akflightmedic

I will never tell...

Everything in life can not be serious my friend. However, I did answer your first question with all seriousness, as for the second question, remember it was YOU who did the asking. Maybe it needs rephrasing. Always consider your audience when asking such questions of importance, especially the ones who are in EMS as we are a bunch of rude, crude, gruesome lot.

No ass reaming will be allowed as that was not the purpose of this post. If I did that or allowed someone else to do it, I would never get any truthful, honest reponses. Who am I to tell you that is right or wrong? Make your own decision and be prepared to live by it, that is all I ask. Thanks for some of the varying replies I am getting now. I know Dust said it first but I kind of expected it out of him..lol.

Answer to question #1. I like the idea, it is great for some areas. In fact, Lake -Sumter EMS has an equestrian team for standbys. Answer to question #2. Although this is personal, I do like to mix it up and occassionally allow her to mount me. 8)

Sorry Michael, I did not present my entire set up for when I deliver this lesson but rest assurred it is a great lesson. I just did not wish to weigh in too heavy on my opinion early in the discussion as it may or may not sway others from posting what they really feel. This kind of exercise is also best conducted when you are able to view the body language as well as their responses. Often more is said when one is not speaking. But I feel this exercise is relevant, as it shows the neophytes that not only are they trusted with people's lives, personal care, etc, but they can also have an effect in areas they never thought of. This is not a "How To Defraud" course but merely an eye opener for them to realize they are going to enter many new situations and for them to be prepared. I try to present as many angles as possible during my course delivery so they may have a grasp on everything possible they may encounter. We have such awesome responsibillity and in order not abuse that, we must be aware of what it is. While most instructors skim through the ethics chapter, I delve deeper. I try to show them, teach them the differences between sympathy/empathy, and of course ethics. I present many different exercises and scenarios just to make them think. It is not a "game", but it is a tool to use to further evaluate and develop sincere, dedicated EMS professionals. Edit: I missed your link the first time. I like that. Yes, I am no expert but the exercise on the surface seems to always turn out fine and the students really enjoy it. A lot of positive feedback, because if not themselves to worry about, they now know this type of behavior can/does exist in our career and they are more apt to be on the lookout for it as well. We have to watch out for each other out there, sometimes that may mean we are required to be a coworker or friend's little voice of reason.

I agree with the above post. No big deal. See, now that one was not as hard to think about yet they both are along the same line and involve the same morals, ethics, values, whatever.

Not to add any undue stress to anyone or to confuse any general public members that may run across this site, this is a test that I have used among others in my EMT and medic classes. It is merely me probing other's brains, examining their thought processes, and then me saying "ok, thanks for sharing". Maybe I should publish the results some day on what this test demonstrates as how it relates to different levels of care providers and compare their answers at start of term versus end of term. It is an interesting process how people will change their answers as the story changes. Start off with is it ok to take money from a patient. then compound that by saying he is a drug dealer, you are broke, blah blah blah. As the story changes, some people begin to rationalize their decisions after changing them or they empathize with the hardluck EMT in the story and they justify it by that. As we go through this process, I like to wonder why they change their answers. Why does worsening the situtaion make the theft anymore acceptable? I will point out unscientifically of course, the answers vary greatly with the above mentioned groups and time of term.

I appreciate the responses from everyone. Its interesting to see what the majority say they would do. However, I believe this is one of those scenarios that you truly can not answer until you walk in those shoes. It is impossible to know what your mindset would be or become if you were in a position of being beat down year after year, life becoming more extreme day by day and then something like this falls upon you. Would you change your mode of thinking, feelings, beliefs? What if I made the situation more extreme? Lets say your car was just reposessed, there is no city transit system and without your vehicle, you will lose your job which will only further comoplicate your already financially troubled life. You have no mode of transportation whatsoever to continue to get to work(you have already tried everything.) Its just drug money. Do you take only what you need and donate the rest, or do you continue to suffer in silence knowing you did right by turning it in?

Dang it. Another Michael post I can't access.

Yes, it is December already. You have been busting your hump all year long, barely getting by. You work overtime after overtime in the not so pleasant neighborhoods. Every paycheck, you go pay off the payday loan knowing all too well you will get another one between now and next payday. You have great kids and a great wife who you would do anything in the world for. You want them to reap the rewards of your hard work, yet something always seems to come up and set you back. Then it happens, you get toned out again to crack alley for an assault. PD is on scene and it is secure. You roll on in to find your patient unconcious. He is a well known drug dealer and evidently he angered another dealer who knocked him out with a baseball bat. It is so busy, you have no backup for who knows how long and the weather is too bad for air support. The patient is maintaining his airway on his own so there is no great need for backup anyways. You and your partner decide to cspine, board and get the heck out of dodge. En route to the ER, your partner is busy watching the road. You apply O2 and start your IVs as well as getting vitals. Everything is stable, he is just unconcious. You start checking his pockets for positive ID and lo and behold you find a wad of cash in his front pocket..20s, 50s and 100s. You check the other pockets for ID and find two more pockets stuffed with cash. You glance up and notice your partner never saw a thing as he is watching the road not the rearview mirror. Holding all this cash, many thoughts race through your mind. You think of your kids, wife, bills, the season to give and recieve...what would you do? I ask you to dig deep and answer honestly, there is no wrong answer as the choices you make are your own. I suspect I will get a lot of "honest" answers of I would turn it in, but I will sit back and see what happens.

This thread has run its course...

I hope this site lasts many years and I am still a part of it. I aslo hope Timmy is too becaus this kid is a blast. He is something special and is only going to get better as he ages. I love it!

http://www.nypost.com/seven/11032006/news/...san_edelman.htm Hopefully her lab results will bring closure for many others suffering the same fate.

I like that. Wish we had those kind in the US.

I have done that many times and it is a great idea, except when there is a center console that requires you to llift the patient or a gearshifter in the way. Other than that, it works great especially for the reason you mentioned.

"drivers of the vehichles. One of them was up and about, no problem, his vehichle didnt have any damage. The other vehichle had smashed into a light pole. The airbag had deployed, and there as a starburst crack on the windshield. The drivers side door was messed up, so it would not open. The Patient had a laceration on her forehead from striking the windshield. There was a passerby (a vol. emt from a diffrent town) was in the vehichle maintaing manual c-spine stabilization. The patient was alert and responsive, she remebered getting into the car and driving, but she did not remember the exact details of the accident. The only thing she was complaining about was head pain. " Sounds lke the car door was already wasted, waiting for it to be popped open is no big deal. Roof flap, maybe , maybe not I wasnt there. Starred the windshield so that answers the seatbelt question, doesnt remember the accident, hmmmm. Over treating, I dont think so. She is stable but why pull her up and over and make her lift herself up? If you are going to do this, why backboard at all?

Much better, thank you. I am of the same thoughts as you. I would have let rescue pop the door for several reasons. 1. Mechanism of injury/starred windshield,etc. 2. Why not? Let the ricky rescues play every now and then. I rather them practice on "non emergencies" and be proficient rather them trying to figure it out when I really need them. 3. There was no rush so why risk further injury when the others are on the way. You were responsible on this call. You voiced your concerns only to have them ignored. As the junior man that sometimes happens and it is not always right. Howeveri f it were me and he refused to do what I felt was absolutely right and it could potentially harm the pt, I would have called the supervisor on the radio or advised the ALS unit of the situation. I certainly would not ride this pt in or do the report as my name would not be attached other than as an assistant on scene. I would insist if he continues with the method he chose, he does the ride in and report. At least should any adverse legal procedings take place, you can say you did all you could. I also would have downgraded the responding units to nonemergency mode.

Ok this would go a lot easier if you would tell the story, witholding you opnions, let us insert ours and then you can tell us yours instead of this guessing game because it will lead to nothing but confusion.

KEEP IT NICE PLEASE

I am still laughing at "the most horrifying death scream" comment. I find that overly dramatic and imagine it comes from someone who has NOT taken care of femur fxs. Yes it is painful and yes I have treated many including most recently an 8 year old girl that fx her femur on a trampoline, but never have I heard the horrifying death scream. All she did was whimper and cry a little.

>Phone call home transcribed for your reading pleasure. > "Hello?" > "Hi honey. This is Daddy. Is Mommy near the phone?" > > "No Daddy. >She's upstairs in the bedroom >with Uncle >Paul." > > >After a brief pause, > > > > > Daddy says, "But >honey, > you haven't got >an Uncle Paul." > > > "Oh yes I do, >and he's upstairs in the >room >with Mommy, > right now." > > Brief >Pause. > > > "Uh, okay then, > this is what I want you to do. >Put the >phone >down on the table, >run upstairs >and knock on the bedroom door and shout to >Mommy >that Daddy's car >just pulled into the driveway." > > > > "Okay Daddy, >just a >minute." > > > >A few minutes later >the little girl comes back to the phone. > > >"I did it Daddy." > > > > > "And what happened >honey?" >he asked. > > > > > "Well, Mommy got all scared, > jumped out of bed >with no >clothes on > and ran around screaming. >Then she tripped over the rug, >hit her head on the dresser >and now she isn't moving at >all!" > > > >"Oh my God!!! >What about your Uncle Paul?" > > > >"He jumped out of the bed >with no >clothes on, too. >He was all scared and he jumped out of the back window > and into the swimming pool. > But I guess he didn't >know that you took out the water > last week to clean it. >He hit the bottom of the pool >and I think he's >dead." > > > > > > > ***Long Pause*** > > > > > > ***Longer Pause*** > > > > > > ***Even Longer Pause*** > > > > > > > Then Daddy says, >"Swimming pool? . . .. > > Is this 303-486-5731?" >

The eagle flies high at noon... (I just wanted to see what piece of wit Michael will offer now with a very random statement from me, I am sure it will be entertaining)

Yeh, he snuck it in on me...

The time has come to end this thread. We all learned a valuable lesson, who is credible and who is not.

Please tell me that was a joke. I like the part about putting more money towards factory jobs and GED courses. How about encouraging them to finish high school first instead of worrying about the GED and bringing higher level industry in...lol. Do I need to move this to funny stuff?