DwayneEMTP

Heh..yeah, waiting sucked. Waiting while me and likely everyone else knew that I was an idiot for being in that situation? Really, really sucked. But it was an excellent lesson on intervention planning before implementation. Dwayne

Please answer the question or stop wasting my time. I'm not claiming that any patients are stupid, simply uneducated in the matters that you want to dump on them. After the space shuttle blew up were you disappointed that the entire technical report wasn't splashed across the TV? Not really, right? Because we couldn't have understood it. That information would have confused and confounded us. Not because we're stupid, but uneducated in the ways of the space shuttle. "A seal failed." We can all get that. They didn't withhold information to hide, they did it because that information was not useful, and possible damaging to those that can't understand it. Like your father in laws cardiac issue. You got just enough information to get you fucked up, and you in turn fucked up the rest of your family. Shame on the cardiac folks for releasing information that was strong enough to make you cry but too complicated for you to understand in context. Again, continue to twist words in any way you want, but you're not dealing with the 5th graders that you normally win arguments with, if this is common logic/tactics for you. You're gonna have to sack up here man and debate like an adult if you want to play. The truth shall set you free? That's truly your argument? Idiotic in this context Friggin' rocked when King said it. Answer the question, stop waffling, stop restating the same bullshit without addressing the issues, ok? Dwayne

Wait just a damn minute...! Did a homosexual just call me a Liberal? I'm not really sure what to do with that.... But it does go to show that every walk of life can see that Liberals are a problem..so that's good news.... :-) As stated, I believe multiple times, I've truly reported every significant error that I've Ever made made. And I say that with no reservations whatsoever. The first time I pushed Phenergan I accidentally pushed 25mg into an 80 year old man and nearly needed to intubate him before we got to the hospital. I have no idea if that was reported to the family or not, but it was reported in my run report. What benefit do you see that the family would have received by me or the doc reporting that to the family? How would they have been better served? I didn't hide it to protect myself, as I reported it, and documented it in every way that had the ability to get me jammed up should the system decide that jamming me up was what was necessary. And you're almost certainly mistaken about the embulus. I think someone posted a study here once that said that for their to be significant danger from an air embulus that the amount would need to exceed 1cc/kg of pt body weight. That is a LOT! Though I would imagine that it would depend on the site of introduction. Look only at the effect that you've had on your family. You've gone off half cocked, admitting that you've not seen the pt file, gotten everyone all upset, when you have no idea what you're talking about. Medicine is a practice. Someone isn't necessarily at fault every time something unexpected happens. That, brother, is a fact. Please answer this question, that you continue to ignore. What benefit, other than the right to litigation, would the family gain by being made aware of any and all medical errors? Dwayne

I've never claimed that the system was perfect, never in fact even hinted at that. Only that it is better than anything that I can come up with with my microscopic view of the issues. You want to explain the elephant to the patient yet you've only touched the ear. And if you're a professional, and have the training to understand what happened to your father in law that allowed an air embolus to kill him within two minutes, I'd love to hear the physiology behind that. And why was a perfectly healthy person undergoing a procedure? Particularly a procedure that would cause/allow an embolus of that size? Again man, it's cost/benefit, like everything else. We MUST have reporting if we're going to have improvement, and we won't have reporting if every tiny error comes with a lawsuit. Also, we'll never have aggressive providers willing to do what they think is best to provide the best care. Because being aggressive means that sometimes you're going to screw the pooch when you work alone. We've all said that over and over. Why do you insist on continuing to queer the conversation by pretending that people are arguing for hiding life ending errors? Could you PLEASE quote for me where anyone has claimed that that is legal, moral, ethical, or has their support. And if you can't do that, then stop making shit up to pretend that you have a point, ok? Enough bullshit Flaming. I'm sorry about your father in law. But shame on your for trying to make his death another reason that the world is against YOU. News flash hotshot, the world doesn't revolve around you. You are arrogant, delicate, childish, and completely full of shit sometimes, but all of that combined doesn't make you the center of the universe. And you know why all of this pisses me off? Because I believe that you can do better, but you instead choose to take the crybaby's way out hoping that someone is going to come running to you to hold your hand. If you need to cry about your father in law, say so. We've got a bunch of wonderful, softhearted souls on this board that have a terrible habit of coddling those that just want to whine but don't want to grow. If you want to debate the issue at hand, then lets do that. But stop trying to do one while pretending to do the other, ok? Alright...Let's try again. Please quote from the posters that, as you claim, have made the argument that it's good to hide life ending mistakes in order to protect other medical providers. And/or, and this should be easier yet, make the argument from my posts that I believe that the system is perfect. Thanks you for your participation. Dwayne

I swear my first posts at that, or one of those neonazi sites was to some dickhead that was bashing, (supposedly kindly but with obvious arrogant passive aggression), on some kid that had asked what I thought was a simple, but common question. I posted something like, "Hey hotshot, how's about you grab your tweezers, put your limp dick back in your pants and cut this kid some slack? Sorry man..Ignore the internet hero...This is what I think....blah, blah, blah." The very first response that I got to my very first post when I checked back was to see that I'd been banned! And friggin' Dust was a member there at the same time! WTF? Heh.... Yet every month I get a 'We miss you! Come back!" email...Funny shit right there... And for the record, if this thread derails and ends up just talking shit about stuff? I'm good with that too... :-) I'm just really happy to be able to bullshit with people that speak English... Dwayne

Hey all, Having about 700hrs/day to sit and think, I was thinking today about the pros and cons of EMTCity. What happens best here? And worst? Here are a few that come to mind for me... Pro: An endless supply of information, in context. An amazing variety of providers from all parts of the world, at all levels of experience. Plenty of thick skinned folks to remind me when I'm being to much of an asshole. Cons: I think that often we are too hard on the new folks. Expecting someone exploring to be able to take advice in the same tone as someone that's been here a while is unrealistic I think. Things I hate: People that can't seem to spell their own name one day and then the next are claiming that the cellular physilology of the newly discovered Angolian tropical disease should be common knowledge to any 'serious' provider. Trolls People that have no opinion until someone with bigger balls expresses their and then says something to the effect of, "Yeah! me too! That's what I was going to say!" Those are off the top of my head...any ideas? Dwayne

Comment comes not only from this post but his previous posts of seeming to believe that anything not owned by the government to be evil and corrupt. Didn't mean to take the thread down a rabbit trail. Was only trying to make the point that he'd been heard before regarding his beliefs secondary to his political leanings and didn't need to attempt to do so again here. My apologies for the distraction... Dwayne

That's a good point. A couple of years ago a friend of mine and myself hired one of the instructors from the local community college to teach a private class, as we were both on leave from Afg at the time. I think he charged us $150 or so each. I made it clear that I didn't want it pencil whipped so over three days we recerted in PHTLS, PALS (not needed but we both wanted it) and ACLS. Not too expensive for us, considering it was done on our schedule and private, and the instructor did pretty friggin' well too. I'm confident that I could have found one to pencil whip it for the same money or less...but what kind of a loser chooses to ignore continuing education? Wait a minute....It seems I may have read something somewhere......? Dwayne

Edit: Not trying to beat a dead horse. Redundancy due to PCP and I posting at the same time. Yeah, I've never worked, nor even visited a place where they had enough people to get this done. I didn't think that you came across like that, nor sounded cross. You did well making your point, to my way of reading it at least. But your laziness doesn't only reflect on how I see you, but how you see me as well. If my/our opinion isn't worth the effort of proof reading your posts to try and post in an intelligent manner, then you really don't value my/our opinions very much, right? Many of us started out here with posts looking like they were created by a drunken 4th grader, as when we start we don't always understand the tone or the context of the forums. But this is a professional forum for people that want to do their best, and want to get better. This is a great place to do both. And this is also an excellent place to practice your presentation for the times that you'll need it in the real world as well. Which, believe it or not, should be every day, whether you have reports to write or not. I'm not busting your balls brother, I'm truly not. Only trying to help you learn to get the most from the City, as well as your professional EMS career. Dwayne

Welcome to the City man... Watch your presentation though. People here only have the way you present yourself to get to know you by...take an extra minute to proof read. This will be a great resource for you if you choose to use it. You will take a bit of shit for being a fireman, but if you don't have the balls to stand it then you probably don't have the balls for EMS either. Good to have you! Jump in and learn... Dwayne

You know man, we all get that you have your deep seated Liberal hatred of the privates, but if you want to be taken seriously you should really make some effort to support these types of statements. Dwayne

So you slow to look at the scene, whether you (general) choose to stop or not remains to be see, but at least looking in so that you have some half way decent information to radio in seems prudent... What do you see when you stop/slow down ak? It might help to add some perspective. Dwayne

I got the feeling that he's not talking about good natured pranks, but the bullshit, "I had to be humiliated in order to participate so you will be too" crap. I'm with you Brother. There is a certain amount of foolishness that comes with getting to know each other, I think that's why guys are so famous for insulting each other. It does two things, first, allows us to see how the other responds..sort of a litmus test for where we're at. And also says, " I trust you to be able to take this in the spirit intended", meant as a compliment. Making a new person uncomfortable is inexcusable and counter productive in my opinion. Having a little bit of fun to include them in the "I don't have to tip toe around you' group expected and healthy more than likely. Good post man! But watch your presentation, ok? People only have the way that you present yourself in text here to judge and get to know you by...make sure you take an extra minute to make a good impression. Good to have you... Dwayne

Yeah man, the tongue/cheek went right over my head... Dwayne

I think part of the issue Flaming is that you're unwilling to discuss the issue. People are not interested in spending their time to reply only to be fodder for you to restate your original opinion with additional exclamation points. I know that that is why I'm not participating any more. I showed you the respect of pondering your questions, spent significant time creating what, to my little pea brain, was a thoughtful response, and then you showed me the disrespect of simply ignoring it, and the next one too. Address some of the comments in an adult manner and I think that you'll find that many more people will want to participate. Dwayne

JP, the problem I see with that theory is, first, you begin to have medical decision significantly influenced my monetary concerns, and next you have Bob and Leroy fighting over Ms whoever's call because she always turns into a transport. That is worst case scenario of course, but as humans, particularly where money is concerned, we seem to take the low road too often. Dwayne

Oh man that cracked me up.... Dwayne

I can't, as I'm not educated enough in the different forms that this may take to give a valid opinion. I would never do it, unless the compensation per call was big and the area was known to produce a lot of calls, and the service quality high. The only people that I know that do pay per call runs here are vollies. I've never heard of anyone making a living doing it. And I've never seen an area where even one of my requirements would be met. I don't see how. What you didn't include in your quote is that though I don't find myself above falling victim to such thoughts, that should I do so, it would be bullshit. I decide where I'll work, for how long, and how much I'll need to be paid to do so. I'm not a victim of my employment, but also not above petty jealousies either. How can I excel in a system like that? Why should I be anchored to you if I am more motivated and better educated? Or you to me? And please don't say that it's because EMS is so different from other jobs that there are no objectives/subjective methods to measure 'better.' (Don't make me come up to Canada and slap the shit out of you! (Yeah, stolen from below)) The free enterprise system says that anyone can pay anyone as much as they want as long as it's above minimum wage.Beyond that people should be able to succeed or fail as individuals. Fire, most EMS systems, and in fact most other entities that have failed to become powerhouses and end up being full of old douche bags who's pay based on, primarily, longevity instead of merit. In other words your entire goal in life only has to be to not get fired and you get to succeed at the same level, and often above that, of the strongest, smartest person on the roster. At my last gig a full time position came open opposite of my temporary position. The medic that was offered, and accepted, the position had never really been anywhere, nor done anything significant in EMS, and had never treated a clinical patient before getting the permanent position on that vessel. I don't know him well, but I think that he's a good guy. I've got a pretty fat resume, had worked my ass off and helped us keep some work and perhaps get some new work in my last assignment for the same company. He was given the job instead of me based solely on the fact that he was sitting at home while I was working He sent me an email saying, "Hey! I got the job!" and I sent one to the company that I now work for and said, "I'd like to accept your offer as I'm no longer a good fit with my present company." Not because I was angry, but because it was the last straw that showed me that you couldn't succeed in this company on merit. It had to be who you know instead of what. And if you're willing to sit home unemployed and available waiting for the phone to ring. And that's truly ok with me...as I have a right to choose to make different decisions. At my previous company everyone makes the same money for the same position which has led, in my opinion, excluding myself, to all of the best medics leaving and going to companies that understand the responsibilities of the position. Eric, the new member here is one of 4-6 medics that I worked with in my previous company that actually wanted to do medicine. He worked hard every day, happy, professional, and has now landed a really good gig, but because he won the "Can you fly tomorrow?" lottery, not because he's a rockstar medic as it should have been. Out of the other hundred plus that I worked with, nearly all were happy to sit on their asses and wear their remote medic shirts to the bar and get shitfaced. The reason that they were happy to do that is that they knew that there was no chance that getting up early, or doing good medicine, or trying to represent the company well was going to gain them anything at all. You needed to be near headquarters where being very visible to the powers that be was possible to get any type of serious promotions. Their more realistic option was to avoid getting fired until a real medic did something that got him/her a raise, in which case they would all get one too. That doesn't hurt my feelings, I just have no desire to participate in a place where me and the douche who's impotence killed the baby are seen as equals simply because we have the same cert. I don't enjoy it, I can't succeed there, and in my experience all of these types of businesses end up being populated by unhappy, below average underachievers because all of those that like to excel have left. See? Hold the phone...surely it's not your contention that being on call is equivalent to running 8-10 calls/day? I'm on board brother, and I know that being on call isn't a zero, but we have to be realists. I'm on call 24/7 x 28 days in a row, so does that mean that I do more work than any of you? Heh...trust me when I say that that is unlikely... Of course I'm comparing it to the average rural medic doing the average rural medic duties, not all of that shit that you've just come through. We need to try our best to stick to apples and apples. I know it's tough as I can see you getting your claws out just from the tone of your posts...just sayin'.. Though you may be too involved to see it, and Siff isn't far from ranting about how all of these problems are because we guys can't get a hardon, you have to admit that if you look at it from her perspective it's not difficult to see her point. I don't agree with it, but I believe that if you truly can't see anything in what she ways, then you're not really looking very hard. Dwayne

You know Siff, you can complain all you want about the disparity and unfairness of the system, but you as well chose to play in the game. Does it suck? Yeah...I can see why you hate it... I can't comment too much, as I don't understand how your system works, or who should get paid as much as anyone else. I can say that it would look bad if I ran my ass off day in and day out and then saw another medic that runs a few calls a month get paid as much as I do. It would, but it would be bullshit if it did as we all make our own decisions. You need to decide how much money is enough for you, and what you're willing to do for it. Also, you gush over the people that have come before you and have made your job and wages what they are yet tell Mobey what a douche he is for doing the same, as you see it as coming out of your pocket. Where do you think that the money came from that increased the EMS standards in your area? From fairies? And to equate a statement that remote medics likely do more critical care, long term transports to, "So I guess city medics are morons compared to you!" is just silly... I hate any system that pays based on a set salary. Every position should be merit based..but that's not the case, so we work with what we have. And the two gigs are so completely different. You are paid to run calls in the city, where rural areas are more buying an insurance policy. They don't expect daily performance, but excellent performance in the rare times it's needed. Pretty simple solution to your anger really...pack up and move to a rural place. Make the same money for doing much less work and all should be right with the world? Dwayne

There is no benefit to reporting directly medical and procedural information that the majority have no way to understand. That doesn't benefit them, it only makes you feel like a hero. Though not for a second do I believe that you actually have any intention of reporting anything to anyone. I can say with no reservations whatsoever that I have reported every known error that I've made to the receiving docs and nurses, though I'm sure that I've made plenty that I'm unaware of. I don't report the odds contracting a sexually transmitted disease/unwanted pregnancy to rape victims during transport, I don't explain to children the state of the foster care system when choosing to involve social services in a call, and I don't torment patients with oversight responsibilities to ease my troubled conscience. There is a reason that things are done the way that they are done despite your need to try and wrap the entire process up into a healthcare wide system designed exclusively to protect stupid medics. And if I believed as you claim to, though I doubt actually do, I would still follow the process based on the likelihood that a gazillion years of moral/ethical/educated/committed Drs and nurses and psychologists and philosophers before me have likely come up with a better plan than I'm able to based on a few years of EMS service. Dwayne

I received your reports but have decided not to act on the post as it was in response to one of mine. I'll leave it for one of the other mods, or Admin. I can tell you though that if I hadn't read it I would have been more than comfortable deleting it based solely on the quality of the posters that reported it. And for the record? At any get together that I'm involved in gays are more than welcome, but pigs....not so much. Unfortunately Flaming, and this would not be within my power to do autonomously, though I have fought hard against banning even the likes of Crotchity at his worst, it is getting easier and easier to make the argument in your case. Just sayin'.... Dwayne

Ahhh...so you weren't really looking for discussion after all but a pulpit to make that point.... I still disagree, for the reason that you ignored above. And should you choose to follow your conscience, instead of accepted medical standards, I hope that you'll report back from your new, non EMS career after your patients sue you into the poor house. Dwayne

Nice! Lets make some time to get together when you come through, ok? Or we can meet in the middle. Do you usually know when you're going to Denver? Dwayne

Unfortunately another aspect of these injuries in this environment is the, "I can probably move my thumb, but it's worth a hell of a lot more money if I can't" syndrome. It may be a shitty thing to say, but I'm guessing that you've already seen a few of those patients. Even the heard working guys don't want to gut themselves out of a decent settlement sometimes, and that can make the initial assessment tough, and the follow up, "I've had some time to think" assessment even tougher. I loved the guys on my rig, and most of them were stand up, but I rarely saw an injury that didn't have at least a flavor of that... Will you be able to follow this to resolution if he doesn't return to the rig? Dwayne Edit. I didn't mean to imply that the entire injury, or the majority of it was faked..only trying to show how sometimes assessments can be retarded in an environment with an employer with really, really deep pockets.

I didn't read the whole thread, so maybe I missed it...but was this private EMS or Fire? And if private, what WERE 6 people doing on one call? Even if it was an arrest? Dwayne