors 29 years ago. You'll be in good hands there. Good luck.

I don't think it is the least bit important for a classroom didactic instructor to have recent field experience. The scientific foundation of medicine is not something that is practised. It is factual and theoretical knowledge that is learned the same way it is taught, through current research. I have seen too many cases where working medics thought their "experience" was enough to make them qualified teachers, and it was not. War stories and personal anecdotes about watching amiodarone work will never take the place of a biochemical and physiological understanding of the pharmacology of amiodarone. All medics will eventually get that experience. But if they don't get that scientific education in school, they will probably never get it. And that is why EMS remains a stagnant shit hole. Similarly, it seems like a great many schools utilise their new grads, who think it would be cool to be an instructor, to teach and assist with skills instruction. If there is somebody that needs relevant, recent field experience -- and lots of it -- it is the skills instructor. Again, EMS seems to have its priorities all turned around.

Why are we even talking about lpm when it is such a completely irrelevant factor?

Absolutely. But what is "experience?" Experience is not just a word. It is a qualifiable and quantifiable factor. What is the quality and quantity of experience you are giving your students? How do you measure them? Sometimes, no experience is better than bad experience or short experience. Medicine is much like the martial arts; there is a period early on where you know just enough to get yourself into trouble. Low-time volunteer agencies promote this problem.

Why didn't you just delete the duplicate? You get 90 minutes to do so. :? Kyle, two words: SPELL CHECK.

From what I can tell, there is an excellent chance that you will not find a paramedic school to recognise your Intermediate training at all. It's just becoming rarer and rarer everyday to find a school that is set up for that disjointed continuum. Back in the 70's it was pretty common to progress from EMT to EMT-I to EMT-P, but not anymore. It's just not a good way to go, and the schools recognise that. Not to mention that it simply isn't cost effective to set up two completely different educational paths for the same ultimate goal. A school has to totally change the normal flow of educational objectives in order to accommodate Intermediate students, and then -- unless you were educated at that school for Intermediate -- they really have no way to validate what you already know. They can't just assume that you know the stuff you were supposed to have learned in I school, because then they are the ones that look stupid when you graduate their P programme with insufficient knowledge for competent practice. Consequently, unless you stay out in the really rural areas where volunteer whacker EMS is the norm, it's just hard to find the Intermediate level integrated into the paramedic educational process anymore. Then you're going to end up like all the other guys who come here whining about having to get "all that book learnin" over again when they already had it once. Of course, if it comes to that, take it like a man and just do it. None of us are so damn good that we can't use a review. Are you a volunteer, or is this your profession? If this is your profession, then just forget the Intermediate nonsense. It is counterproductive to good education. You will literally learn less and learn harder by going that route. Get into a college programme and knock a complete paramedic education out in a single sitting. Everything flows together so much more completely and naturally that way, and there is a palpable difference in the quality of medic that is turned out. Today, Intermediate is just a half-arse level for volunteers and hobbyists who don't have the time, money, or professional commitment to devote to being a quality medical provider. If that isn't you, then do yourself and the profession a favour and just skip it. Best of luck in whatever you do!

Oh, the Irony!

Any system that does not allow this sucks. Patients should not have to wait to get back to the ambulance to get relief. And medics should not have to walk back to their ambulance to get it.