DwayneEMTP

First, my apology if you believe that I was attempting to misrepresent you either in fact, or spirit. I have nothing but respect for your posts. It wasn't my intention to misrepresent you but to extrapolate what I believe to be your point. An all men's club should obviously, from what I read into your brief answer, allow women into their privately funded club. Therefore there should be no protections offered to areas or gatherings privately funded. Therefore anyone should be allowed anywhere at any time despite the desires of those that have spent their money to create that 'anywhere.' Creating straw man arguments was accidental if that is in fact what my post represents to you. It truly appears to me to be a difference in scale, not one of philosophy when I imply that if they should open their privately funded club to those that they don't wish to socialize with that, you too, should then be willing to open your privately funded and maintained home to those that you would choose not to live with. I'll ask that you forgive my ignorance when I say that I still don't see the difference. Perhaps you thought that I was being modest when I stated that you're posts are intelligent and thoughtful enough to be intimidating to those of my more limited intellect. That's not the case. I mentioned 'shallow' and/or 'insulting' intending to explain my comment that followed, not to attempt to create/build on the argument that you have been either. Flippant might be more appropriate, and I still feel that that may be appropriate for the response. Should I ask "Should intubation be allowed as an immediate intervention upon witnessed cardiac arrest" and you're answer is "yes" then I will note your opinion but it will have almost no value to me from a point of view of debate or education. It's awesome if I'm taking a poll, not nearly so helpful if I'm exploring a point of interest, which I believe was obviously the OP's intention here. But perhaps I've misunderstood the point. If I'm forced to give a one word answer to the stated question my answer would be "no." Thanks for taking the time to respond. I truly look forward to your thoughts. Dwayne

I disagree. It's only hurtful when used in the politically correct sense that gives it the weight of anger, hate and fear. We discriminate constantly in science, choice of clothing, and yeah, certainly in social acquaintance. I understood the message in your brevity, but with this being an education forum, with the intelligence of your posts often being intimidating to those of my level of limited brain power, it felt as if your post was intended to be insulting only, or shallow to the extreme, both of which I had a hard time swallowing when coming from you. That seems a very socialist idea to my reading. Would you then open the club to anyone? Should those with no money be allowed to play then? The homeless allowed to bath in the pool, or sleep in the lounge? All of their expenses covered by those that fund the club so as not to discriminate on financial social values? If so, should you not then also be required to allow anyone that comes to you to live in your house so as not to discriminate based on financial or familial social status? Isn't it truly just a difference in degrees from one to the other? Should you have the right to separate your family from those that would choose to live in your house based on such an antiquated concept as 'family?' If my wife and I go to a bar I choose not to let the dirty, fat drunk guy share our table. Not from a belief that I am more valuable than he is, as I have no idea who he is, but simply because based on the way that he's chosen to spend his evening I'm confident that I won't enjoy his company. There's every chance that tomorrow I may have to beg a job from this very same person, but I've chosen the company that I want to be with while spending my time, and my money. It seems though, that your argument states that I, if I'm to be a good, non bigoted person, should allow him, and all others, to my table in the spirit of all inclusion. And that makes no sense to me. I believe that your previous brief argument works in a, what others but not me, might consider a perfect utopian world, but certainly not in a free world of genetically, emotionally, intellectually, sexually, spiritually evolved/evolving people that will always choose one type of company over another in certain situations. But then again, you're probably right, what could there possibly be to talk about regarding such a cut and dried subject? Thanks for your thoughts Brother... Dwayne

Thanks all. I've never really given that much thought despite having worked in some pretty cold places. Is there ever an indication for an extremely rapid rewarming I wonder? Say, 100F bath? It's not important, and I'm not sure if it's an appropriate question for this thread...Was just thinking of zebras...

Can you say that here?

Strange response coming from you. I've not known you to litter threads before... Is this truly your only thought on the matter or were you just having a bad day?

What is 'after drop?'

Friggin' insanity....

LMFAO... I just hope to God that a penis never becomes protocol for PR hypoglycemia...

I think the thing that irks me the most is when basics say that people ask them, "Are you a medic??" as I don't think that I've ever had such a question on scene.... I had a newer medic when I was working the BP oil spill all freaked out because they didn't have any more shirts that said, "Medic" on them. I gave him mine, saying, "If anyone has any question about what my job is during an emergency, then I don't really deserve to wear this shirt anyway..." He was thrilled! And the shirt probably got him laid all the while I was in camp downloading porn..... I've just never had the question that the basics to have consistently. "Who are you and what do you do???" Perhaps I've been blessed, but those on scene tend to follow me...not because I'm good looking or smart, those that know me will tell you that neither is true, but because I'm willing to take charge, and it's an incredibly rare thing to find people, when the shit hits the fan, that really want to do so. After the fact, everyone seems to have been in charge, but during....there is normally a long line behind one person... I think that's what irks me...the basics that making this argument (The minority) claim to do so because it's a never ending issue...for me, it's just never happened, which makes me question their honesty, or the reason it's happening to them...

If you're a new medic, or basic, or anyone interested in the thoughts of a developing medic, you really have to read Fiz's blog. Perhaps old time medics, docs and nurses will enjoy it to, but I don't have the perspective to guess such a thing. I've read this over and over and finally, after sending him hundreds of naked pictures of myself he's agreed to begin writing again if I promise to stop and never send so much as a face pic again. Thank God for that as I was even starting to gross myself out. http://babymedic.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2006-01-01T00:00:00-05:00&updated-max=2007-01-01T00:00:00-05:00&max-results=11 I'm posting the link to the beginning, as you really need to start there. I'm not sure how he feels about comments, but I've sent him many over the years and he's always pretended as if they were well received and appreciated. Do yourself a favor and have a look. Maybe it's just something that resonates with me and it's not as good as I believe...but I hope not. I've leaned on it a lot when I've gotten lost...

The problem with that attitude Mike is that that is the reason the public is still confused about the difference between a paramedic, a basic, a fire truck and an ambulance. It's fine to say, "I am who I am", of course you are, as are we all. But we don't pay the bills, nor make the staffing decisions where EMS is concerned. The general public needs to know the difference, they need to know where they want to spend their tax dollars. Right now they, for the most part, make those decisions based on the latest TV dramas, and that's not only bad, but it's unfair to those that EMS is meant to serve. It's all well and good to 'just be what I am' if I want things to continually stay the same. For change to happen education will have to happen first. Perhaps this is a small thing, but it's still a 'thing' that's easily changeable, and when we see a need, even a small one, we should lobby on behalf of evolution instead of stagnation? Just leave me alone and I'll leave you alone is the reasoning that's kept prehospital EMS's development retarded for the last 25 years.

I think that self splinting here is perfectly acceptable. Just let them hold it where it feels best and adjust when necessary giving them a pillow for support if needed, which it probably will be. This is maybe not the best option for all, as many will feel uncared for if you explain for them to hold it where it feels best, but when I was greener I had a couple of people ask me if they 'could just hold it' while I was trying to do all of the things I'd been taught in school and I thought, "Hmmm...why isn't that just as good, or maybe better?"

Older thread MM, but I'm actually happy to see it come back to life. I'm curious if there are any new thoughts on this subject given a little time and distance... My opinion remains the same at this point... We often criticize the inability of the general public to push for logical, intelligent decisions regarding prehospital EMS yet fail to educated them on the choices that they've already made. Any moment that we allow misconceptions to pass are moments missed towards being able to move prehospital EMS forward as a profession. And that should be frowned upon.

I really, really get what you're saying. Medicine is strange as it changes so much. There is so much that makes sense, yet when tested shockingly proves to be wrong. Many of the things that you were mistaught weren't simply outdated books, but a tendency for those that came before you to want things to stay the same. The fire depts for the most part abhor education and consider it a waste of time, the 'old timers' sometimes feel that they've seen it all and done it all so are offended that anyone would want them to have to relearn something....it's about politics as much as stale textbooks. Each time that I've had to recert in ACLS (Advanced Cardiac Life Support) there have been changes, sometimes significant. It all works out man..baby steps... You're doing fine Brother. Just remember that though it's ok to be offended that the EMS educational system isn't what it should be, that changes have to be made slowly and often those with the power to make the necessary changes like things just the way that they are. You'll become a bit biased and jaded should you choose to continue to come here as you'll be constantly exposed to others above you certification level not just in the U.S. but around the world with better and more sophisticated systems than ours....it's good to know as long as you keep it in context.

Yeah, a little bit, but it's not your fault. Many of us when newer to EMS believed all that we were taught and that the things that are done locally are correct, and done everywhere. It can be a truly rude awakening to come to a point where you're forced to say, "Holy shit! I studied, and worked, and approached this process with a good heart and it turns out that I've been fed some bullshit?? And how do I now tell the bullshit from the truth?" I learned pretty much all that I needed to know about you when you chose to stay in this thread and participate instead of disappear, or worse, make up bullshit stories to try and support your point. I'm grateful that you've posted and have no desire for you to recount your statements, though I'd like to recount one of mine. Though some folks allowed you to get started with some misconceptions, the fact that you're still here and appear willing to change your opinion when given new evidence...well, that's the best of what happens in EMS. I'm afraid I somehow got the impression that you were a long time basic, it was my error to jump into the middle of you when you're newer to the field. My apologies for that. No need. We're at a point in the history of EMS where we're discovering that many of the things that we once believed intuitively correctly are not only not helpful but often harmful. We've been strutting around crowing about our awesomeness though we've been hurting people and denying our harm. We're also are having issues getting things changed because so many want to ride with lights and sirens but don't want to progress. Again, those comments towards you were made because I'd assumed that you were an experienced basic that debated the value of science as a way of maintaining the status quo...that was a foolish assumption for me to make...good on you for being a better person than I was and staying to play. I don't accept your withdrawal, but given a bit of time to look into it, and discussion with others here, I'd be thrilled with an amendment. It's easy when you first come here to assume that those of us with strong opinions are just smarter and more experienced than you. I may be more experienced, but am almost certainly not smarter. I didn't come by my thoughts and opinions in a vacuum. The opinions I have on LBBs started with our doctors here, and others much smarter and experienced than myself, who supported them with scientific data. When you're challenged to defend your point with data it's important that you understand that not a single challenge was made in the hopes of making you look stupid or impotent, but instead to teach you a better way to think, to present your arguments, and an uncommon way to look at EMS. Had you been able to support your opinion with scientific research you'd have made me look like a complete ass...and I'd have thanked you for it. Each time you prove me wrong I get stronger and smarter and if my ego can stand it there's no down side to that. Don't every apologize for being contrary. For a new poster, and a new basic, you're posts are really good. It's simply not possible for you to come out of school without a bunch of ideas that are wrong. But that's what makes this forum so valuable. It's good to have you here Brother...it's all about the learning, and the progression of EMS individually as well as nationally. Sometimes the conversation isn't wrapped in velvet, but it's always good. Should you get shut down when/if you choose to broach the subject of the value of LBBs to your peers or instructors, let us know and we'll give you all of the studies that you need to put the posers in their place.

Law suits are the rallying cry for all of the uneducated. Basically your statement says that "I will continue to hurt patients as long as I have a good excuse not to change and no one forces me to be more progressive." You're attitude is one of the many things that are wrong with U.S. EMS today. So your doc left the C-Collar on, what life altering spinal injury did that save this patient from? You forgot to mention that which, logically, should have been the culmination of the above nonsense. A dislocated jaw and scalp degloving does not a spinal injury make. And even though they should give us a reasonable suspicion for the possibility, please post your science based evidence that the C-Collar would have prevented further spinal harm. Your feeling is based on what? Your 'impression' of what's right and wrong? Your protocols, which have been proved archaic and faulty? Absolutely, there is always that possibility. But what motivation do you assign to the researchers of hundreds of studies all over the world that have created data strong enough to convince most of the world to stop using these devices? What benefit do they all have in common? How do you support your ideal that there is a world conspiracy to falsify research data in relation to LLBs and C-Collars? Perhaps you feel that the back board lobby is so rich and powerful that it can corrupt the world? For your point to have the slightest validity you need to have at least a theory where that question is concerned. You come here with an apparent disrespect of published physicians and science in general and hold up as your proof of superiority your 'general impression' and anecdotal stories that show that you've actually seen an injured person in the past and seem to feel very self righteous in your argument. My wish for you is that you come to see that your line of thinking is a problem, not a solution to what's wrong with EMS. Combine your apparent lack of ability to logically assess something as long standing and clearly supported as the LBB issue with your stated fantasies of being put in a position to scare and humiliate new EMS students and it seem clear that you need to take a few steps back and look at your basis for being in EMS or change to a forum that is more impressed with bluff and bluster over substance. You show a common weakness of many relatively experienced but less than committed basics. The lack of education to more realistically assess medical issues, yet the confidence that comes with performing monkey skills that look cool on TV but provide very little benefit to patients. Some of the most intelligent people on the City are basics, so it's not a slam at your cert level, it's just that you personally still have a lot to learn at this point...As do we all.

Man Herbie, I wish I'd said that instead... +3

Damn it, got caught up in my post and forgot your invite... We're having a BBQ in two months when I get back from my next rotation...It turns out that the petting zoo I wanted isn't available, so we'd love to have you!

Actually, I was at an Elk's club (I think, or one of those kinds of local clubs all towns have) with a black friend. We'd been invited by a member, a bunch of us, to watch my cousin's band play. After we'd been sitting for 10 mins or so several men came to our table and escorted Tony (The black guy) away. I figured that they were friends of his as it didn't appear to be confrontational, though I soon went looking for him when he didn't return. It turned out that he, and Bruce, the member that had invited us all, had been escorted from the building as the charter clearly states that it is a white's only club. This was in California in the 90's!! Later they politely ejected another black man that turned out to be one of the most successful businessmen in this town who chose to be more vocal about it. The rule was soon changed. I once went into a club that I'd gone to as a kid that had since turned all black. I soon noticed of course that I was the only white in the club but chose to stay because at the time I felt that that made me obviously superior and non bigoted if I could pretend not to notice color. A BIG black man came up to me after a few minutes and asked if I would consider leaving. He explained that though I had the right to stay if I chose that I made some of the people uncomfortable in this environment. As it was the only black club in town he was worried not just for my safety but for the public reputation of the club should things turn stupid. I thought that it was a perfectly logical argument and marched my happy ass to another bar with a paler clientele... Cultures are different, sometimes people just want to be with those that share their core energy. I'm not allowed into MENSA because I'm not smart enough. Not allowed many places because some people just want to be in a place without people like me. I'm allowed in some places that others aren't because those people, insane as it sounds, prefer my type of company over the company of others. I have no issues with a blacks only club, or whites only, or gay only, (though I've been in each where the crowd was predominantly exclusive and always felt welcome), as long as they don't accept govt money to support their separatism. Allow a men's only club yet exclude the possibility of women making their own clubs and you'll get me up in arms. But that's just not the case here... One of the things that Dust and I agreed on was that we often make rules for women that we used to reserve for animals and children. When we make new rules for women to force them into an all men's club we're also saying that they are too stupid or weak to create their own club of women or mixed sexes. When we make it rape to touch a drunk chicks boob at a college party we're treating her with the same respect that used to be reserved for farm animals and infants.We're making the statement that she's too stupid, or weak to know how much to drink, where to go, when to leave, or able to emotionally cope with a touched boob. Of course this diatribe is meant for the type of situation described only, not for true, violent rapes or sexual attacks. Sometimes when we take up a person's cause it's because it makes us feel better, or superior, when in fact we're only really robbing them of the option to fend for themselves, which has been shown to me with proof to spare, that most women/gays/people of all ethnic groups are more than capable of doing for themselves. I'm not claiming that no one ever needs help. Only that at times we can smother people with help, in the guise of respect and love, to the point of helping them to become impotent.

It might be easiest if you posted some current, peer reviewed evidence that intubation in arrest is warranted and productive.

Good summation Mikey... For those in the camp that believe that this is wrong...how do you justify forcing people that have spent their own money creating an environment of their choosing to allow others into that environment? When I have a BBQ at my home I choose the guests, as it's my home and my money paid for everything. Should I then be forced to allow the homeless/black/gay/(name your favorite non included group) neighbor to come and participate in the spirit of inclusion? The concept is the same, right? Only the scale is different? I'm hoping that it goes without saying that I don't have a personal exclusion list based on such things. If I throw a bachelor party for a friend, am I then an elitist or sexist because the wives are not welcome? I can't imagine wanting to be part of an 'male only' environment. I love female energy. But because I don't see the value in it doesn't mean that it should be disallowed in my opinion.

Babe if you're considering getting your EMT Cert you're gonna really need to redefine your idea of rude.. You've been fine...

For what?

If I had a terminal illness the line between allowed and disallowed would be terminally blurry... Just sayin'...

Woman! Know your place Album: Dwayne Stuff Uploaded 29 Oct 2011 - 10:28 As was said above, a private club is private, allowed to give or deny access to whoever they choose. But if they accept a single dollar of govt money or or are allowed tax breaks then they need to be a public, non biased club...