AnthonyM83

I've rarely heard of patients, even if built and on PCP, break bilteral handcuffings to mainframe of gurney during transport. And if it happens, never so suddenly that there's no time to stop the ambulance and have medical personnel jump out while officer handles and backup arrives... Think you're more likely to be in a fatal ambulance accident on a code 2 transport.

Second's Dust's comment on the explorer/youth-volunteer & adult employee relations. I'd say there's one of those relations going at any given time PER county where explorers is popular.

I actually had a number of rocket scientists in my bio and chem classes....they had decided to quit their Jet Propulsion Lab jobs and become docs. The "this doesn't take a rocket scientist" jokes in class were endless...

You must be going to a good school. I didn't have to think about my class except for the five minutes before it started 2x a week for 4 hours. :-/

Thing is that full-blow structure fires and SWAT standbyes happen rarely. Traffic stops and domestic violence calls happen several times a day. While it WOULD actually make logical sense, logistics can't support it. But when it ends up that I only do 1 SWAT standby and 5 fire standbies (most under 45 minutes) in one year, that seems doable and a good courtesy if your system can handle it.

I was going to post about that in the last thread, but there were too many discussions going on already. If you're setup specifically to respond to calls for emergency medical assistance of the severity that one would normally call 911 for, and do so routinely, then yes, you're EMS. This is similar to how first responders in vehicles or fire engines or medic squads in some counties respond to treat, but don't have transport capabilities are still EMS. Back to the LE analogy, some areas have "patty wagons" that do prisoner transport and booking for officers who make arrests in the fields. The officers or detectives aren't doing the booking, but they're still out there doing investigations and making arrests.

I wish. I get no lunch break (my roommate is frowned upon when he leaves premises for break b/c it slows productivity), I've only had school canceled ONCE for flooding (no snow days), and LAPD will break your face if you if you call them "dude". And Berkeley is a rad place with smart students. And yes, I prefer my surgeons and EMTs to be more on the nerdy side than the bad boy side. It's an academic field, not fire fighting And again, I doubt the program leaders care about the money. Good point about the city liking good stats, but it's not that hard to believe that the adult leaders themselves would be into running the program just because they like kids and helping. There's people like that everywhere.

Eh, I think you're DQ'ed right there. Sorry :-/ JK

Happy Birthday Vivi !!! Are you old enough to buy vote finally? *runs from Dust*

But would it hurt it more than it would help it? The long process to become a doctor or even a nurse decreases the numbers and prevents some dreams from being fulfilled, but the process ensures those in the field really want to be in it AND increases quality of care for the patient. Remember, it's about the patient and about our country's quality prehospital medical care (and raising adults with non-traumatic childhoods), not just about getting to do your dream job at 16. Hardly anyone gets to do their dream job at 16! Some work 20 years to get it! It wouldn't be that cool in the end if it were that easy to get and everyone was doing it...

Theeennn, why are you are you seemingly justifying the picture by saying it might have that effect (above)? While I don't dress like that I think it portrays a much better image to the public than most companies I've seen (minus the age thing). I'm glad they weren't dressed like cops or firefighters or in military fatigues with pants tucked into their boots with equipment all around their belt. I'd trust the guy in the vest sweatshirt over the guy in average t-shirts and jeans student wear...I might steal his lunch money while I'm at it....but I'd still trust him more. Maybe somewhere along the line in the city manager's office there's a financial issue, but I'm sure they'd survive without it. I'm pretty sure the program leaders aren't in it for the money. I was in a volunteer explorer program for the city and I guarantee you, the city and department lost money on us. And yeah, it's pretty comfortable believing in peace, love, surfing, and (yuck) tofu...it tends to work out when the people around you similarly believe in it.

I'll also start off saying I appreciate you taking the time to really consider this. There have been many things from message boards I've spent off-time considering...even if it's just the internet, the people behind the words are people from the real world with experience from the real world. The only issue I see is that there aren't really that many kids in EMS to the profession to suffer greatly. I suppose in some ways to some degree it would suffer, because I'm sure those kids are providing higher level medical care than a huge number of EMTs out there.

Well, I wouldn't put it that basically, because one of the common defenses is that transfer's job (in reality) is dealing with emergent patients. Most nursing home to ER transfers I've done are really borderline if not 100% emergencies and that's a routine part of the job. So, I think one needs to specific that if your system isn't specifically and formally setup for dealing with official medical emergencies on a regular basis, then you're not EMS. (?)

Ha, that's certainly true. Have you ever seen scientists argue? It's wild. Not cause they hate each other, but because they both care passionately about the truth and science. But then again, we also have to realize not everyone here comes from the background, experience level, and exposure that would let them appreciate that. Nor do the ones who do appreciate it want it to all the time. Can't forget the sociological element here....

I wasn't asking you to apologize, but I am totally lost, how would the pictures of him with a kick me sign and a loser stamp help wake him up to reality and see his time EMS amounts to no good? I just don't see the connection from A leading to B. Even if he was open minded and listened to what older professionals told him, he's probably just feel like a "loser" and that's it. None of the other stuff you mentioned... PS You're also assuming the leaders of the group are doing it for monetary reasons. More realistically they believe in what they're doing, whether deemed right or wrong by us. As was mentioned, it doesn't seem this town is desperate for money.

LA County isn't a great model for much of anything in EMS, but the way it's done here. Basically it's there's list of criteria for which base contact is required...it also means transport is required. If they refuse, they talk to a doctor/nurse on the phone, then they sign an AMA sheet. Except for special circumstances, no AMA form is needed if situation doesn't fall into that criteria list, because patient is not going against any medical advice. http://ladhs.org/ems/Manuals/policies/ref800/808-1.pdf

As an afterthought, to add to my analogy above comparing transfer companies to security companies, the on-the-job training (which makes a big difference) is different, as well. That's part of your formal training, learning how 911 calls play out. EMTacademy...how is it someone's right to call themselves part of EMS?

Dust would report you for ageism and heightism....though I guess you could report me for playerism...

Not bad for an IFT, company, but the thread isn't discussing how competent, well-structured, professional, and busy a company is. It's discussing whether it should be considered EMS. I think the fact it does 911 backup is the only thing you said that makes it EMS (though many companies say they do 911 backup, but it happens twice a year b/c they're 5th place on the backup list, but I don't get the sense that's you guys). I would say that on a regular basis we do very similar work. Just like my college's top-notch professional security office (whose officers were peace officer trained & certified) did very similar work to law enforcement and at times actually did the exact same work as law enforcement, they still fell into the classification of private security or campus safety, not LE. But they had good reputation with local PD and I think were considered partially part of the family. You guys run a lot of calls that should be 911 calls, so at times you're pretty much doing emergency medical work...but just not from within the EMS system.

But how would you know the choice for you was right AT THE TIME. It might have been wrong, yet you likely would have made the same choice. The problem is you can't tell before the fact. And also even after the fact, there's a tendency to rationalize why it was good for you, especially since people like to appreciate the experiences they have whether good or bad b/c it's brought them to where they are today. As far as DRIVING, that should be based on their LOCAL stats. Maybe their crash rate is significantly lower than most other systems, for whatever reason. THEN maybe they should drive. If it's even close to comparable with other systems, THEN I'd say no. Do it by the numbers, guys. Sorry for all the posts. I'm playing catchup.

So, you openly admit that while it might screw some kids up and all the other points made that you acknowledge, you don't care about them (enough), because getting into it young helped YOU. Seems on the selfish side to me.... Additionally, you (and me) are still on the young side....we couldn't judge how it really helped or hurt us overall until maybe a decade later, I'd say.

16 might be an okay age to start riding out with an adult who regulates what they see ("stay in the car for this call") 18 is probably an okay age for full exposure, though later would probably be better. 18 is college freshman age, not thrown into full experience age, as general rule...but if violated at least it's easier to handle. It's not good when all a person knows is a the career world they've been a part of. Similar to kids who go from police explorer applicant at 13 1/2, parking officer or CSO at 18, officer at 21,...all they freaking know is the LE world, used to having pretty much immunity since 14...only have LE values and outlooks, not as in touch with real world and people they serve. I imagine there might be a similar effect with kids who start EMS in HS and just stay in it. I did explorers...it was definitely real world exposure, but officer still protected me a bit...not like a parent would, but maybe how a big brother would...they'd show me the cool stuff, but they'd draw the line if they thought I really wasn't ready. Though, what DID screw me up from it was all the non-LE stuff...inner department, interpersonal relations stuff of the raw LE community there, not the field stuff itself.

What about the issue of having experience problem solving, helping people deal with mature life events (family losing a person, wife crying to you with blood test results b/c husband intentionally gave her HIV, dynamics of a domestic situation). That's not even touching the issue of having the kids grow up normal so they can assimilate in the professional and social world normally which betters EMS workers' image. The fact that they are doing the job is NOT a disgrace to the profession. The fact that they CAN do the job, that it IS easy enough for a high schooler to do (and do well, probably, at least medical aspect of it) is what's a disgrace. It shouldn't make you sick people believe HS'ers can handle the job, because they're believing correctly. HS'ers CAN handle and do handle it. I realized that way back when I started my EMT course and realized my 14-year-old brother who hadn't even taken high school biology could have gotten an A in the course with some studying.

For some reason your old office looked spiffier to me...but that's cool you have a better place. What's the rest of the building contain? Warehouse still? Spenac, doesn't matter your age or height, but who gets more play

Yeah, he did set himself up for that one saying he's saved lives...but then again the host/interviewer set HIM up...and the kid's goal is making the program look good. I was always told to save the stories and bragging for the girlfriend Kid's just trying to get laid, come on, now. 8) And with that I'm off to sleep. See you all in 24 hours (plus sleep-in time).