ShockDoctor

Gentlemen... ask a police officer how many times he has had to shoot someone. You'll find that the answer is usually zero. Occasionally, you'll find one who has had the unfortunately pleasure of opening fire in the line of duty. If you go to a bad neighborhood, you may find an officer whose had to do it more than once, but they're the exception. Around here, I don't think any police officer in my county has had to open fire in the last decade. So with your guys logic, they shouldn't carry guns. You'd ask them, "Does that one situation that hypothetically might happen warrant carry a firearm? You're a wacker, dude." They still carry their weapons because of a little thing called the "precautionary principle", which states that you don't wait for the emergency before you start preparing. I've never use the term "combat gear". I have combat training (close quarters, firearms, hand-to-hand, building searches, raids, vehicle extractions, and so on), but the extent of my "combat gear" is pepper spray (which, as I've stated before, 16 year old girls carry in their purses). That hardly makes up a "combat kit". Personally, I think if everyone carried OC (not just first responders), the world would be a much safer place. It's a highly effective less-than-lethal weapon, very low risk, and easy to use. This is why even kids can use it. The handcuffs can be seen as a bit much, I acknowledge that. I've been carrying them for years, and have just made a habit out of it. I've never used them before, but it's really not a big deal to pack them in a pouch just so they're available if the day comes I need them. No disrespect to you guys, but I couldn't give a rat's ass about post count. If a EMT-B has a thousand posts, I respect the EMT-P with a dozen posts as the guy having more training. For the exception of the ER Doctor, I am just as high, if not higher, than most of you on the respect scale. So to you, respect or disgrace. You guys all seem like cool people. But you can't argue with results. And I bring the results.

The Epi is for me; I'm allergic to bees. I guess I could use it on a patient, but we've got epinephrine in our buses for them. I'll gladly defend any piece of equipment you define as "extraneous". I've received employee of the month twice in the last year, and I'm well respected in the local EMS community as a professional who takes my job seriously. I attend every training I can get to, buy the best equipment (and know how to use it), and pride myself in being a pioneer in the EMS industry. Anything you feel like challenging me on, go for. I'll gladly defend my practices as they've been proven to have effective results.

They're in separate compartments. Give me some credit, geesh. I have a cheap PROTECH vest that spray painted "EMT" on the back of. I never wear it, though. It mainly stays locked up in my safe room. Though, it has optional tactical pockets that would make great storage. I think wearing that vest would be a bit much, though. Don't ya think? Kid, treat others how you wish to be treated.

I keep them out of sight in a cargo pocket.

Thanks for the respectful post Dwayne! I carry handcuffs in case I need to restrain an unruly person. Haven't used them yet, but there's always a possibility. Plus, the girls think it's kinky I understand the diplomacy concept. I always try diplomacy first, but oftentimes diplomacy fails. Diplomacy didn't work with Hitler, and there are way to many people I haven't a problem comparing to the man. I've only had one confrontation where diplomacy failed (the dog one), but I'm ready for the next (if and when it comes). I assure you, I'm an EMT-P. And I do have my Nissan decked out with lights; I would post a link to the youtube video, but I have a feeling you all would bust my balls even more. I prefer latex for the better feel, but I know alot of people are latex sensitive/deathly allergic. I make it a habit to ask my patients if they're allergic; if they reply in the negative then I use the latex, if they reply that they are, I use the Nitrile. If they're unable to respond, I err on allergic and use the Nitrile.

It made sense when the term was invented. Our county had different types of ambulances. The RA had lights and sirens (and was staffed by at least two EMTs), the "van" didn't have emergency lights and was usually staffed by one EMT and one driver (back when there weren't a million EMTs, we hired laypeople to drive) and was used to respond to non-emergency requests for an ambulance. It actually made sense to do it this way. Instead of occupying an RA with a "I stubbed my toe, so drive me to the hospital" call, they'd send some kid driver and an EMT in a non-emergency van to taxi them while the area RA stayed available for a legit emergency. The vans were alot cheaper to maintain since they didn't have all the equipment an RA had, plus the crew wasn't paid as much (the driver got around minimum wage and the EMT got a little better. A medic was never on the van). Also, the vans stayed parked at one of our centers when they weren't responding to a call, thus they didn't require as much gas. They changed this system about a decade ago when they began retiring the vans and switching to only RAs. We no longer hire drivers; everybody is an EMT. We also call our RAs "buses", which confuses everybody. I'm not sure why, but I figure it comes from the van/RA period. As for me, I'm an EMT-P. I started working as a basic, skipped intermediate and went through EMT-P program at a local college while working.

"RA" stands for Rescue Ambulance. It's distinguished from a regular ambulance by its equipment (and lights and sirens), and is staffed by at least two EMTs (verse one EMT and a driver). It was developed in a time in my county where a distinction actually existed, but now a days just about every bus is an RA. We do have a couple of the older vehicles, but they only get used for special events wanting a first aid team. The abbreviation is still active in our area's radio codes. You'll hear the police asking for an "RA" over the radio, ect. The Power of Arrest training is required for anyone who wants to carry either handcuffs or OC. It's basically an eight hour course that teaches basic criminal law, focusing on private arrests. "Battery", "unlawful detention", and other legal problems that people can get into by restraining supposed suspects. It covers when you can detain, and when you can't. Searches, and so on. We're also required to go through specific training for each piece of equipment we want to carry (OC Certification for OC, and handcuff certification for handcuffs).

This is a horrible idea for so many reasons. First, I disagree with the idea that gang bangers are intimidated by fire trucks and EMS personal. They know we're not the police... I don't see how this is any better than posting a mail man to guard a neighborhood. Or a trash man. Gang bangers don't care if an "adult" is watching them perpetrate a crime. These are the people who will kill you just because they want your shoes. Second, do we want to be associated with law enforcement? My community loves me... they hate the "pigs" though. Third, when a medical emergency (or fire) occurs, why should the high crime areas get the faster response time? This sounds like it really messes up deployment.

Druggies die in police custody all the time (even when they're not tased). The links you provided go to interest groups dedicated to abolish TASER use. Hardly reliable sources. Funny, you were trying to bring the continuum of force up when it applied to your argument... We use deescalation techniques too; those come first. Just because I carry OC doesn't mean I'm not capable of descallating the situation. In fact, if you read my post carefully, you would have noticed that the first thing my partner and I did was to try to deescalate the scene by separating the two. That doesn't always work, though. Somebody enraged enough isn't going to play nice just because you're taking a non-threatening posture and putting your hands in the air. You seem to be under the impression that I jump into any situation spraying first and talking later. I've only used my OC once in my many years doing this. I've deescalated far many more situations. Just because I carry OC doesn't mean I'm using it everytime somebody looks at me funny. Again, you seem to think that I go around spraying everyone with asthma who comes into my sight. By the way, even when somebody has asthma, it's very rare that they have complications (let alone experience death) from being sprayed with OC. Especially low concentration OC. The odds of the above example happening are very low. I'd say you'd be more likely to run an old lady over with your bus than I'd spray and kill someone with asthma. Okay... we roll up onto a scene, a patient and her mother are calmly sitting in their driveway. They don't appear emotional in the least bit. Had a dog been loose, I would have figured that they would have been someplace safer. There was no indication that an aggressive human had any part of anything. Hindsight is 20/20, but I still don't believe you would have done anything any differently. We were not aggressive, we were defensive. We tried to seperate the woman and the man, and my partner got physically shoved. That warranted OC. No, we couldn't have been charged. The police officer made it very clear that we were in the right and that WE could have pressed charges if we wished (and we didn't). Did he physically assault us? YES! He made threats of violence against us (that's assault), he shoved my partner (that's battery). It doesn't sound like you have a firm grasp of American criminal law (since you're referring to "assault" as physical contact). Scoff at it all you want, but that's where my Powers of Arrest training comes in. And I did protect the patient. It was my partner who tried to deescalate the man. I understand, where you come from the only thing you have to worry about is getting jump kicked from an angry Kangaroo. But here, the backroads are dangerous And btw, I work on an RA. The church first aid thing is a side volunteer thing I do.

You guys are both a cute couple! Welcome to the city.

TASERs are very safe. In over a decade there have been only around fifty deaths associated with them (and the true cause to just about every one of those deaths is very debatable). Keep in mind perps dusted on PCP get tased then die, it was probably due to the PCP and not the TASER. How many people have died from trauma associated with fists, feet, clubs, and so on? Many more. Keep in mind your alternatives. As for OC, it's actually universally placed very low on the Use-of-Force continuum; it's usually right above verbal commands. In fact, the second a suspect becomes uncooperative, the local authorities here are authorized to use OC before they can even begin throwing blows. And I don't know what you think I posted, but I'm not routinely spraying asthmatic patients. If one wants to get combative with me, then I'll spray him. But I've only had to spray one person so far (you've read about him), and I don't think he was asthmatic. And if I ever see a Black Bear, I'll be declaring the scene unsafe, not chasing it with pepper spray. As I previously stated, I went into the scene thinking it was safe (my partner also). The call went out as a dog bite, there was no indication that there was any sort of dispute. We arrived, everybody seemed calm, there was no sign of any dogs or unruley people... that changed, and that was my point. Had you been in my shoes, you would have made the same calls, except you wouldn't have the tools needed to control the situation once it turned. I don't think anyone would have handled that call differently.

I'm a medic by day (work for county in an RA), and by night (and by that I mean my days off) I'm a volunteer for my church's outreach group and am a part of the first aid team (which consists of me and a bunch of people with zero training). The US and Australia are very different places. In Australia, I believe it's illegal for anyone to even possess pepper spray; in the United States, sixteen year old girls carry it in their purses. Scene safety is an utmost concern of mine. It's not uncommon for a supposedly innocent scene to turn dangerous. Highly unlikely. I'm a trained martial artist, and I've gone through nearly every combat training class that is offered.

We're allowed to carry OC, provided it's under 5% in concentration of active ingredients. The higher the concentration, the longer the effects last (and that obviously provides problems in a care situation). For example, my 17% Streetwise burns for about 45 minutes (I've tested it on myself) and it's side affects last for hours, whereas my Fox Labs burns for about ten minutes (also tested it on myself) and within an hour it's like you've never been sprayed. In a professional situation, you don't want somebody screaming for 45 minutes (that's just overkill); you just want to stun them, secure them, and move on. We're also required to take an OC certification class in addition to an eight hour "Power to Arrest" class. As for TASERS, they're not allowed at all. I petitioned to make them allowed, but that didn't go anywhere. I don't know why, they're perfectly safe (more safe than OC, I'd argue). The TASER is for personal use, and I don't carry it on duty. As for liability, OC is perfectly safe. In addition, it's only used when a direct and specific threat of violence is presented against us (the EMTs). The alternative would be for us to throw punches, which is far more dangerous than spraying something that only temporary blinds. Furthermore, in our power to arrest class, they made it very clear when we can and can't detain people. As for somebody coming after us after we've sprayed them... you have to figure that in order for us to spray them, they were coming after us BEFORE we sprayed them. If we get injured, it had nothing to do with the OC, and everything to do with the jerk trying to attack us.<br><br>EDIT:<br><br> <br><br>Then we'd have two, possibly three patients, wouldn't we?&nbsp; Plus, I'm not one to cower.&nbsp; I would have a hard time sleeping if I would have done that.<br>

Actually, you don't want tase somebody after you've doused them with OC. Many makers of OC use flammable propellants, so if a shock is delivered in a place that is drenched with OC, you may light the patient on fire. Learned this in my TASER certification class. I obviously mistyped. The majority of scenes don't turn out deadly, just the majority of deadly scenes appeared safe at one point. Your story did give me a good laugh, though. Here's a real story, where I was glad that I took the precautions that I did: My partner and I were dispatched to a dog bite call. The patient was a 17 year old girl who was walking with her mom near her home. Apparently a neighbor's dog (a Dalmatian of all dogs) became aggressive and attacked her, biting through clothing and clawing her body. She was able to get away from the dog, but she suffered some pretty good clawing and bites so her mother called 911. Low and behold! My partner and I were dispatched before the police or animal control. Wonderful system... We arrive and scene and make contact with the patient. She informs us of what happened (we figured the dog had been secured, the scene looked safe). As I was cutting through some clothing to examine her wounds (her clothes were already tattered), her mother began to scream, "THERE HE IS! THERE HE IS!" I quickly turned around expecting to see a dog, but instead caught site of the biggest douchiest/white trash looking people I've ever scene WITH a Dalmatian by his side. The mother began screaming, "FUCK YOU. I hope the kill that fucking thing you..." then the man started screaming at the woman (apparently there was an existing rivalry between them). I jumped in and tried to calm the mother telling her to step out of it, my partner did the same to the man. Out of the corner of my eye I saw my partner go flying back, and it appeared as if the man had pushed him. OC time came as I sprayed both him and his dog (I later found out that the type of OC I was carrying wasn't dog friendly, and caused the dog to tear itself nearly to death. Meh, I'm a people EMT not a dog EMT, I don't know these things). The man came running at me, I dodged him and we all stayed clear. He was holding his eyes in pain and still cussing us out. Animal control soon arrived and yelled at me for spraying the dog (then they detained the man). The Sheriff soon followed, though my partner didn't want to press any charges. Had I not had my OC, that could have ended very differently.

It's our local SOP that if a bus is transporting or caring for a patient at call #1, that it doesn't handle call #2 until we are clear (10-8). There are a handful of exceptions to this rule, but this particular incident didn't fall under any of those.

So, I just got home and need to vent. You may want to stand back. Today I was on lunch with my partner and we receive a call over the radio. Dispatch informs us of an accident on a back road, and the county sheriff was requesting EMS assistance. We were dispatched on the radio to respond code 3, so we tossed our lunch (which we had just gotten) and ran out to our bus. My partner began to drive, siren blaring, I logged into the MDT and got an update. The call was reprioritized code 2 and additional info started coming in stating that it was only a minor fender and one of the participants was requesting EMS, and there was no additional info. As we turned off onto the road we got more info. The patient was 42/F, no further (thanks for the update). We arrived on scene to find a pickup truck and an SUV with no visible sign of damage. A Sheriff's Deputy was also on scene. I got out of the bus and made contact with the officer who told me that the vehicles had a low speed collision at about fifteen miles per hour. Both occupants got out, the woman wanted to call the police, the man in the other vehicle advised against it and offered to settle out of pocket. She called the police and when he arrived he took a report and she said she wanted to see a doctor. The officer recommended that her passenger drive her, but the woman told him that she wanted an ambulance. The officer told me he asked if she thought she had an injury, and she said that she didn't know. He again recommended that the passenger drive her (she had a license and the car was operable), but again she demanded an ambulance, so he called for one. He warned me that she was "kinda out there". By this time my partner was already approaching the woman. He asked her if she thought she had an injury and she said, "I don't know I very well could have. I want to be safe." -Fast Forward- As we were transporting the woman another calls come in. Another accident (this time its more serious, involving a truck and a motorcycle). Oh, and guess what? The accident took place inside our response zone. And guess what? We were the only bus inside the zone! The RA in the next nearest zone took the call and I watched it update on the MDT. The State Troopers had an unresponsive patient... great, all while the bitch next to me was explaining how fun it must be to be an "ambulance driver" (I'm not joking). We got to the ER and the patient started having doubts, "I feel silly now, I'm fine. I don't think I want to see the doctor." Fast forward some more... as we were leaving, her last comments to us were, "Thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanks! You boys have fun now." We got back in the bus, went 10-8, and checked the status of the last call. Code 4, no more assistance needed. At the end of shift, I checked with the guy who responded to my call, and he told me that the patient was DOA, and it took him sixteen minutes to respond from the time the call went out. I could have been there in way less time had I not been tied up. Don't know if it would have made an ounce of difference (probably not), but I can't stop thinking about it.

It's a fact that a majority of scenes start out safe but end up deadly. And if the scene becomes threatening, you'll be thankful when I'm there with my gear and 100+ hours of combat training. We allow OC and TASERS in the car where I live. We even allow rifles without any sort of license whatsoever. We're hicks, though.

"here I come to give first aid." - no self respecting member of the EMS community refers to their work as "giving first aid". "call an ambulance" - if you're a medic, you'd be in an ambulance 99 times out of a 100. If you're not, you'd probably radio for one (not "call"). The fact that you're not a medic is apparent. Not only are you not a medic, I'd put money on it that you're not an EMT or even certified in any sort of first aid whatsoever. If you're a layperson just say so. Had you started the topic with, "Hey guys I'm a layperson and want to know something really basic" you would have gotten some good answers really quickly and nobody would have jumped on you. And to answer your question you should leave it alone nine times out of ten. If you can immobilize it without causing further damage do that.

Funny thing... none of the critical patients call me a wanker when I'm SAVING THEIR LIVES! I'm on a local outreach's group first aid team, so I have my own AED (they helped chip in for it). And no, I'm not a police officer... but where I live, the nearest police officer may be twenty minutes away (if he responds code 3), so the OC and handcuffs are a must. Scene safety is something we don't like to take lightly.

On my duty belt/person: Gloves - Latex and Nitrile Shears - by Mabis Flashlights - penlight and Pelican tactical light Littman III Stethoscope Handcuffs - S&W Model 100 CPR/BVM Hybrid Mask Pepper spray - Fox Labs 5.3 million SHU Radio - dept issued (with my own ear piece and shoulder mic) Business Cards/Certifications (on a strap around my neck) Cell phone EPI Pen Flip Knife (in a boot holster) Off Duty (in my Nissan): AED - by Phillips Assorted First Aid Kit (gauze, bandages, antiseptic, basic stuff) TASER - X2 with spare cartridge Pepper Spray - another bottle of Fox Labs 5.3 million SHU, also a can of Streetwise 2 million SHU (but 17% for a longer sting) CPR Mask Littmann I Stethoscope I'm curious to see what other people carry. post your lists.