Dustdevil

Wow. Sounds like a really dedicated bunch of professionals to me. Definitely the sort of wankers I want working on my mother or child. :? That's exactly the point. To up the ante. To price EMS out of the budget of wankers and make it a professional service of value and worth that people understand they have to pay for. I wish that were true. Unfortunately, the status quo has not wavered in over thirty years. That is why we are still having this debate. Okay, suddenly you are no longer talking about rural volunteers and first responders anymore. Now you're talking about EMS at large. First of all, less than half of those Bs are actually in EMS, so whatever they do or don't do is of no consequence to the profession. Those who downgrade to first responder will be out of a job. And if the job meant so little to them that they would do that, then good riddance. I am very happy to see them go. And again, that is the very point of elevating the profession. To get rid of those whose heart and soul isn't in the profession and create a professional atmosphere that will attract and retain people of intelligence and commitment to EMS. It ain't rocket surgery. You gotta break a few eggs to make fruit salad. :wink:

If you haven't noticed the pattern, this pretty well happens everytime you post one of your six-foot long cut-n-paste jobs (which are usually also copyright violations) into a thread. People decide it's too long and tedious to read and they abandon the thread. Actually, I thought you were doing it on purpose to kill threads you didn't care for.

Yes, because a billy is exactly what should be carried on a dark blue uniform with a big bright badge. Get paramedics out of that crap ASAP.

There was a group of scammers who put together an organization called, Government Acquisitions, Inc. back after 9/11. They originated this concept, and their proposed purpose was to facilitate the sponsorship process for police, fire, and EMS agencies. It was surrounded by much hoopla and fanfare as if they were the second coming. Debates raged on police message boards and listservers far and wide over whether they would allow advertisements on their patrol cars. News items appeared on television locally and nationally where police chiefs puffed up their chests and swore they would never sell out the integrity of their department to Whataburger, etc... This went on for about a year. Then it disappeared. The news disappeared. The debate disappeared. And yes, Government Acquisitions, Inc. disappeared. Not a single vehicle of any sort was ever delivered to any agency. Their founders went into hiding in the middle of the night. A lot of armed men who had been made big promises by those idiots -- and who had structured their entire budget around those promises -- were quite anxious to talk to them. One of their original press pieces can be found at: I think the concept has merit. Obscene amounts of money are thrown around this country in the name of advertising and promotion. It may well have been successfully achieved on a local level somewhere. Heck, I know cities around here whose entire fire departments were bought and paid for by a large corporation moving into the district. But I'm not sure these clowns have yet accomplished delivery of any vehicles in the last four years. You'd think they would brag about it on their site if they had, yet they don't. I'd sure like to see somebody with half a brain get the ball rolling though. Good luck!

Too many EMT's for my tastes. Bad uniforms too. What do they pay?

Unfortunately, "tactical medic" is rapidly becoming just another merit badge course that wankers take just to pad their resume, yet never actually use. Yes, there is a lot of market for tactical medics. But most of the guys who go take it have no actual desire to put themselves in harms way. So they take the course, call themselves tactical medics, and go about their 9-5 job on a transfer truck as if they are really special. Cy Creek knows this and is making major bank capitalizing upon the Walter Mitty syndrome that permeates EMS. Good for them! It beats bake sales!

Definitely valid points about many of the current crop not being up to the challenge of meeting the increased standards. But again, as others have addressed, market forces will compensate sufficiently, both increasing and improving the next generation of students and medics. Again, a critical shortage only occurs if you change standards precipitously. With a two year lead in, there is no danger of a shortage.

I have known many, many, many, many paramedics who were stuck on transfer cars because there simply were no 911 jobs to be had. Especially in places like Dallas County where FDs still rule. It is a very common phenomenon in this country. I agree, it really is semantics. And, as I have explained at length in previous threads addressing this topic, I am not actually talking about eliminating PEOPLE with a certain cert level. I am talking about eliminating that level of training. No more people trained to DOT EMT-B standards in EMS. Educate them to the I level from the very beginning without stopping at B. So again, I'm not talking about eliminating PEOPLE. Nobody is out of a job. I am just talking about educating everybody to a higher standard. Sure. Transfer cars still need to be staffed. Their service is critical to the success of EMS, because they take that load off of EMS. But nothing I have suggested would have any effect on transfer services.

Actually, no. This is not a sweeping overnight change. You give people notice of a transitional date by which their personnel must either be trained to the new standard or replaced with those who are. With that warning, you will have a lot of EMTs realizing that it's time to $hit or get off the pot, and making their move back to school. And you will also have plenty of current medics who are stuck on transfer cars who are more than ready to take those EMT's places if they don't make it through medic school. It's all part of the natural selection that will transform the professional ranks.

I used to part-time for a private service who had "Just Say No To Drugs" on the ambulances. Always thought that was a little ironic for an ALS unit.

Anthony is spot on regarding any shortage being short lived and self limiting. The development of the profession will change the demographics and career patterns in such a way to minimize and/or eliminate shortages. Yes, we are likely to still have a hard time keeping rural EMS well staffed just like we have problems keeping rural hospitals well staffed with nurses. But not nearly as profoundly as the nursing problem. And of course, another factor that will minimize shortages is the ultimate need to properly define EMS as Emergency Medical Services, and not apply the same entry level standards to horizontal taxi services. They can run their transfers with 120 hour EMTs for all eternity. I don't care. That way they won't have any shortages. Transfer costs won't increase. Wankers will still have jobs. EMS ambulance demand will drop. And EMS will maintain an adequate supply of acceptably educated medical professionals. Everybody wins. Whoever suggests eliminating I's is out of their minds. It's EMT-B's that need to be eliminated.

I'm actually with ya there, Asys. I firmly believe in the death penalty BUT... I frequently oppose it because of the potential for executing an innocent person. The potential in our system is too great. On the other hand, as I said before, some people need killin'. Tookie was one of them. And I wouldn't lose a moment's sleep over pulling the trigger. Personally, I would rather die quickly and peacefully than spend my life in a cage, guilty or not. You wouldn't find me appealing for decades, that's for sure. And I think anybody who feels otherwise is a psychopath.

Ehhh... I figure they've had at least a decade or two to work that farewell speech out and get it straight. They could memorize and flawlessly recite the old testament after that amount of time. So, I really don't think they are "forgetting" anybody at that point. Actually, that is exactly what they do.

Okay, Neb. I have a better idea of what you are saying now. You're not against studying, per se. It's just that you don't feel that the particular types of assignments you are receiving are optimally beneficial for you, right? I can understand that, and I empathize. I too tend to be a different style of learner than the majority seem to be. Obviously, you are going to have to tailor your own habits to work for you. But, unfortunately, others don't have the same dedication that you might, and they have to be given assignments in order for them to be counted on to learn. Even worse, a great many EMS instructors don't know dick about teaching. Therefore, they don't even know about all the options available to them, much less how to tailor them to serve the students better. Consequently, we end up with a real blind-leading-the-blind situation in EMS education. Sure, we could just leave students to sink or swim. Study if you want, then let the grades weed out those who don't. It would serve them right. But we have to think in terms of the big picture here and visualize the problems that would result from not trying to help our students with their study habits. First and foremost, pass rates would drop drastically. Secondary to that, your school gets a horrible reputation and a drop in applicants. Then your school has to drop its standards just to make money. And, of course, a local shortage of medics results too, which only puts more pressure on your school to crank them out. But anyhow, you raise a good point. If we are asking paramedics and paramedic students to be the best that they can be, shouldn't we ask the same of EMS instructors? Shouldn't we ask more of them than simply a certification and a week long instructor's course? Most of them don't even have an associates degree, much less any serious training in the educational process. As I have said frequently, education is the key to the progression of the profession. Unfortunately, education is arguably the component of our profession that is in the worst condition.

Needed for what? To pass the next test? Tests are to assure that you have grasped the minimal level of understanding necessary to move on. And of course, some people can do that much just through testing skills. So is that all you aspire to? The minimal level of knowledge necessary to make a 70 on your test? I'm sorry, but your question sounds very much like those who ask why they have to go to paramedic school just to start IV's, intubate, and give drugs. Like you're interested only in the maximum amount of skills in return for the minimum investment of time and effort. Here's how to gauge yourself: If you make 100 percent on every exam you take and never miss a question in class, then you are studying almost enough. If you do not approach that level of perfection, then you need to at least double your studying time because MY life may depend on it one day!

I agree. Even paramedic school is just a part-time night school in most places. The campus is empty except for the students. They're there three nights a week for maybe 4 hours, and most of them drove straight from work. In those cases, a serious dress code is more harassment than anything else. On the other hand, there are certainly common sense guidelines that could/should be implemented to maintain at least a casually professional atmosphere. As for the medical school comparison, you have to remember that our student base is very, very different. With very rare exception, medical students are responsible adults over 21 who have sowed their wild oats. Conversely, the majority of those in EMT school are teenaged wankers who are into challenging authority and expressing their individuality. Their number one goal in life is to be just like the guy on Turd Watch. Therefore, it is not really surprising that they need more guidelines than a medical student. If we are in the business of preparing these people for a life in a very structured professional world where they are expected to meet rigid standards, then are we not doing them a disservice by not running our programs in that model?

Of course, it is not just the student that has to be on board with this concept. If the school is run by wanker firemonkeys who think that combat boots, BDU pants, a navy blue t-shirt and a ballcap is a good image for a paramedic students, then professionalism is doomed from the start. :roll:

So many EMT's, including paramedic students, that I talk to see being a paramedic as simply a collection of technical skills. They almost completely discount the mental portion of paramedic practice in their minds. Show them how to intubate and all they can say is, "that's easy! Why can't EMTs do that?" That's why we see all these people here asking what 8 hour course they can take to learn to do paramedic skills without actually going to paramedic school. Personally, I think those people should be banned from EMS for displaying such a frightening lack of understanding of their own profession. There is no cure for that kind of stupidity. Ya know, after a week in L&D during nursing school, I was pretty confident that I could perform a c-section as good as any OB there. But I damn sure didn't think that I ought to be doing it! There is so much more to it than a few cuts and sutures. And the same thing applies to paramedic skills. So, my recommendation is that students get a firm understanding of the theory of medical education and medical practice from the very beginning so that they understand priorities and what is important. This will help eliminate a lot of the attitude that dooms people to failure from the very beginning.

Some people need killin'. :wink:

What's that got to do with shooting, hanging, or electrocuting them? Even the guys administering lethal injection aren't operating off of any real medical knowledge. Just following ABC instructions.

Money talks! :wink:

Not that I disagree with you, but this was NOT his first full arrest by a long shot. He presumably knows how to run a code already. Where the house is located is sort of irrelevant. And when you post a scenario here, you gotta be prepared for people to second guess you. Sometimes they're off the mark. But sometimes they will point out something that you overlooked. Either way, you learn and benefit from the experience and move on. Better than having your medical director point it out to you, isn't it? :wink:

I'd like to hear some opinions and observations regarding the benefits and drawbacks of Type I chassis versus Type III chassis. Something a little more substantial than "I like type I's best!' would be particularly helpful. In your experience, why would you choose one over the other. A few benefits to the Type III that I am already aware of are: * Smoother ride * Better turning radius * Better visibility for driver * Walk through/Talk through capability * More rugged * Easier engine access for service * More cab room * Easier to remount One thing I have noticed is that FD systems tend to prefer Type I's, while non-FD systems tend to prefer Type III's. I have not been able to conclude why that might be, although I suspect a lot of it is simple machismo. The same reason a lot of firemen drive diesel dually extended cab pickups for their own POV when the most substantial cargo they ever carry in it is a case of beer. :roll: Any other ideas or observations?

[sarcasm]Ooooh! Did you get informed consent for that search? You may have violated the patient's constitutional rights and committed battery too! [/sarcasm]

That's why it tends to stay on too long -- because people are mesmerized by the bouncing ball. Out of sight is out of mind.