Moosey

That is what's important; I'm just curious.

Just curious as to what the guy:gal ratio is in your service, or your area. Or your squad for that matter. Crew too.

Lemonlime, Sorry. Must be the New York arrogance in me. And you haven't been trying to do anything of the sort--I've just met people who have, and it bugs me. I was never saying anything about your personal feelings on it--I have no right to. Just venting. If any of that offended you, got under your skin, etc., you have my deepest apologies. Friends? Moosey

Lemonlime, I don't mean to cheapen anyone's opinions or their grief--everyone feels strongly about this. I just dislike when tourists from, say, Arkansas, who didn't risk anybody, who didn't know anyone who was nearby or should have been there, who never had to deal with the consequences, tell me "Oh, I felt so bad on 9/11." I realize they felt grief. But their grief cannot begin to be compared to mine, just as mine cannot begin to be compared to that of my sister (who was very close), or to that of the FDNY and NYPD officers who lost their partners and were there. Sure, people have a right to grieve about 9/11--it was a terrible thing. But I get sick to my stomach when people from thousands of miles away attempt to compare how they felt about it to how I did. I'm thankful that your family was okay. I'm not talking about those who suffered direct fear of harm to them and theirs; I'm talking about people who never were at risk, who weren't close. It's different seeing it on CNN than it is to walk down the street and see dozens of cops on the way to the train. The subtle reminders haunted us for months--they still do. There was a cop car parked a block from my house that was stopping any van or truck on its way to deliver goods, checking for bombs, and it stayed there for quite some time -- ever day for over two years, as I recall. There are some things people simply could not have experienced without being here, and I just don't like it when people from thousands of miles attempt to regale with their tales of grief. They simply weren't here. And that's okay. But don't try to tell me you (and I mean the unaffected 'you', not lemonlime in particular) feel the same grief as I do. It wasn't your community, it wasn't your home. You never dealt with the smell or the taste, the fear, the transit problems, the massive number of cops on the street, the National Guardsmen in Times Square and Penn Station. Nobody's life changed to the extent it did here--except possibly in DC (I wouldn't know). So I accept your sympathies. But not your grief. As for the question of flag-waving, anyone can wave a flag if they like, or say patriotic things. That's not what bugs me. What bugs me is the assumption that if you DONT do those things, you're UNpatriotic. I don't like the idea that just because I disagree with the leaders of the government, it means I'm unamerican or unpatriotic. I love my country as much as anybody else. But I don't blindly follow. When the 'more-patriotic-than-thou' atmosphere arises--like after 9/11--people who support debate are shouted down by those who blindly follow the leaders. It's not thought-out patriotism that I mind--I don't mind anybody's beliefs as long as they're thought through, though I may disagree with their conclusions. But it's patriotism out of fear that bothers me--'patriotism' bred of fear and distrust, and the urge to agree with something greater than onesself. That's not patriotism, that's blind allegiance, and terrible things happen when leaders are followed without questioning. Examples in history are all too easy to find. And THATS what I meant by the Franklin quote, by the way.

USAF, I don't know how to feel about your reply to the Bin Laden question. On a moral level, of course I agree with you. On a moral level, of course I would save the five people rather than my sister. On a moral level, of course I'm a perfect human being. But let me spin it this way. I live in New York City. I was 14 the day the twin towers came down, and I will freely admit I cried like a baby. My birthday was the following day, and for it as a little 'present' I got a day off of school for transit problems and the smell of nearly 3,000 dead bodies (along with God else knows what) coming in through my window. I was too young to do anything about it at the time. I couldn't take a CFR class, I couldn't take an EMT class. If I had been down there there would have been NOTHING I could have done--and I was trapped in the Bronx till 4 that day anyway, before the transit got back up. Well, now I'm 18. In a couple weeks I start my EMT course, and I will be immensely glad for it. EMS is something I've wanted to do for a long, long time, and I am grateful that I will finally have the chance to do something worthwhile with my life instead of rotting away in school (yes, I do plan to continue college, but I will also be an EMT part-time or volunteer). But a part of my city died that day--a part that has never truly been restored. Yes, we've moved on, but there are still the little reminders--the "look for suspicious packages" signs, the mass-casualty exercises in the subway, the fact that there are National Guardsmen in Penn Station and Times Square. A part of New York died that day, and perhaps the country too. I never liked people in the Midwest waiving yellow ribbons and American flags after 9/11--actually, I wasn't so keen on the flag-waving here either, because what good does a flag do except breed a 'more-patriotic-than-thou' atmosphere?--because they simply were not there. They didn't see the black clouds with their own eyes. They didn't see the people crying, didn't have to wonder where their children were, or their families*. Most people who waved flags and shouted murder didn't lose a family member, didn't know anyone who lost family. I knew two people who were supposed to be in the towers that day and for some reason decided not to go to work. My sister went to Stuyvesant high school--blocks away from the WTC site. She and (to my knowledge) everyone from her school got home okay, but we were TERRIFIED for her. She and I are very close. There's nobody I trust more in the world than her, and I would go to the ends of the earth for her--whatever the cost--because that's what family does. We stand by each other, through thick and thin, and we protect each other. So my point is this. No, I would not save Bin Laden. In fact, I would probably run up that ladder and take whatever I had on me--an axe, if I were a fireman, an O2 can if an EMT, down to a pocketknife and shoes--and stomp the ever-loving sh*t out of him. I wouldn't care if I got censured or fired. I wouldn't care if we both burned. There are some things as human beings you do not do, and he's done many. I would have no compunction about ending his life--and I am a pacifist and a firm believer in due process and the legal system. If I were a perfect person, I would save Bin Laden and the 5 strangers. But I'm not. I don't know if that makes me weak--if it makes me unfit for EMS. But I know that if either of those situations arises, my sister will live, and Bin Laden will die. Because I could never live with myself any other way. So USAF, I don't know where you come from or where you live. I don't know if you lost family at the WTC--I'm thankful I didn't. I respect your views, and in a perfect and intellectual world, I would do the same thing as you. I don't have any problem with your choice in this, and I'm not trying to be confrontational--not at all. But there are some things I feel very strongly about--and those two issues are among them. Though in all fairness, I might pick up that telephoto lens before I went into the building... I love a good picture :wink: Though, speaking as a photographer, a wide-angle from up close would be better--more fire, better coverage, and my hands would be a lot closer to his neck. My father always says the old Nikon F's were cameras you could beat someone to death and then take their picture with--we have one sitting around, I might as well test the theory :twisted: *NOTE: I AM NOT TRYING TO CRITICIZE PEOPLE FOR PATRIOTISM. I love my country just as much as anybody. Thought-out patriotism--patriotism in the Jefferson/Washington/Adams sense of the word, that understands that speech and debate is a necessary thing to improve a society--I support wholeheartedly, even when what people say disagrees with what I say. What I don't support is blind patriotism--blind allegiance to a government without thinking it through, or simple mass agreeance with those in charge. In the days just after 9/11, anyone who criticized the Powers That Be were considered by most people to be unAmerican (whatever that means)--which is the greatest travesty in a country that prides itself on freedom of expression. If anyone wants to disagree with anything I've said, I welcome debate. I welcome a discussion of ideas. I am open to your thoughts and I don't criticize people for their opinions--as long as they have been thought through. I welcome your comments, and I hope I've not offended anyone with what I've said. This is a deeply personal topic for everyone, especially those from the City. People feel very strongly about it, just as I do. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't listen to each others' ideas and hear them--maybe even heed them. I'm sorry that USAF had to post something about people having problems with what he said, and in an almost-confrontational manner. I'm not attacking him. I'm not attacking anyone. I apologize for the length of this rant, and hope that it has given others a different view on the subject. I again would like to say that I welcome debate, public or private, if someone has something to add to my views or whether they'd like to criticize me for it. I, unlike governments I could name, am not afraid of free speech. Moosey "They that would sacrifice essential liberties for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety"--Ben Franklin

We're not discussing two married individuals--we're not even discussing two people living in the same apartment. We're discussing two college students--undergrads, even--taking (separate) classes and working EMS part-time. So I don't think the too-much-of-each-other issue would be a problem. I suppose this would make it HIGHLY unlikely to be able to get identical crews though. And you guys are right, it would completely invalidate the "so how was YOUR day, dear?" conversation. I guess it would be kind of unprofessional, on thinking about it more, though the two of us are perfectly capable of being sweet in our down time and serious when it comes to working together. We are both highly motivated towards EMS, and both realize that it takes priority over our love life, particularly in a work environment. I thank you all for your replies and your insight.

So I and my girlfriend, with whom I am very much in love, are both attempting to pick up EMT-B certs. over the summer. The idea would then be to have both of us work part-time as EMTs and be students over the following semesters to help pay tuition or for an apartment or some such. Either of the places we would wind up working (depending on a transfer app succeeding or not) would be fairly busy areas--the Portland OR area, or Stony Brook NY (SBVAC if possible, SBU Hospital if not). Ideally, we would wind up working on the same crew, eliminating the eating up of personal time that work would involve (since work time and personal time would be mixed). In all honesty, how likely would it be that we would wind up being able to schedule being on the same shift and/or crew? How hard would it be to arrange shifts that way in a fairly large system or company? Would others mind sharing their experiences with attempting to move shifts around with EMT systems, especially to be with a sig. other? Thanks to all below; your input is much appreciated. Also... and I'm not trying to be rude, I'm trying to be practical--does anyone care to take a stab at average base pay for an EMT-B working part-time? If not, or if people think it's rude to ask, I apologize, but economics is an important science when it comes to tuition... Thanks in advance for your input.