AnthonyM83

So, I've hit the 3 month mark as an EMT. I still want to get a bit more time on, because I've been working a day-car and the 24-hour cars get more experience. But I'm starting to think of medic school. Problem is I can't afford it on this $10/hr job and paying back student loans at over $250/mo and $850 rent, plus other bills/expenses...and I live pretty meagerly. The main school everyone wants to go to is $7,000 I think as part of UCLA's PreHospital Care department...but I heard it's really run by a nonUCLA hospital which is rather disorganized. I heard of some for about $3,000. And someone said there was one for $600, which seems kind of nuts. It's a 2 hour drive away twice a week, which I might be able to do...but I also want good quality teaching...prefereably above and beyond quality teaching. My first step will be to start asking around, but really all the medics here are FF (who pretty much are sent to that UCLA one) or a FEW long-time medics with our company who were hired back when we were an IFT company, before the 911 contract. Even after I became a medic, I don't even know where I'd work. We're not hiring really...and pay is only $3 bucks more. But from you guys, I'd like to know if cheaper medic schools are usually lower quality education... I suppose I could just get the basics from the class, then have to study a lot on my own to become proficient at stuff...but I'd like to get the most I can out of the class. Anyone know of student grants available for medic school?

Man I'd welcome any of you jump in the rig with us to observe...you could be disguised as an EMT student ride-along.

Sigh. I'm sorry to hear that. I'm just jaded into assuming that anyone I know, even closest friend, could do anything at anytime. While I do think my friends aren't 'that type of person' I almost never assume they 'could never do something like that'. Makes it less of a let-down when you find out. (probably not healthiest attitude though)

Additionally, my fear about getting a new partner is being stuck with a real jerk. There's a lot of guys who aren't in it for patient care at all, just want to get into FD (though many are in it for both). They're super alpha male serious who sit back and talk about FD. Hard to have what I call 'real' conversation and have some bond with the person I see 12 or 24 hours a day. My partner is actually a good guy and has genuine concern for each and every patient we see. Not once has he gotten so annoyed with them (or their smell), that he just detaches and does the call to go through the motions like other people I've worked with when we get drama or repeat patients. Only worked with a few people like that (them usually being premed or preparamedic track).

I've tried. Like for the gurney I said early on: Me: "So, I think we're having some problems coordinating the gurney. I think we should come up with a system...like certain phrases so we know exactly what we mean." Him: "Uh, I think we have enough trouble communicating as it is. A system's just gonna confuse us more." Me: "Well, I need a way to tell you when we're about to hit something and you need to stop pushing to stop it right away. We're alway almost hitting stuff and if I yell, 'stop now', it's going to seem weird to everyone around us and ER staff like I'm yelling at you like some asshole. Maybe "hold up" could mean stop right now!...simple stuff like that, not like Code 321-alpha" Him: "We're not always almost hitting stuff." (and here it derails...but I go with it to try to get to bigger issue) Me: "Yes, we are, we're always like an inch from bumping either nurses or the wall. I wouldn't care about the wall except we get a lot of people in pain and it hurts them to bump." Him (louder faster tone): "Look man, we're an ambulance company. We're not in the comfort business (cliche). There's going to be bumps." Me (louder too): "But we don't have to have these kinds of bumps and the we don't want to be crashing around the ER. That's why EMTs are seen as clumsy." Him: "Look, just worry about your job and not about them. We can't make everyone happy" Me: "I'm not TRYING to make everyone happy. It's just simple stuff." Him: "Look man, if you want your little system, fine! let's just have codes! Let's be the military." Me: "Nevermind...we'll try to listen to each other when pushing the gurney" We both feel like screaming at this point...actually half the time we actually do end our conversations by (in half joking way) just yelling at the top of our lungs to relieve stress (not yelling AT each other, just in the air)...then we go back to social friends. Argh. (Notice how we never even addressed the gurney problem. Though less often, I'm still always rushing to stop the gurney b/c someone walks in front of us and he's looking around and still pushing, so I have to basically stand in front of it and half get rammed to stop it with my body weight...or just yell stop loudly...which would get stares from nurses and docs.....OR he's rotating the gurney and just looking at his end without making sure my end is clear...I mean maybe I should just always be jumping to hold my end when I see him start to move it...but when I'm pushing it, I always look to make sure there's room at the other end.) It's like he feels there's no real problem. Oh, I've also been chewed out by FD for almost dropping a patient (this was much earlier on) b/c he turned it to fast from the rear. SOME stuff we've been able to work out, but it's so case by case instead of solving the overall problem...like getting him to not just let go of patients when pushing them into an elevator...leaving me to try to stop the momentum to prevent gurney from hitting elevator wall. But it's hard to go through every single situation with him...and i sound anal again. PS I think also a difference with us is the FTO I had was very precise and way into patient car. He had me pulling up on the gurney (not lifting, just so there's less weight) at EVERY little bump on the sidwalk saying each bump is felt stronger by the patient. My partner was probably taught by someone like my 3rd FTO who just swings it around roughly (though still in control)...but in his area they get waaay fewer geriatrics or delicate patients and high call volume. So, that's an example of how I can't bug him to do things the way MY FTO taught me b/c for him it's going too far on being careful and delicate...at least i can't without seeming like a jerk.

I don't think I want to bring a supervisor into it. For one, who knows how much he'll car and want to work things out with us rather than just splitting us up. But mainly, it would just be incredibly awkward and I don't think either one of us would feel comfortable working together ever again. I mean working 12 hour shifts with him and getting along great (when not on a call) for the past three months, he's now a friend...in writing it seems simple and logical, but in reality it'd just be really weird. PLUS, if others got wind of it, they probably wouldn't want to take on a new partner who got his previous one in trouble. The solution might just be putting in for a new shift (it'll take awhile to get it). I feel like it's like a relationship where two people are totally incompatible, but they try to make it work, constantly trying to make it work, because they like each other, but neither person really changes. What I need is a 3rd person watching us all the time and writing down exactly how we end up in arguments. BTW, I don't know how does with other partners. It's hard to have time to talk to people he's worked with b/c we usually do OT at different stations.

We're both new EMTs....I got certified a year ago, but needed to finish up the school year my old job. I think he's more recently certified. This is our first EMT job for both. I just hit the 3 months on the job mark a couple days ago. And yeah, along with the short training period, I think it's a real flaw in the company. This leads to more mistakes and figuring stuff out in the field on the fly. They also originally placed us in THE hardest area to navigate, spaghetti hill they call it. We had a 16 min response time once, b/c on the map there were two main roads that lead directly to the call. One was a straight high speed road, another a wiiiindy slow one and you can't back turn around once you're on it. No way to know from the map.

Someone from this site gave the recommendation of carrying your shears in your boot, which I now do. I have the smaller kind, which usually works for all the unexpected things you need to cut. If it's an actual trauma where you need to cut everything off, I'll be using the regular size shears from the jump bag. Putting them in your back allows them to fall out and stretch your belt out and get caught on things or grabbed by psych patients. And you look less Ricky Rescue.

Bolded for those of you who don't read long posts...you can scan. I'm not sure what advice can be given other than getting a new partner, but thought I'd throw it out there in case anyone's had similar experiences. So, I get along great with him when just talking on the ambulance. Similar interests, humor, mindsets, values. We really entertain ourselves to death and are constantly out of breath laughing. BUT when we're on a call or even just discussing work/procedure related stuff, it's complete miscommunication. It's like a bad relationship. Conflict at every statement. On call, we cannot seem to coordinate the gurney. When we're first on-scene it's just a befuddled mess. Now, here's the critical part: This doesn't happen with my other partners when I pick up OT or he trades a shift. When I'm with someone else, it feels like a strong confident purposeful crew like I think we're supposed to feel. I think part of it is that we get only 3 days of training when we get hired, so there's a LOT of ways of doing things that's left for individual crews to figure out. Another difference: I volunteered, then worked, at a PD (non-sworn) for over 6 years previously...I grew up in the culture, so we have different mindsets as far as emergency services. I'm liability minded (compared to at this job...at my old job I was comparatively very casual), I'm into progressing EMS field, have some experience in social/political dynamics of an agency. Now, I HATE being the one correcting my partner. And statistically, I'm new too, so I'm going to be wrong sometimes, so I feel weird correcting him most of the time, b/c when I'm wrong he'll go "haha! See! I was right"...normally though it should be both of us correcting each other. Basically, I don't want to be anal, conservative-liability, admin-type guy. Examples of arguments: -Refer to the "How to not be flow and not be clumsy" thread (he'll turn gurney at his discretion, not checking if it's clear at my end, so I'm always jumping to prevent someone getting hit or bumping the wall) -About it being unsafe to activate your L&S when an ambulance is passing you code 3 -Where to park when getting on scene -Not parking with full code 3 lights going to preven accidents -Not annoying dispatch by asking to upgrade to code 3 or change channels when we do a move-up all the time (I've trained in PD dispatch and seen dispatchers go off on units who ask for mundane extra things "If I wanted them to go code 3, wouldn't I have told them1? @#$") -When we're first on, he's worrying about lowering the gurney and unstrapping the belts and prepping sheet before getting to patient, telling me to go ahead with pt...but if I'm first on, I need him to do VS while I get a Hx...or scene could be unsafe or help moving pt to start my assessment. FD responds to each call, so we'll have 8+ FF in minutes to take over while we get gurney ready then. -Arguments, because as soon as he hit the 3mo mark, the scheduler (whom we get along with well) asked him to put in for FTO, because he's shown "drive and enthusiasm"...which is true...he (and I) will cover shifts whenever needed, always energetic, friendly. BUT they have no idea how he on scenes. We've only twice had a supervisor observe us on scene, both times I was attending. Yes, I admit, there's some jealousy...but it weirds me out he'll be teaching others when I keep teaching him a LOT of basic stuff (which I get from here or from my FTOs...basic as in whether heroin constricts or dilates pupils and other medical or basic policy stuff) -He only has 3 weeks seniority...I can't correct him on stuff all the time and I shouldn't. BUT our company's VERY strong the idea that partner screw up together. If one messes up, the other one almost always gets in trouble for not having checked him. If he takes a certain route that I disagree with and we're late to a 911 call, we both get in trouble. Thing is I'm new too, so I need his help too. He's older...so he can give me help on common sense issues. But it's just a weird dynamic now and often leads to long periods of silence after problems on a call. And it's hard to differentiate when I'm telling him something I know from experience and when I'm doing my best guess just b/c I'm a new EMT like him. Seriously, it's like a love hate relationship...it stresses me and relaxes me. Ah!

They apparently have a pretty cool ATLS (did I get that acronym right?) simulator someone was telling me about. Takes you through the whole thing with full animations and you click on the tools you want to use.

I think it's also partially a "this is a new ambulance company and most EMTs have less than 6mo experience, and few more than 8mo 911 experience, b/c the company won the 911 contract just 9 or so months ago. It's a free for all on a lot of procedures and will probably be so for years as more incidents happen and more rules are made. I've tried doing that at times, because really it was the safer option instead of opposing traffic, and was talked to by the FD medic truck following behind afterwards. I actually have one radio the FFmedic in the back to tell him to tell me to speed up and use the siren (even though I had green lights for miles and great traffic flow...after I hit the siren, cars started doing the whole crazy stop in their tracks and block me routine...and the medic didn't get as smooth a ride). Edit: It surprised me when I moved down here, but in Los Angeles, roads are SO congested, you never get cars to pull over for you when approaching an intersection. You pretty much always have to oppose oncoming traffic. With 3 - 4 lane streets and all lanes packed, there's not much place for cars to go. And there's ambulances flying by so often, drivers would probably be flipping out if you forced them to scatter all to the right to make a way for you. So, even ambulances don't really pull over when waiting at intersections...b/c you'd be the only one and would screw up traffic for the next light cycle...that's if you were even able to pull to the right any further.

I've noticed that a lot of ambulance drivers will turn their lights and sirens on at intersections when another ambulance is approaching them code 3. This is obviously meant to help the code 3 L&S ambulance by getting the attention of more drivers and stopping the intersection better, with the extra siren and extra lights. I usually don't do this, though, out of concern that cars will get mixed up and just see me with L&S, assume the intersection is clear to make a last minute dash while I work through traffic (since I'm just sitting there), and might collide with the code 3 ambulance. I think it's safer to have only one siren per intersection and it should belong to the unit crossing it against traffic. Sometimes I'll put just my lights on and sometimes just my rears. I never see PD turn their sirens on when we pass...it's just too much noise and distraction for motorists (which I think a lot of ambulance drivers just like b/c the L&S are cool and fun), though PD often actually clears the intersection in advance for us by pulling into it with lights going if they see us coming up behind them...which is nice. Not sure if I would do that, though, since it's hard to maneuver the ambulance back into traffic...and I'm not a cop. Others' thoughts?

Well, some say three's a crowd...not me...it's company. BTW, never implied you ask for drinks. Just thinking that it'd be easier for a lawyer to prove employment if you (editorial you) fly frequently, because after you help someone and get a drink, it's possibly understood you might get something the next time you help someone on a flight. Versus someone who helps out for the first time and later gets a drink for the first time, because he has no knowledge of this supposed "employment" at the time he rendered aid. There was no empoyment relationship at that time. Edit: And this is only because the topic about the lawyer's advice was brought up.

Pretty much...? And I want people to explain themselves when asked.

I don't think s/he meant that and I don't think people took it that way. It's emplied that it's for times you're on an emergency run that they go lights all the way to the hospital...if there was doubt, you should ask not confront right away. Why I care? B/c the poster will statistically reply to the easily answered question and not to the comment I made in my previous post.

Identifying oneself as a medic just seems kinda weird to me. I haven't flown since becoming an EMT, but I don't think the idea of identifying myself would even come to mind...even if I was a medic. Mentioning it in conversation with the flight attendants is totally different, though...(hey, were you trying to get into the mile-high club?). As for the reimbursement for drinks, I would imagine that to be a problem only for the poster who brought it up, because he flies all the time. Once it turns into a custom and starts expecting the drinks under that unspoken understanding, it could be considered employmenet maybe...though who the heck would know? (well, guess they might ask you in court). If you just help out, then later accept drinks, it's not really employment. You did the action without being yet "employed" at that point in time.

I think the point is not to have the mindset that if others are too stupid to handle the lights, then it's their fault. B/c it puts you and patient at risk...that's the primary concern. The drivers who crash are secondary concern.

Ain't that the truth. I was also told that suicidals were just attention seekers. As I grow older, I keep hearing about more people taking their lives...one was a mentor of mine whom I thought was a good person. Something I might one day want to do is work as a negotiator or at least prevention hotline. I'm not ready for it now, though, because I know one line would stop me and I wouldn't have anything good to say back. "You don't know what I'm going through." And they're right, I have no idea how much pain they're feeling...it could be emotional pain 10x worse than the physical pain of having an extremity sliced off...we don't know the psych/neuro illnesses causing their degree of pain. BTW, don't know if it's the proper technique, but after having a number of friends go suicidal on me (I'm always the non-judging listener in the groups, so I think they come to me more), I just guilt trip the hell out of them...makes it easier to reach a resolution so much faster.

Exactly what I was going to say. If it's bothering you, detach from him as a patient you're trying to help and see it as meaningless motions you have to go through...it's kind of cold, but it lets you feel better about your job, have a better day, and be able to help more people. And like other said, there's often mental illness involved. Even if not apparent to you on scene, there could be real detachment from reality on some levels.

Oh, then nevermind

Well, actually my partner said he's doing it because he needs at least 6 months experience to apply to PA, school. My FTO and another guy I worked a trade shift with are pre-med and they're pretty damn serious about it (4-year graduates, good schools, have taken MCATs, waiting for responses)...they did it to get patient contact experience which is desireable (not the actual EMT part, but the loads of patient contact is important). For the RNs, I think it's just fun for them to be in the field a little if they're into emergency medicine, test the waters...they're usually in school concurrently, but still need a job with a flexible schedule. BUT I also see the kind you're referring to, around here. Gosh, I almost prefer the failed pre-med to FF track guys who don't care about patients or job at all (not that they all don't, but a number of them don't).

Respectfully, that's a dumb question. If you were starving on the street and a guy did whatever to make you hate him (maybe he was an assassin of little kids which made him rich), but then gave you money so you could eat and survive, would you return it to him? Not likely. You'd take it because it was the best alternative for you, but you still had full right to judge him for being a baby assassin

I want to reply to this specific part of your message. I don't necessarily agree (or even read) the rest of his post, but it's completely human nature to not want something around because they know they can't resist it or their youth will be sucked into it. Take MTV culture or Cosmo. How many people spend their lives obsessing about image, coolness, fashion, looking anorexic, yet still say they hate MTV culture. They hate it, but they end up accepting it, because others do, and that's what they feel they need to do to fit it in and get ahead...and in many cases, they're right. So, totally separate from whatever you guys were discussing, I wanted to address this point.

What's that make, like hydrochloride? That ain't good

Losing my family to one of these freak accidents is actually one of my childhood fears. Apparently a number of mom's (and others) die each year from mixing bleach and ammonia. They clean toilet with ammonia and notice it's still dirty, so they try some bleach and bam.