tskstorm

Just a side note to all, well mostly to anthonym83. Never assume your partner has anything, and I don't think any of us should be checking our partners pockets to see what they have in there, thats kinda creepy. Of course both people are not going to o2 bags, and 2 separate stair chairs, but none of those things go on our belts eh? I also work in NYC, we all remember the post about the FDNY crew stopping while having a patient, Do we remember that the SOP and policy is: If going into a call and get flagged down by someone we must split our personnel. We get dispatched for a fx arm, and we get flagged down for a cardiac arrest and were on the 15th floor in the projects with a non-working elevator. (I'm not a medic so I wouldn't have to run down for a monitor, but if/when I am a medic I know I'd feel like a knucklehead for not having my gear with me, and having to run up and down 15 flights of stairs while the patient deteriorates waiting for me to get the monitor) To help out the fellow NYC provider .. check out a scorpion, it is designed for people who need small, lightweight, high bright flash light .. http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/s...scorpionled.htm This is really the only thing I can see to help lighten your load, everything else is pretty standard, or not really room to improve as i can see.

The way our PCR is written the hippa is on the front, there is NO medical information on that side. there is also an explanation paragraph explaining, it, and we explain it as well. Never run into the problem of them wanting to read the back, as they are not signing anything on the back.

That is soo truet

Glad we can agree on something

Well your last rule is a little unfair, what about 17 year olds? they can have strong political opinions, but they can not vote by law. Isn't fair they cant complain, this might be a small exception to the law but an exception indeed. I do agree that every contribution helps. When you see a donation can next to a register, don't you usually drop in the change after you broke a dollar. Every bit helps.

She can get them from the college book store but they will be alot more expensive, she is trying to get them as cheap as possible.

no sense in French, or Italian either. lol

I'm not claiming they are hero's. All I'm saying is the policy that stated what their "duty" was to do, got done. They did nothing out of the ordinary. The gun was shear happenstance. I don't see where they are being wankers, I don't see where they go along with it or speak about it at all. I did a few google searches looking for more information on this topic and came up empty.

NY, NYC, and FDNY's policy, sop, and protocols state they were supposed to stop. I know your new so I wont get on ya for not reading the thread before posting. Bottom line debate the policy not the crew's action.

best game ever

Its called bloons, not balloons, but it does involve balloons lol. try and old fashioned link http://gamesloth.com/play.php?game=bloons

well Yes given most of what you said could be considered accurate, although certainly not all of it. Further more, arguments could be made that driving past an mva/mvc is negligent and abandonment. Perhaps you are leaving the original patient with 1 tech instead of 2, 50% of the total amount of care, but you are also leaving the 2nd patient, 1 tech instead of none, so what is that a 100% increase? The FDNY crew (Believe its been said before is one of if not the largest EMS system in the US) has a policy/procedure/protocol to stop they did just that, the "heroic" actions would be being cool headed while in a dangerous situation, keeping there patient stabilized, and trying to stabilize the new patient as well. I don't think thats all that heroic, just their job, but I don't agree with the way you all jumped on the crew before, trying to discredit the policy. If the parents of the child decide to sue I hope someone follows this closely and can report the results. The results of the court case will most likely end most of this argument. If the parents of the Child don't sue, I guess they didn't feel they were mistreated in anyway.

well its not really MY theory, its NYS, NYC's and FDNY's ... so blah to you p.s. the policy/protocol in nyc and nys says they have to stop, and you all agree to follow the protocol that says your " out of service " if you have a patient on board, so why not comply with the protocol/policy of stopping like they currently say to.

It has been asked for many times, please provide past precedent of this protocol getting disregarded in NY. I'm fairly certain that if such past precedent existed the protocol/policy would no longer exist. In my theory both patients get care and treatment.

FDNY and NY policies, basically state you only need 1 EMT per patient. MCI happens does your partner stay at your hip or do you work separately on different patients? When there is a patient in back of the ambulance, how many EMT's are there? There is only 1 required. So you can question the policy, but you certainly can not question the crew or their actions. Saying what you would do or think should be done is irrelevant, if you choose to disregard a protocol/policy you would lose your certification. So for everyone here who has said they should not get out and start treatment would all lose your certifications, in NY, and thats that. Anyways this thread is getting silly.

All that stuff is irrelevant, how was the paramedic driving supposed to know the guy was going to pull the gun ?

So you roll up to an MVA, unknown number of patients, unknown cause, unknown everything. Hop out of your ambulance grab your stuff, get to the car, you find a male conscious but pinned in by the steering wheel. Vital signs are stable 120/80, 80 bpm, 18 resp reg, ctc normal normal normal, A+0 x 3, GCS of 15, NO C.C. So now this is your patient that your committed too right? What about the 9 month old who was ejected through the windshield hit the asphalt, rolled into a ditch, vital signs of 70/30, 40 bpm, 8 resp labored, ctc cool pale sweaty, unresponsive, GCS of 8 So i guess we leave this patient at the scene ? and just concentrate on the 30 year old male, because thats our patient we committed too ? Thats what I'm getting from all of you, once your committed to a patient you can't help any other patient regardless of they're status or priority. We don't triage anymore huh ? Although I might be on a fine line, Once an MVA is witnessed there are 2 patients the one in the back, and the one in the MVA, don't we have a responsibility, to triage, and stabilize all patients while waiting on another unit to back you up and transport 1 patient while we transport the other ? Duty to Act In some situations, EMT-Bs have a duty to act. Often this duty is very clear, such as when you are riding an ambulance dispatched to a call. Other times— such as when you are off-duty in another ambulance district—you may not have a legal duty to act, but you may be morally obligated to provide care or take action until EMS arrives. In most cases, for both legal and moral reasons, it is better to provide care than not to. Brady sample chapters online http://www.bradybooks.com/catalog/content/.../0130945595.pdf Also from brady Abandonment and Negligence Te rminating care of a patient without making sure the patient is in the hands of a provider at the same or higher level of training is considered abandonment. Negligence is deviation from the accepted standard of care that results in injury to a patient. There are four components to a successful negligence action or lawsuit: *The EMT-B had a duty to act. This means that the E M T-B was in a situation through employment, position in a volunteer squad, or other position in which the EMT-B is re q u i red to provide care and . . . * The EMT-B breached, or failed to perform, that duty and . . . * Injuries, which may be physical or psychological, or damages were inflicted and . . . * The actions or lack of action caused the injury or damage. Another sample http://books.google.com/books?id=8Q2AliJrO...IwbiI#PPT121,M1 Read the medical ethics/ legal chapter, while your reading duty to act don't skip negligence. While The arguments here by most is that it is negligent to stop, I think its negligent, and patient abandonment to not stop.

While this is what I was taught as well, I can not find documentation to back it up. Do you have it ? You will also run into the argument that a 9 month old seizure pt is under C or U of the CUPS status

I'm confused, 1 EMT is in the back with the patient during transport, 1 is driving, how does the driver stepping out affect the patient in the back with the 1 tech. In this case there is 1 EMT-P, 1 EMT-B/P student With the seizure patient, and the driver stepped out to check for life threats on the accident patient. Where is the neglect or abandonment? The only thing I can see is perhaps the slower transport time, but this argument seems to be negated by everyone's argument of " it's NYC, how far away is another unit" its probably the same as the distance to the nearest ER. Both are pretty quick, but, I do believe if the accident patient needed ALS it would have taken a bit longer then a BLS unit. Also if you see the list of personnel who were on scene it was all ALS, maybe its relevant maybe not. I'm strumming through my protocols and reference guides to get a definitive answer but I'm not having any luck right now.

I've always been told, if you see an accident, and or are flagged down and you have a patient you must stop as long as your patient is not critical. Each technician will assume responsibility for one patient. It's a very hairy situation but thats always what i was told. Could be wrong though.

I thought the original idea, of airing out pet peeves about pt's dr's nurses etc was great. How many of us have had a good laugh after a call where someone is screaming and yelling at you that they " CAN'T BREATHE!" Or a dr. from a nursing home trying to claim a pt's gangrene had an onset of 1 day. it just magically appeared. Or many other funny happenings we see through our unique perspective as EMS providers. Now short after these came a bash dust thread, because he bashes us daily in our posts. Was all fun to poke fun at him all together ... and if anyone reads these threads they are far from being offensive. If you feel you aren't in with a clique, maybe you don't read enough threads because almost everything said has been public agenda somewhere in the forum. After that thread there is a plethora of bash user xyz and user abc, and if you look close enough of course these are going to be the more popular members, who post and reply consistently as well as participate in the chat frequently. Also please notice, no one who is a subject of these bash threads is complaining. Seems as previously mentioned someone is just hurt not to have there own bash thread and be involved in the bash threads. Want to talk overkill, what about all the happy birthday posts? I mean members made there own birthday threads. (me personally couldn't care less i like those threads too but the point here is that there are always going to be topics of threads that focus on one member more then another, point two, isn't it enough there birthdays are listed on the main page need a thread too ? OMG OVERKILL !!!!!!!!! [sarcasm]) Other overkill which I am guilty of is reposts. how many Murphy's law jokes have we seen? how many other ems jokes and poems we see over and over again. And as noted on the forum under funny stuff " Place your funny, non EMS or EMS related jokes, stories, links or pictures here. Caution: Adult Material May Be Located On This Board" Seems to me that by that description, as long as the poster deems the post to be funny it is permitted. Oh well drop my 2 cent's into the bucket.

I understand the frustration it drives me nuts too, who would have thought a monkey throwing darts at balloons could be so addictive.

[web:4798c45ff9]http://gamesloth.com/play.php?game=bloons[/web:4798c45ff9] This game amuses me, and drives me nuts all at once. This is the sequel to the first which i beat, this one, i can't get past level 12 care to join my insanity ?

the current " college" tee shirt is given out my Citibank for students who sign up for there credit card, I had one a while back.

KY, iodine, surgical lube, perhaps other substances that have yet to be identified ... they are getting smeared on windows, mirror's windshields, etc..... ya know I'm not a jerk I can play pranks like the rest, but a prank is usually done with mutual participants. I prank you, you prank me. Not random hit and runs, well okay, some. Seems this is becoming the standard. We didn't report it to NYPD, was reported to a supervisor who said get a bucket of water and wipe it off and get back out there. They later played the security tape and could not tell who had done it. Really no harm no foul, was curious if it was some sort of message, sort of a we're FDNY we don't like you go away type of thing.