EMT12

Ahhh seriously I thought you replying in my defense!! Otherwise I wouldn't have been so nice!! Sheeesh... I'd take the time to "highlight" and "bold" things for you, but truth be told, I'm just responding to Mike's (not me the other one's) remarks... Well I can appreciate trying to find out someone's credentials... There are other more 'civil' ways to do that though!! And yes Mike Is a knucklehead, But I can't say the actual name on post, wouldn't be too polite!! But I guess as the "New Guy" I wouldn't know much about that would I? (According to knucklehead over there!)

Sorry, it was easier for me to respond to your remarks and make sure I got them all with adding a "cheat".... I may have a good memory, but I can't remember every detail!! ;-)

I don't argue with the fact that additional medical courses and EMS classes are essential. I agree, if you don't know A&P, Medical Terminology, etc... Then you should'nt be responding. What I was trying to get at, was that with this world becoming more violent, EMS providers are now, more than ever, are walking into potential violent situations, with and/or without LEO's (in some rural areas, like in my area, that's a definite possibility) and having that extra awareness training, like I said I'm not talking about hand to hand combat, or fighting, but simply having the extra awareness training that Defensive Tactics and Martial Arts provide, could only benefit you. As I said above Scene Safety is #1. But a scene, even a 'safe' scene, can become an 'unsafe' scene just as fast... Learning Defensive Tactics and/or Martial Arts and making a program that would solely benefit EMS provders (there are several out there) which usually include evasiveness, avoidance, and escape, not fighting. (www.dt4ems.com) Gentlemen who runs that program has sough to the same thing I'm posing a question about. In regards to the one-time defense class, I wasn't talking about that. A Defensive Tactics 8-12 hour class, usually teaches just fundamentals of avoidance, escape, control, awareness, strikes, and use of force. Now I'll say that a "one-time defense class" would be usless, however if it were an 8-12 hour class, and renewed annually (like many CPR, PALS, ACLS, PHTLS, BLS, and ALS trainings) are, then that would only improve the EMS providers awareness and expand there perception of any situation. Initial education as I said above should be in the classroom, A & P, Medical Terminology, Writing, Etc.... I'm talking about having this as a CEU or OTEP, ongoing training. As I said before, the reason why I posted this question was 1) I have seen a declared 'safe scene' go from safe to 'unsafe' and awareness training came in handy, 2) the benefits, I believe of having more awareness training, (either in Defensive Tactics and/or Martial Arts) would only fit to benefit the EMS providers safety!!

My current agency has 6 full time ALS and 1 part time, with 6 full time BLS and 8 part time BLS with 1 ILS fmr employee whose basically a volunteer. We run 5 ambulances 24/7 with 2 crews on at all times, this is a combination of ALS and BLS crews. We actually cover 5 small towns, with assistance from vol fire depts. My former agency which was volunteer but had ALS ran 24/7 with a 3 person BLS, ILS, and ALS crew. They have 4 ambulances with 30 BLS, (All volunteer) 6 ILS (1 full time employee) and 6 ALS (4 Full time employees). My former agency covers 4 small towns with assistance from vol fire depts. This gets nerve wrecking because 1) the towns are not close (furthest is 40 miles) 2) we have to cover with a limited amount of resources, 3) volunteers and paid have advantages and disadvantages, which isn't always a for sure thing. I think you pretty much have to decide if your gonna stay volunteer or go to paid, or a combination and then assess your coverage area, how many 24/7 crews do you need, (volunteer or paid) and budgeting, training, and equipment.

Paramedic Mike, I'll try to reply to this post with as much restraint and respect as I can, ignorance can be irritating... You've obviously never been a scene where it rapidly changed into an unsafe scene, and if you have and hadn't had to use basic escape and defense techniques, your lucky!!! If you didn't notice I included Defensive Tactics in with this simple debate. First off, please don't question my integrity or my status as a Martial Artist! Second, You don't know me, so to prejudge based on a simple debate isn't very civil nor intelligent. Third, You attack and question my status as a Martial Artist, based soley on a forum debate? My question to you is do you even know what your talking about? Or are you just wanting to push a button here? Last, I honestly question rather or not you even know what your talking about regarding 'True Martial Artists' Versus "Those who think they are"... Do you even know what a 'True Martial Artist' is? Do YOU Even practice Martial Arts? I'm seriously questioning if your even a Martial Artist yourself or a wannabe!! Martial Artists are civil in debates, usually. With all due respect, I'm just trying to have a civil conversation as I've had in other forums, with you questioning my status as a Martial Artist, it makes it pretty hard to be civil, I take Martial Arts very seriously!! Sir. But I'm also an EMS provider who has seen the effects of scenes becoming unsafe, even after 'observing, thinking, and declaring' a scene safe, which is why I posed this debate. Now I'll address the other remarks: I do believe that Defensive Tactics should be a basic part of EMS training, especially since scene safety can become an 'unsafe' scene just as quickly and usually without prior notice. The ability to escape such as situation can only hinder EMS safety and provide an extra layer of protection for escaping. Martial Arts can provide this as well. Certainly, we are not LEO's and therefore should be act as though we are. However, any situation in EMS in the field can become an unsafe scene just as much as it 'may' look like a safe scene. Scene safety is extremely important, but what many EMS providers often forget, is that a safe scene can quickly become unsafe for providers. What I would argue regarding Martial Arts and Defensive Tactics training is the awareness training you get from both. The use of force training, perception, awareness, and basic escape and avoidance training which comes along with Defensive Tactics and Martial Arts training. A couple of you argued that if you have to use physical force, you need to reevaluate your scene safety, I agree!! But I would also add that a what would look like a safe scene, could quickly beocme an unsafe scene and with potential injury to the providers. I'm not talking hand to hand combat here, merely training in extra awareness, escape, and limiting the amount of injury to the provider in a situation. (Probably should have cleared that one up!) I'm not sure how some of your agencies do it with certain calls especially potential violent ones, however in my area, LEO's aren't always available and sometimes were in a situation for quite a while, alone with no LEO backup. So the potential of a violent situation, especially in a violent call is high. In MY OPINION, first off I agree, A & P, Medical Terminology, English, and basic report writing should be included in all EMT programs. I know it is for many Paramedic programs. I'm a firm believer in hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst, this includes being prepared to get out of a sticky situation. Martial Arts and Defensive Tactics training offers basic awareness, escape, and defensive techniques. Basic Scene Safety is paramount, but I also have seen a 'what looked like a safe scene, quickly become unsafe. For example, being called to a 96 yo female difficulty breathing, and then having her grandson come out thinking we were LEO's and swinging a bat at us... I believe it should be, at least a basic 8-12 hour class included with CEU's. There are several programs around the USA that do offer such training, which is why I started this debate! Peace.

Terrible Incident. Unfortunately I live in one of the tsunami warning states along the Pacific Westcoast in WA State. Thankfully were not expected to be as impacted as Oregon, California, or Hawaii. But My Thoughts and Prayers Go Out To All The Victims... I know that the WA State Disaster Assistance Team (WDAT) often goes and assists in Natural disasters, I have an application in with them, but they have no openings. At this time I'm not sure if they've been activiated. I'd continue to look around.

Who In Here Believes That All EMS Personnel Should Be Asked/Required To Go Through A Defensive Tactics or Basic Martial Arts Course As A Requirement For EMS Training?

Are there any EMT/Paramedic/Martial Artists in the forum?

Yeah, come to WA State @ Lifeline. We do both 911's and local and long distant transports. As an EMT we do alot of ITA's and transports with ALS. This includes going to pretty much every city in the state. I've been an EMT for almost two years, dont' mind the transports so much, but ITA's really suck! Plus 90% of our job is transports.