Katiebug

Good points, and I understand where you are coming from, Mike and Chbare. Chbare, you are well spoken and an educator by nature. I have learned a lot from you posts. Thanks for that. However, scientific absolutes are often shown not to be absolute at all. What we think we know often becomes what we thought we knew. It never hurts to go back over something if the answer is counterintuitive. We haven't begun to get to the meat of it though, because I'm getting shut down before I can get there. What I'll be doing is going over the vaccines ingredient by ingredient and discussing the purpose and effects of each one. I wanted to start that yesterday, but got derailed. That's where the meat is. That's where my points are. There's no end to the discussion without that, because no one can prove either side. Mike, you have attempted to assassinate my character before I could say much of anything. Look back over the thread. I'm asking you to prove me wrong, but you have to let me put something out there first. Yeah, I've stated my idea, but we're already arguing without any reasoning put forth. Mike, I thought you were better than that. You come across as one that's looking for a fight. That may or may not have been your intention, but trust me when I tell you that you are overly aggressive. Shut me down. It's what I'm asking you to do. But at least let's get into the conversation first. You can't shut someone down based on a preface. You have to read the story first. I've got too much going on to be here today except maybe sporadically. I look forward to getting this kicked off tomorrow. If, in the end, we haven't arroused new suspicion of an old suspect, we will still have profited. Firstly, those of us that can't let it go may be able to move on to other possibilities. Secondly, all of us will have learned things we didn't know before. It's a win/win. Let's get back on track. Mike, I'm not now, nor may I ever be prepared to argue with you. Even if I'm right, I believe you could make it sound wrong. So in that respect, I give up. You win. But I will stand up for myself, and sometimes I do disagree with you. I look forward to getting your ideas on my thoughts, which I will start sharing tomorrow. Educate me. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I seem to be missing posts in-between my posts. I'm new at the Tapatalk thing. Plus I'm at work and posting between calls. Thanks for the comments. Like I said, I haven't had anyone to talk to. That's the perspective I haven't had, Dwayne and Nypaemt39. I want to know everything, please. Yep. Let's get this out of the way. Mike, you are aggressively confrontational. I'm not here to challenge you on your home turf. If I was, I'd pick an argument I knew I could win. Even then, I wouldn't be fully confident, because I think you're smarter than me. And I think I'm pretty smart. This is not an argument. It's me trying to figure out something I can't let go of. I've read about autism until I'm tired of reading about autism and I still find myself thinking about it. Something is nagging me and I need to know what it is. How do you feel about that? Well... I don't care. Seriously. If you want to debunk anything I say, that's good because I want that too. Just don't do it maliciously. I'm not going to deal with that. I need to show what I've learned. I think it's is more in depth that what's being put out there. It's not new, it's a deep look at an old argument. But I will do it on my schedule, not yours. You will not derail me. If you continue to try, I will abandon this thread and use other media to communicate with people that will talk to me. Saying, "I thought you were better than that", has no effect on me whatsoever. It's a bullshit psych play to make me sad that you're disappointed in me. I've seen you use it before. You may be smarter than me, but I didn't just fall of the turnip truck. Am I wasting time talking about this? Okay, who's time am I wasting? Certainly not mine. The researchers? No, they're not reading EMT City threads. Besides, I'm just another layperson collecting data. The people going through it? They seem to be looking for answers, too. If they are willing to spend their time helping me understand and talking through my thoughts, why do you have a problem with it? I didn't put the chip on your shoulder. If you're looking for someone to knock it off, look somewhere else. My purpose here is to take another look at something that's answer didn't satisfy me. It's important to me and I'm willing to risk looking like a fool in front of my peers to talk about it. However, I will not stand for someone trying to make me look like a fool, as you are attempting to do. Back off, man. Debunk me, disagree with me, whatever. But be civilized. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dwayne, you are correct that much of this data is being recorded/reported by untrained parents. You are correct that many of the methods are unscientific. But look at the sheer volume of data. Look at the number of people reporting the same experiences. What does that tell us? What it tells me is that there is a huge population of parents that believe something did this to their kids. They also say that their kids showed no signs of any deficits prior to receiving vaccinations. That the deficits came soon after the shots. If it was a small group of people saying these things, I would not likely pay much heed to it. But it's a rather large group of people. And they all say the same thing. Are they all crazy? Hardly. There was an event that changed their children. The story is consistent from family to family. Telling them they're crazy feels to me like telling a fibromyalgia patient that their pain is all in their head. We were doing that a few years ago, remember? So I looked into it. I'm obviously not a doctor or professional researcher, but I like to think I'm a pretty smart guy. I'm fluent in Google. So now I have a pretty good understanding of what all sides are trying to say. Both have good points. Consider this: Can anyone here name a medicine that won't have any side effects on at least some people? How can any medicine, vaccine, or whatever claim to be beneficial to 100% of the people, 100% of the time? Especially one that contains known neurotoxins and is designed to break down the immune system? It can't. I would expect side effects in a large percentage of the population. It's the elephant in the room and people are pretending it's not there. Coincidentally, the first documented cases of autism were born at the same time soluble mercury was added to vaccines and seeds. Eight of the first eleven cases were born to educated, successful parents that had access to the new vaccines. The first European case is suspected of having been exposed to seed residue. Weird... That's my view, and there's plenty more reasons to believe it. Coming soon: "The anatomy of a vaccine, but with a lot more information". Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Mike, look again at the rate the incidence of autism has increased over the last 40-50 years and tell me that doesn't worry you more than heart disease. We know what causes heart disease. We have things we can do about it. Perspective? Mike, polio didn't affect this many people at its peak. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_poliomyelitis That's perspective. And the numbers are still going up. The numbers in the ratio keep getting closer together. Yes, I believe we have a crisis. Who in their right mind wouldn't? Perspective is good. I believe I've got a grip on mine. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We will get there, Mike. I'd like to present ideas in a logical order. Things will inevitably spin out of control if I don't, and the spirit of the thread will be lost. There has to be some order to the conversation, so let's do this a piece at a time. Thanks for chiming in. I always look forward to your posts. Sometimes I think you're a complete whacko, but you are a very intelligent whacko and I always understand your logic. Whether I agree with you or disagree with you, I value your input. Welcome to the conversation. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I completely understand. For what it's worth, I agree with her. I do believe that vaccine adjuvants cause severe reactions in some people. I know this conversation has been had on the city before, but since autism is still one of the biggest epidemics we face as a society today, obviously it's not resolved. The trend isn't just alarming, it's terrifying. If people were getting swine flu at the same rate we're seeing autism, well... you can guess what the world's reaction would be. This merits further discussion. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I messed up and this all came out as a quote. My messages are mixed in with Dwayne's quote. I marked my responses with a bullet. Good. I'm glad you're talking to me. People tend to run away when they realize the same old arguments don't work for them anymore. I need someone that does more than rattle on about what the government says. I have questions. And a theory or two. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Richard, I didn't see your post until after I posted. Please invite your friend to join the discussion. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Here's some food for thought: http://m.upi.com/m/story/UPI-52721127847792/ Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

1. Any level of trauma? Then no. They're not as fragile as that. 2. I always start at least a hep lock on trauma patients. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I had a patient with what I thought was SVT on one occasion. En route to the ED I pushed adenosine twice. 6 & 12. Both times there was absolutely no change on the monitor. I told the attending at the hospital what I had done. He said when that happens, it's usually an underlying rhythm of a fib. He pushed cardizem and fixed it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Vorenus, I have my iPhone in an Otter Box and carry it everywhere. I'm typing this message on it. I've been carrying iPhones for about three years and have never broken one. Otter Box is the answer. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Where the hell were you? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I can only help you a little, as my experience with that is limited to a newspaper reporter taking pictures of us doing an extrication. I'm somewhat tunnel visioned when I'm working on something, so I quickly forgot he was there until I saw our pic in the paper pulling the patient out of the car. It made no impact on the scene whatsoever. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for the kind words, Dwayne. But I don't deserve any of that. I'm just looking for answers. It's a puzzle that someone like me has almost zero chance of piecing together, but I can't help thinking about it anyway. Honestly, I think it stems from a fear I have for my own children. I don't know how well that will be received, but it's the truth. It's happening way too much. Something is doing this to us. It's genetics. No, it's the adjuvants in the vaccines. Wait, now they've added squaline. No, no.... It can't be the vaccines, it's got to be... fluoride. You know that stuff is bad ju ju. So after months of research, my family avoids fluoride. Unless you (collectively) have done an exhaustive study on it yourself, don't argue that one with me. I'll eat you alive. I don't know what to do about vaccinations for my kids. The vaccine schedule as it stands is a complete assault on an infant. How can the benefit outweigh the risk when the efficacy of vaccines can't be proven in the first place? Again, you'd better be well read to argue that, too. By God, it's something. I haven't had anybody to talk to about it. For all the talk about not being protocol monkeys, I'd sure like to see some questioning of the establishment here. Don't be afraid to go out on a limb. What have you got to lose by exploring possibilities? Even if you don't think an idea is plausible, consider it an excersize in abstract thinking. Definitely read the counter studies to what the government puts out. Edited because I had more to say. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm all ears. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly right. I am a medical professional. I heal people's bodies. Sometimes their hearts. I don't police them or turn them in for having a bag of weed. I lecture them about taking better care of themselves and do my best to fix their problem. If I wanted to be in the line of fire, I'd reenlist. Don't they realize that once criminals become comfortable with our presence, they will start shooting us for our narc boxes? If this becomes the norm, I'm going to work in a hospital. EMS doesn't pay enough for that shit. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk