Lone Star

My only question is this: How can you attempt to (trash, bash, flame, isult, degrade, razz, 'snap'...insert favorite word here) me for following MY protocols? Your protocols do NOT apply to Me, just as mine do not affect your job. I personally don't care if you're Dr. Kildare and Marcus Welby, MD reincarnate....if My protocols say a Basic can't do something, then THIS Basic isn't going to risk everything he's worked for! This whole post asked if anyone had any experience with Basics pushing meds 'in a pinch'. If I were able to pick and choose the protocols I wanted to follow, then Med Control wouldn't have included it in that big ol' book of 'em! I don't have to like the limits of My protocols, I don't have to agree with them, but I DO have to follow them! I realize that you can only do so many things at once, and I've never disputed the fact that as a higher licensure than mine, I really should be helping you with those things. But administering drugs outside of the scope of my protocols ISN'T one of the things I should be or am willing to do! As far as 'working in the real world', I've worked in metro Detroit, that's about as 'real world' as you're gonna get! There isn't going to be any '500 what-ifs'...I've stated once again that I'm following protocol, and like Paul Harvey would say 'Now you know ....the rest of the story'

Since you are NOT the pts physician, I fail to see what authority you have for writing prescriptions. You stated that the pt does not have a prescription for it. Falls back under the part of My protocols that says BASICS CANNOT ADMINISTER MEDS (outside of the previously mentioned exemptions). This is the part where you should actually feel relieved that I'm not going to violate my protocols, and therefore risk your license for ordering me to work outside the scope of my licensure. I worked too hard and it cost me alot of sacrifices to obtain my license, and keep it for the last 11 years with NO complaints or actions against it. I for one would like to see that record continue....

In My protocols, the Basic cannot administer nitro that is not speciffically prescribed for the pt.

Well said! In MY protocols, I'm not allowed to push any drugs. I can assist with epi pens, I can assist with nitro, but I cannot push meds! It's plain and simple...I cannot push meds! I don't care if the medic implies that I should, or outright orders me to.... I can't push drugs!

Scratrat, Its not that we asked for 'time to forget', but time to let those directly affected that may be taking part in this forum to deal with their loss, and get their feet back on even ground. I agree that although this issue has divided the forum participants, issues that we feel strongly about (whether pro or con) SHOULD be discussed. Let's hope that this can be discussed in a logical and intelligent manner, rather than resort to insults and name calling.

First off, I offer my condolences and sympathies to the families of th victims here. Second, I have one statement, the rest of this whole debate can continue at a more appropriate time. The gun shop where Cho got the gun from has been linked to guns used in 5 mass shootings, and when interviewed on television, the owner made the comment that 'a legal alien with a credit card MUST be a 'good person' (as seen on CNN) tells me that he must not be following ALL the BATF/State gun laws for sale of firearms! Cho had been hospitalized on at least one occasion for 'mental problems' before he got the guns! He was sent to New River Community Services, a counseling center off campus, and then was detained at St. Alban's, a mental health center near Radford, Va. Police said they don't know details of his treatment at New River, and on Wednesday they applied for a search warrant for his medical records. The officials didn't say how long he was treated there, but his roommates have said in interviews that he was gone for one to two nights. If his detention was involuntarily, it should have shown up on background checks when he bought two guns in the 10 weeks before the shooting, officials said. ( http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18175525/ ) Now, before people start blaming Glock and Walther for the manufacture of the guns, it doesn't apply. That's like blaming Ford, General Motors or Daimler-Chrysler for someone getting killed while racing. The manufacturers CANNOT reasonably control the use of their product by the 'end user/purchaser'!

The last count I heard was 33 fatalities, and 28 casualties

Therein lies the first problem of your whole argument! From what I've seen in your posts, you're trying to battle logic and facts with knee jerk emotional responses. I personally wouldn't volunteer my services as a career. Being single, I can't afford to donate that much of my time away from trying to eke out a living. Giving back to the community is a good thing, its honorable and noble, but it will NOT put bread and butter on the dinner table!

For the record, the Theo J. Buel shooting of Kayla Roland (which happened within a half mile of my house), the gun that was used was owned by a CONVICTED FELON who had the gun stashed under a pile of dirty clothes in the house that he was living in with the child and mother. (The gun had been reported as stolen) The boy was shown by the uncle, how to load and charge the weapon. I'm glad that you qualified that statement with the word 'usually', because where I live, there are no 'gated communities', nor are we 'in the boonies where the worst crime was someone parking on the grass'. The majority of my 'information' does not come from the evening news, but from seeing it each day, and hearing reports from the local police department, how people are getting shot in the face for a pair of expensive shoes, coats and the like. Yes, I've looked down the 'business end' of a gun in someone else's hand....and it's not a very good feeling! I've been mugged at knife point, and I've personally known people who have been pulled out of their cars by punk hoodlums who are emulating the 'Crips' and the 'Bloods' because they've seen it on television, and think its 'cool' to be in a gang. I'm not some member of the 'Minute Man Militia' or any other 'anti-government' group. I'm just an average citizen who is tired of being a victim, while the overworked law enforcement agency is too busy dealing with other incidents to just have an officer stand by in case I need them. Most people that live in the more affluent areas of Flint, MI lock their doors as they enter the area I live in, or they go miles out of their way to avoid the area entirely. While I've tried to discuss this rationally, intelligently, and simply state MY views on the subject; you, sir, have resorted to personal attacks and insults. As I've stated before, I don't care what your views are, I don't care whether you like the idea of my ability to LEGALLY carry a concealed pistol or not. The views I espouse are my own, and I really don't care if you like them or not either. The ONLY reason I even waded into this 'hot topic' issue, is to share my views with those that can actually discuss them logically and intelligently. I've said it before, and I feel I must reiterate: I'm not out to change anyone's viewpoint on the issue of concealed carry, gun ownership, hunting, or taking the opportunity to climb up on a soap box to regurgitate the propaganda releaseed by the NRA or any other pro-gun group. I do NOT support "vigilantism" in any manner, shape or form! I've shown your viewpoints the respect that they deserve, because they are YOUR views. I've done so without resulting to the childish act of ridiculing them, skewing them into something unrelated to your views, nor used them as ammunition to ridicule you personally. This entire post was spawned by a knee-jerk reaction to the State of Texas enacting their 'Castle Doctrine Laws' and enabling people who can LEGALLY carry a concealed weapon to keep said LEGAL weapon LOCKED in their vehicles at work, which (if you'll note) apply DIRECTLY to concealed carry!

I've intentionally left the rhetoric out of it. I mean, I could start spouting all sorts of pro-gun statements, statistics and examples to the point that I sound like a poster child for every pro-gun organization (NRA included). I've left that for those that feel the need to 'convince' others to change their minds and become 'card carryin', gun totin' proud NRA Lifetime members'. Obviously not all of us live and work in such a well protected bubble as you do. Not all of us live in some affluent closed gate community. Having lived and worked in such places as metro Detroit, and having been the victim of gun related crime, I DO believe in a 'proactive approach' to not only MY safety, but the safety of my loved ones! I'm sure that if you've ever been in the position to look down the muzzle of a handgun (whether legally obtained or not), you'd have a different outlook. Just the feeling of having to hope and pray that you're not going to get shot because you've only got $30.00 in your pocket at the time that someone sticks a gun in your face, is not a real good feeling! And, if you can't outrun a bullet....let's see you just turn tail and run out of the 'situation'. If taking a proactive stance comes from 'watching wayyyy too much tv', then the converse also applies; since you seem to think that the police are always standing around just waiting to protect you from the 'bad guys', you've had your head in the sand WAAAYYYYY too long. Personally, I don't care if you own a gun or not. I don't care if you hunt or not. To tell the truth, I have better things to think about. I've given your points of view the respect that they deserve, because they're YOUR views and beliefs. All I asked for was the same in return.

First off, can you define 'her vitals were great'? Second, I'm presuming that 'everything returned', you're referring to the original complaints? What was she doing when the original symptoms occurred? I'm leaning towards a drop in blood pressure when she stood up causing the symptoms to reappear. The sudden drop in blood pressure would explain the 'dizzy and weak' part, and a release of adrenaline could explain the diaphoresis. When the symptoms returned, did you by chance reassess the vitals?

Well said Dust! Much to the chagrin of some partners I've worked with, I try to use the K.E.D. as often as possible. My personal school of thought is this: If the pt is NOT 'time critical', then why not take all the steps available to ensure proper spial precautions are in place? Having been a pt in a couple of situations where proper protocols weren't followed, I have to say that Im pretty lucky to even be walking, let alone even be here at all. It amazes me how many 'justifications' I've heard for not following protocols, and how many partners stand by and allow it to happen!

Here's the 'problem' with that statement. Just because someone has a Concealed Pistol License (CCW [carrying a concealed weapon] is actually a criminal charge), doesn't mean that they're out there 'cleaning up the streets'. We CPL holders have a very narrow window in which we are allowed to be justified in using lethal force. I'm not a police officer, nor would I presume to have the authority and training to do their job. I pray that I never have to draw my weapon and use it, but when it comes to protecting my family and myself from violent ARMED predators, I have no problem in doing so. Just because I'm issued a CPL, does not excuse me from showing the same amounts of self control that I would have to use if I weren't armed. In the link I posted earlier in this thread, there's penalties listed for infractions of the rules governing the privilege of being able to carry a concealed weapon! Another thing that is just sitting the wrong way, is the misnomer of the Castle Doctrine Laws. They are NOT the “Make My Day” Laws! That is a name that the detractors of these laws have given them to inflame the general public to gain support and thereby oppose these laws. In my opinion, the decision to carry or not to carry is a personal one, and I will not try to persuade someone to rethink their decision, nor try to convince them that my decision is the ONLY way. I expect the same respect for my decision, because it’s MY decision. I will not spout propaganda, ‘statistics’, or any biased ‘reports’ to support my reasoning for my decision. As I stated in my first post to this thread, the only reason that Texas seems to be singled out (hence the title of this thread) is because of the quick association of Texas, the old west and the old ‘B’ westerns.

Congrats AK! I'm thinkin it happend awfully quickly to be talking about marriage and all... Keep us posted to all the proceedings and progress!

It all boils down to this: Regardless of where you order the badge at, what it says or doesent say, the bad guys aren't going to stop to read the 'fine print' on the badge. They're going to see a shiny object pinned to your shirt, and react as though you're a cop. (I've worked Detroit, and seen this with my own eyes) You've listened to those of us with years of experience, but the bottom line is this......you want the badge, you feel that there's a 'need' for the badge, and no matter what we say here, you'll order that badge .... mainly because you've already 'justified' it in your own mind. EMS wearing a badge is akin to the hobby cop security guards walking around with every gadget known to man hanging off their duty belts. It serves no real purpose, but it makes them feel 'important' and looks cool to their friends. When I worked down in New Orleans after the hurricanes, I saw many 'security guards' buying up Security Enforcement Officer badges....and then was amazed at how many had been hurt while making their rounds in the dark.

Well, since everybody is being so civil in this, I will do my best to follow suit. First off, I think the only reason Texas was used as an example, is because of the movie version of the gun totin', posse formin', whiskey drinkin' shoot -'em up cowboys we see on television. In all acutality, Texas is not the first state, nor the last state to enact concealed pistol licenses. There are alot of 'Right To Carry' States already. In those 'Right To Carry' States, I believe that they are actually allowed to carry a weapon in plain sight. I don't live in such a state, (State of Michigan is not a 'Right To Carry State), but I am licensed to carry a concealed pistol. I not only had to go through not only classroom training (which outlines the rules of concealed carry), but also had to take a 'range test' to prove proficiency. Even though I have a license to carry a concealed pistol, there are areas that I CANNOT carry it. Hospitals, schools, churches, bars, municipal buildings (such as the Courthouse), places of public polling (where you vote at) to name a few. I cannot carry a pistol if I've been drinking (zero tolerance policy in place). Michigan, like many other states has what was named "The Castle Doctrine" package of bills (so misleadingly referred to the 'Make My Day Bill"). In a nutshell, this allows me the right to defend myself in places that I'm LEGALLY allowed to carry a concealed pistol. (Until this legislation was enacted, when faced with an armed attacker, I had to try to outrun the bad guy, and hope for the best) The rules for the use of lethal force are very strict, and very clear. It is NOT, (although some would like you to believe) that it gives me the right to 'shoot first, ask questions later'. Michigan, like Florida has put in the legislation, that if after a thorough investigation, the shooting was justified, I cannot be charged criminally, nor can I be subjected to civil litigation by the 'victim' or the surviving family. (This ONLY applies to a 'clean shoot'!) Here's a link to the Michigan concealed weapons laws: http://michigan.gov/msp/1,1607,7-123-1591_...10926--,00.html Michigans 'Pistol Free Zones' information can be found here: http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1...10947--,00.html The detractors of not only the concealed pistol legislation, and the Castle Doctrine legislation tried to say that if these bills were signed into law, then 'the streets would run red with blood of innocent people' and that violent crime and crimes involving weapons would rise to astronomical levels. In the first year, violent crime in Michigan (it's the only state I can speak about with any real authority) dropped by 10% in the first year alone! Although I am trained to intervene in medical emergencies, and use my skills to protect the fragility of life, I have no qualms about pulling the trigger when it comes down to defending myself and my family.

In the county I live in in MI, the county paramedics (with the sheriffs department) wear badges, carry guns, etc) No where in Michigan have I seen an EMT with a badge issued by a company. I have however seen several guys with wallet badges that they bought on their own, but these are the same guys that when authorized by their fire departments, are putting so many lights on their pov, that it looks like Christmas at Times Square! I never have needed a badge as an EMT, and can understand how that they could cause more trouble than they're worth. First off, its a target for the bad guys who equate badge with gun. Second, the OD pt will not talk to you because they're worried about going to jail for illegal drug use, and its just one more thing on the uniform to have to keep up with. In Michigan, you have have your State License, your County ID, and your name tag all required by the State. Then if you add anything like the stethescope, collar brass etc, its just more 'sparkle'. I've only used my badge as a Firefighter for ID purposes at accidents and if in civillian clothes (only where needed) I don't flash my badge to get into strip bars, get out of tickets, freebies at restaurants or anything like that. Thats not what its there for. In fact, very few people have ever seen my badge in my billfold!

Seen on the bumper on the car in front of me: Left side: Help stamp out redundancy Right side: Help stamp out redundancy

I'm presuming that your run report has already been turned in to the recieving facility, so therefore no addendum can be made to that. I would take the little 'surprise', follow the 'tag it/bag it/supervisor it, with a DETAILED incident report (keeping a copy of it for my own records) and let them do what is necessary (i.e. notifying law enforcement) In my humble opinion, when it comes down to the debate over which has more impact, legal vs ethical....legal has a way of completely twisting your whole future. (Try to outrun a background investigation with a criminal record)! Ethical violations can be dealt with by remedial training, sanctions, and suspension of the license (but it can be dealt with). A criminal charge (whether you're convicted or not) has a way of precluding you from certain positions for the rest of your career! Just my .02¢ on the matter.

DAMN! I wish I had thought of doing something like that! :sign5: :sign5: :sign5:

I disagree with #25. The merry-go-rounds that I've seen on playgrounds in my 42 years of life have always had the capability of going in BOTH directions. Only the carousel at the fairs typically run in a clockwise direction. 1. On a standard traffic light, is the green on the top or bottom? Bottom 2. How many states are there in the USA ? (Don't laugh, some people don't know) 50 3. In which hand is the Statue of Liberty's torch? Right X 4. What six colors are on the classic Campbell's soup label? Red, white, yellow, gold, black 5. What two numbers on the telephone dial don't have letters by them? 1,0 6. When you walk does your left arm swing with your right or left leg? (Don't you dare get up to see!) right 7. How many matches are in a standard pack? 20 8. On the United States flag is the top stripe red or white? red 9. What is the lowest number on the FM dial? 88 10. Which way does water go down the drain, counter or clockwise? clockwise 11. Which way does a "no smoking" sign's slash run? upper left to lower right 12. How many channels on a VHF TV dial? 12 13 On which side of a women's blouse are the buttons? right (as you wear the shirt) 14. Which way do fans rotate? clockwise 15 How many sides does a stop sign have? 8, its an octogon 16. Do books have even-numbered pages on the right or left side? left 17 How many lug nuts are on a standard car wheel? 5 18. How many sides are there on a standard pencil? 6, its a hexagon 19. Sleepy, Happy, Sneezy, Grumpy, Dopey, Doc. Who's missing? Bashful 20. How many hot dog buns are in a standard package? 8 21 On which playing card is the card maker's trademark? Ace of Spades 22 On which side of a Venetian blind is the cord that adjusts the opening between the slats? left, as you face the blinds 23. There are 12 buttons on a touch tone phone. What 2 symbols bear no digits? *,# 24. How many curves are there in the standard paper clip? 3 25. Does a merry-go-round turn counter or clockwise? BOTH

Happy Birthday Ambo!

(knows I'm gonna take fire from all sides on this one) I've set up my own personal 'jump kit' (yes, at my own expense) I've been known to stop at incidents and checked for injuries, called and started EMS rolling to that location. I've also found that most emt's are willing to replace what you've used out of your own personal jump kits from the supplies on the rig. I dont mind helping others when I have the skills and knowledge. This is, after all, why I became an EMT. I don't view this behavior as a 'Johnny Gage/Roy DeSoto complex' ... if I were injured and needed assistance (been there done that) and an off duty EMT (regardless of their level of licensure) stopped to help me, I would be grateful beyond words. There is too much of this 'me first, screw you isolationism going on today, and we need to get back to things like 'The Golden Rule' and 'love your enemies as you would love yourself' mentality. Have you ever noticed that when those values were actually in place and used on a daily basis, how much nicer things were? Now, I've stated that I do posess my own jump kit (stocked at the MFR level), but I don't always carry it. I don't worry about getting sued because I do not try to perform procedures that are above my licensure. The Good Samaritan Act should free me from prosecution as long as I do not violate the guidelines of my licensure level. Since I dont carry airway adjuncts, IV's, etc...I cannot violate any of my state protocols. (those things are for the on duty crews)

Paramedics save lives, and EMT's save paramedics. Yes, thats how the saying goes.... But I've heard a 'continuation' to that.... Instructor/Co-ordinators take all the credit!