emtannie

But PLEASE ALL don't slam a VETERAN and dust is just one of them on this site, cause if you haven't been there, been shot at and seen the true horror of watching comrades and the innocent brutally killed and burned raped or blown up or ..... worse getting tossed after the fact like used ass wipe .... that's wrong on so every level.

Squint - no one was slamming Dust regarding his service to his country. The point was that instead of just pointing out failures, it is up to those with the knowledge, education, and skills, those who have been around the block more than once, those are the people who need to provide input into solving issues, rather than just pointing out failures. The people with the kind of education and experience Dust has are the ones who need to be guiding and developing our newest members, or EMS WILL fail. This thread is not about the horrors of war... this thread is about the strike action in BC, and how we should be supporting our brothers and sisters there, not throwing stones at them.

Herbie, you make some good points. A strike is always a dangerous situation, and there is always collateral damage.

One of the dangers is that like any business, when a business starts to fail, it isn't the good employees who stay.... they are the ones capable of finding employment elsewhere, and generally have the drive to do so. In the long run, if things continue to circle the drain, the employer is left with those employees who are not the cream of the crop. This is a very real situation in this case, especially with the TILMA regulations which include EMS workers, making it easier for those certified in BC to move to Alberta to work in EMS (I am not getting into the whole ACP thing - I will let squint do that - he is so much better at that than I am).

That being said, we must remember the scope of this situation. This strike is regarding the ambulance service which covers an entire province. Some stats:

Serves a population of 4.3 million, and an area of 929 730 square kms (358,971 sq.mi).

3471 paramedics

470 ambulances

187 stations

9 aircraft

http://www.bcas.ca/assets/About/PDFs/Stati...mber%202008.pdf

The land base they cover is more than twice the size of California; the population may be less, but the coverage area is significant.

It is pretty easy to say "if you don't like the current wages where you work, then GET OUT, plain and simple."

So, if every medic was to quit, and move somewhere else, there would be a land base more than twice the size of california without emergency medical services. Although this would get the point across to the politicians involved here, the logistics of getting all 3500 medics out of BC is not possible.

The medics are working to provide a longer term solution; they are continuing to provide services to their communities - I have to give them credit for that.

Hey Squint! About time you got here! Thanks for your research – I didn’t know what Dan’s background is. I will be watching to see if he posts any more articles (especially after the long-winded email I sent him and his editor…. Lol)

Happi, thanks for your response – you are far more well-spoken and polite than I am. I had typed a long response which included “I am all out of hero cookies and don't play the martyr with me” but I read your response which is much nicer… LOL….

Thank you Dust, for reminding me why I don't spend nearly as much time at this site as I used to.

I find it interesting that some members on this site tout it to be such a wonderful place for learning, and discussion, and sharing of ideas, and yet when asked for their input on an issue or situation, their response is to be sarcastic and obtuse. I get frustrated when I see people who are trying to post facts and discussion get posts which are completely negative and not condusive to further discussion. I get frustrated when I see threads which are started for the sole purpose of pointing fingers but not trying to improve EMS. I get frustrated when threads which start out as educational get hijacked by those that refuse to provide quality input.

Why point out the failings of a service but then not be a part of the discussion to try to figure out what can be done to work that situation out? Why not be supportive of those members (who, by the way, many of them DO have university degrees - do not judge those you do not know). Why not discuss ways that members can work with the current situation and try to make changes?

OMG - that would be constructive dialogue.... can't have that.... it is sooo much easier to sit and point fingers at everyone else...

What are YOU doing to improve EMS? Are you working as an instructor, to educate the next generation of medics? Are you educating the public, so they realize we are not just ambulance drivers? Are you maintaining your own skills and certifications? Are you mentoring new medics? (and no, chat doesn't count as mentoring)

It is easy to be the one who sits back and points fingers at services that are having issues.... it is a far harder thing to try to make a difference and make EMS a profession, not just "labour." It is easy to say that the union is the problem, or the government is the problem or education is the problem, or financial constraints are the problem - that isn't rocket science.... it is far harder to come up with a viable solution to the current situation.

I didn't even claim to have all the info, much less any answers. And being pretty firmly anti-union, I don't anticipate ever caring enough to come up with such answers.

The timing is very definitely bad, with the economy disinclining politicians from giving money to any public employees. It's going to be very difficult to convince them or the general public to do so. In fact, the timing is probably the primary FAIL of your leadership. Seriously, what made them think this was a good time to try this?

For a relevant lesson history, see the results of the PATCO strike in 1981, where essential government employees struck, despite a law prohibiting it. I say this because really, that is the only hope you have of prevailing, and it is extremely risky. Although you're probably more likely to get away with it in the People's Republik of Canadia than PATCO was.

Regardless, I hope you set your demands ridiculously and impossibly high, because you're going to end up settling for something much, much less, if anything at all.

Well said, Happi...

Dust, I would also like to point out, that I find it interesting that you don't anticipate caring enough to come up with answers... so why do you care enough to post a thread "Canadian Strike FAIL"? I know you know your geography better than that. It appears that you like to throw stones, but don't want to be involved in quality discussion.

Also... this is a provincial strike, not a Canadian one. Your title assumes it is a national strike, which it is not. That would be no different than me posting a thread that says "USA EMS FAIL" when the article I refer to is only regarding California. You can be assured I would be openly slammed by the American members here if I posted in that fashion.

In your post directed back to me, you stated "the timing is probably the primary FAIL of your leadership" - again, not my province, so not my leadership.

Since I am from another province, I cannot directly work with CUPE and BCAS, so I have sent both letters informing them of my disgust with the way this has been handled, as well as a letter to the editor of the Courier-Islander where the initial article was from. Part of solving this is educating the public, and I hope that my letter gets printed, and I hope that some people take note and contact their provincial representative. Rather than point fingers, maybe EMS members elsewhere need to support their brothers and sisters.

Thank you docharris and rock_shoes for shedding more light on this situation.

-5 to Dust, who never offered any solution or constructive dialogue to this thread.

It is sad that EMS continues to be the "red-headed stepchild" of emergency services and the medical profession. I would hope that CUPE is attempting to educate the public of the inequalities and lack of respect that EMS gets.

The BC government should be embarassed that they have not appointed an arbitrator in over 2 months.

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/30934

http://blogs.bet.com/news/newsyoushouldkno...008-naacp-says/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/2027161.stm

http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/ne...nority-tv_x.htm

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,259579~3~6...ttoized,00.html

added this one for the troll factor

http://www.cracked.com/article_15677_9-mos...characters.html

Here is a racist that supports your view

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2003/sep/2...oadcasting.race

First site:

- the Onion? Are you kidding me? That is like reading the Weekly World News….

- The study quoted is not cited, with no link, and no source

- I googled “Center for Media and Social Research” and didn’t get a direct hit – you would think that if this was a reputable research institute, it would hit the first page of google

Second Site:

- NAACP says….

- Again, no sources, no studies, no facts cited

Third Site:

- Site is dated June 2002

- quotes a UCLA study, but no link to the study to review the criteria or details

- again, no direct citation

Fourth Site:

- posted in December, 2004

- article is based on Hispanic population, not black

- again, no direct link to study

Fifth Site:

- posted in 2002

- again, no link to the UCLA study

The “troll” site you posted was just that, not based on common sense. You are basing your argument on cartoons? That would be as big a stretch as saying that all four-legged creatures as are dumb as Wiley Coyote.

Be very careful who you point fingers at:

Your comment “Here is a racist that supports your view

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2003/sep/2...adcasting.race”

Please show me where I stated “There are too many blacks on TV.”

As well, consider the validity of your sources. This article was a 2003 article; again, outdated, and again, no study linked to the article to prove validity.

I want to be able to read the actual study; I want to see the actual criteria.

Had you presented this as a term paper, you would have received a 0 as you have not presented any factual information, no reference sources, and no current studies.

I find it incredibly interesting that although others have presented historical information proving that other ethnicities, races, and cultures have experienced the same, and worse atrocities as blacks, and in the much more recent past than American slavery, you refuse to acknowledge that fact.

I still have not seen any relevant discussion in your posts regarding other minority ethnic populations who also have historically been slaves or impoverished in America (again, refer to Chinese railroad workers) and have been successful, and your explanation for that.

Until you present actual facts, your information is opinion only; I have seen that you do not value other’s opinions – why do you expect me to value yours?

Find you a quiet place: Imagine a man in his 30s. He is forced to live in a dirt floor shack with no water or airconditioning. He is not allowed to be educated, he is beaten daily, he is not allowed to go to church, his wife and teenage daughter get raped by their owners on a regular basis, his kids are split up and sold to the highest bidder, he works a 14 hour day working crops in ubearable heat, he is a prisoner every day of his life.

scroll down

now imagine that he is a WHITE man !

"Oh and by the way Crotchity, I like your "white" avatar "

Why dont you go ahead with the next line: The future is looking bright because there are no blacks on the jetsons. But I guess you have not noticed that is wasnt until after the Cosby show, that blacks were allowed to have any significant roles on television, unless they needed someone to play a criminal.

Yes snoopy is white, the main character in 99% of all media is white; but there isnt any racism there !

Crotchity,

That very scenario was EXACTLY what happened to my family in Russia, and not 300 years ago, but less than 100 years ago, which is why some members fled to Canada in 1926 - what is your point? My family is considered "white" in your eyes.

I think you should also google "Chinese Railroad workers in America" and read some of the history there. I am not sure why you feel that "blacks" are the only people in the world who have ever been persecuted.

I find the comment "99% of all media is white" quite interesting. Do you have a statistic to back that up? Without even trying, I can think of many "black" movie and TV stars (Will Smith, Samuel L Jackson, Tyra Banks, Denzel Washington, Cuba Gooding Jr, Lawrence Fishburn, Morgan Freeman, just off the top of my head....).... many "black" news reporters... so if you have a statistic for that, I would like to read the study on that. Could you please post the reference for that? Instead of complaining about how there were no black roles, maybe you should be looking at how far "blacks" have come in the media in the last few decades.

Many posts in this thread have shown factual historical evidence that many other races and cultures had, and still have slavery today. You have chosen to completely ignore those posts in favor of a "my ancestors were treated poorly and now I want payback" mentality.

I encourage you to research these other countries, races, and cultures, and hopefully realize that your ancestors were not the only people in the world who suffered hardship at the hands of others.

I still don't understand this "ethnocentric testing" theory. If that was truly the case, that tests are skewed to the "white" majority, why do people of Chinese and Japanese descent do well on them? Why do people from Sri Lanka, Thailand, Brazil, and other countries do well on those exams? I still haven't quite figured out what "white" is either. Is "white" Irish? English? German? Dutch? Russian? Polish? Czech? I look at those and see different ethnic backgrounds.... so why is "ethnocentric testing" a valid complaint?

So, I did a little googling, and visited a few sites concerning the history of slavery in the USA.

According to several sites (which I can send you if you wish – just send me a pm) the first slaves arrived in about 1619. Slavery was abolished in 1774, with further laws enacted in the years following, including the 1819 law equating holding a slave punishable by death.

There were uprisings on both sides, over the next years… So, for about 10 generations, there was slavery in the USA.

In 1866, the 14th amendment to the American constitution defined anyone born in the US a US citizen, with all rights and freedoms associated.

So… In the last 6 generations, NO “African American” has been a slave. How many more generations is it going to take for that portion of the population to quit riding that pony? Europe has a long history of serfdom and slavery, up until WWII. I don’t see people of English, Irish, French, German, Russian, Polish, or other countries using race as an excuse for non-performance (I could write a dissertation on the treatment of Irish, or the Chinese when the railroads were being built, but that would sidetrack this thread).

Why are we seeing immigrants from war-torn countries, where they have had NO opportunity for education, come to North America and prosper, when they knew nothing about education, work, having food or a home before that time, who saw family members blown up, shot and disfigured, and people who were born and raised in the United States still cry the “something happened to my ancestors” excuse?

I don’t buy the “If someone has been told for generations that they CANNOT compete, that their failures, problems, and social problems are NOT their fault, wouldn't the logical response for many be to eventually accept that and agree with it?” It isn’t the problem of “whites” but it is a self-fulfilling prophesy of the “African American” population. THEY tell themselves that they are discriminated against. THEY tell themselves that they won’t be able to succeed. It isn’t the rest of the world telling them that – they are doing that to themselves. It is time for that population to take a good look at what they are telling their own children, and stop being a self-fulfilling prophesy. It isn’t white people telling black people that they cannot compete – it is the black population telling themselves that. How many generations have we had the “affirmative action” policies to assist with these populations getting ahead, and they still use the same excuse?

I still don’t see the reasoning in expecting less of a person because of something that happened over 150 years ago...

The reason we blacks score lower on standardized tests is because of a little thing called slavery -- you do remember that ? If you dont, let me also remind you that blacks were not allowed to attend white schools and universities until the 1960s. That puts us about 200 years behind whites in the US, and you have to remember that the first generations of black students did not have an educated family at home to assist them with their studies.

Then you also have to understand that many questions that you find easy on a standardized test, are not so easy for blacks. For instance:

Coffee cup is to saucer as napkin is to __________________ (table cloth, toaster, salad fork, or butter dish).

Sounds easy enough, but when you are a poor child (regardless of race), you may have never seen a coffee cup, saucer, table cloth, salad fork, or butter dish in your home.

I understand why whites do not like quotas, but at the same time, look around your department and see how many african american officers you have ?

If you go to Mcdonalds and they serve you the wrong hamburger, you dont go to Burger King for your refund. Whites held our race back for 100s of years in the US, now you have to pay for your wrongs. And yes I realize that it was not you personally who enslaved us, but it will take generations for us to catch up to whites.

I'm not buying the "little thing called slavery" excuse... and to me, that is what it is - an excuse. My family came to Canada from Russia, with nothing but the clothes on their back, in 1926. When they arrived in Canada, they were stripped of their clothes, hosed down, and all members, including women were "inspected" and had their heads shaved, to prove that they didn't have lice. My family were essentially slaves in Russia - the government came and took family members in the middle of the night, and those members were never seen again. They were not allowed education. They were not allowed to work certain jobs. They were not allowed to own property, vehicles, or other assets. Children were removed from their mother's homes at the whim of the government, and sent to work in camps and for armies, and wer never seen again.

They came to Canada where they were discriminated against, not allowed to get jobs, and not allowed to work or live in certain areas, because of the bias against Russians due to the war. They did not speak English. They could not communicate. They had no resources.

Members of my family starved. Members of my family suffered debiltating illnesses due to malnutrition and poor environment. Members of my family were abused. A member of my family was murdered in the early 1930's for being seen in public with a man that members of the community felt was above her social status.

My family worked hard, overcame obstacles, and pushed each other and their children to learn, to be successful, and to educate themselves and work hard. They did not use the "my ancestors were slaves, and were mistreated both in this country and our homeland" as an excuse for not doing as well in school or in the workplace. In my family, not doing as well meant that you weren't trying hard enough. I have 30 first cousins on my mother's side. Everyone of us grew up in poverty. Every one of us completed high school. 24 of us have university degrees. Six are doctors. We didn't get special funding because of our skin color. We didn't get priority treatment or reserved places in school or in work because of our ancestry. We didn't get "all-Russian" colleges or universities. We didn't get special grant funding or scholarships because of our skin color or our ancestry. We all worked and paid our own way. We all got to where we are because of our work, not because we claimed a special status because of the atrocities our ancestors lived through.

I don't have to "right the wrongs" supposedly done to the children and grandchildren of black slaves. Those children and granchildren can do the same thing that my family has done. No one is "out to get them" and no one is trying to set them back. They are doing it themselves by using the "my ancestors were slaves" as an excuse.

you're right, sorry

Thank you Aaron. That post took guts.

blah blah blah blah blah

You can't resist showing your complete lack of maturity or intelligence, can you....

Several people have pointed out that you misinterpreted the posting, that you don't know the details of what is involved in getting accredited in Alberta, and that your comments were completely unprofessional and ignorant...

These forums are for the sharing of information and ideas, and providing resources to those who request it. The OP requested information, which has been provided to them by several people, along with the cautions that it is difficult to transfer certification to Alberta due to the regulations of our governing body.

You have chosen to be childish and insulting, and rather than doing the mature, professional thing, and saying, "you know what, I was out of line" you continue to be childish. It takes a bigger person to admit when they have been out of line - you obviously aren't that person.

It is a good thing that I know many American medics and EMT's who are far more open-minded and willing to have an intelligent discussion, and learn from others and about others, because if you had been the first one I had spoken with, I would be concerned about the quality and maturity of the US EMS system.

Read the topic about the students who claimed their faults were because "they do it on tv"

and no, it was not a cheap shot. It was in defense to what kevkei said

"Simple answer, NO.

Perhaps when hell freezes over. (You'll understand if and when you understand who and what ACP is)."

Once again you are showing your ignorance.

The comment was NOT directed at Americans.... kevkei's comment was regarding OUR regulating body, and the hoops they make us all jump through....

Read the post by kevkei again.... and again, maybe you shouldn't be posting like you are, regarding a topic you know nothing about.

rolfcopter, sure, mock me for standing up for my fellow Americans.

You weren't standing up for fellow Americans.... you were taking a cheap shot. It was unprofessional, and insulting.

Because Canada is SOOO much more superior than we are. They learn EMS by watching tv shows.

Aaron, please google the term "Ugly American" and then look in the mirror.

To the original poster.... you should contact ACP: www.collegeofparamedics.org

I doubt you will have to re-take any courses, but you will have to challenge the provincial registry exam. ACP is not the most co-operative of registry organizations, so if they don't answer all your questions at first, keep pushing....

Wish you luck,

Annie

Working rural, I had this experience many times. My beef was our town is now understaffed, why don't we just go home, if the city hospital want the pt returned after 6 hours, they can just call the local transfer service. However, the boss never listened, apparently we were paid more if we waited, then took the patient back. I think that under provincialization it would be better to utilize my scenario.

Then you were understaffed regardless of how long your transfer took..... which means your boss wasn't truly providing the services that were promised to your community.

When we take a patient to Calgary, another crew gets called in to cover.... so our area is not understaffed - it has always been that way in my area, of at least the 12 years I have been here... so me being utilized to move a patient from one hospital to another while I am waiting in Calgary is a better use of resources, than having me sit at Chapters and having a coffee while I wait for my patient.

In response to some of tniuqs’s rant on April 2….

QUOTE (Alberta Gov't) "Ambulances that come into the city to drop off a patient from communities around the region can be utilized, he said."

QUOTE tniuqs: "What about the Rural areas ?"

Before provincialization, ambulances were at times underutilized. For example… a Medicine Hat unit brings a wait and return angioplasty patient into Calgary…. They are supposed to be there for 6 hours (and we all know, that usually turns into 10 hours)… so, they drop off their patient, and go shopping to the Med bookstore at Foothills, Chapters, 911 Supply, and anywhere else they feel like going, and get paid to waste time the rest of the day. Under the new structure, now that unit can be utilized to do other things in the city, like transfer a patient from Foothills to PLC, which would free up a city unit to respond to emergency calls.

Before provincialization, that same Medicine Hat unit would find out after waiting the 6 hours for the patient, that now the patient is going to be admitted, so they head home empty. Now, that unit could do a transfer of a patient to Drumheller, Strathmore, or Brooks, on their way back home, again leaving a Calgary unit available to handle emergency calls, and, making better use of resources for the trip back home.

I don’t have a problem with this part of provincialization. We have already been doing that in our area, and it is working. And, for those who have commented that the outside of city crews don’t know where they are going – we have been to all the hospitals – we are fully capable of getting a patient from one hospital to another. And any city EMS worker who says they know every street in the city is lying…. They depend on their maps and GPS too.

QUOTE (Alberta Gov't) "As they're moving around between regions and in and out of the city we can utilize those resources to respond if they're the closest ambulance to a call."

QUOTE tniuqs:

"So the question remains if an ALS crew leaves say Edson, will an ALS Spruce Grove crew be dispatched to Edson and an ALS crew from Edmonton dispatched to Spruce Grove ? That is "improved utilization coverage model " ... but this type of roving deployment is simply absurd, it has never worked in a City alone let alone in a Province to reduce response times unless it in non emergent calls. One would need to have MASSIVE resources to accomplish this concept in the first place and I predict that there's going to be ton of truck sitting and huge Over Time costs just returning crews to their Stations, ALONE !"

I don’t believe that will happen. There will not be roving deployment like that. We all agree that is just nonsense, and it won’t work… what will happen is the same as above… if a unit is in the area, they can be utilized to do the more non-emergent things, keeping the local crews more available for the emergent calls.

QUOTE (Alberta Gov't) "There have been criticisms that out-of-town ambulances and dispatchers will have trouble with unfamiliar addresses and landmarks, but Garland dismissed those suggestions."

This, I am incredibly nervous about – our current dispatchers can’t even get us to a location and don’t know our area…. And now that our southern Alberta dispatch is going to be out of Calgary, I can’t see that improving at all.

QUOTE (Alberta Gov't) "A team in the community. "I can see paramedics partnering up with other health-care providers like respiratory therapists, nurse practitioners so they are really a team going out into the community," said Joe Acker, who is in charge of EMS for the Edmonton region with Alberta Health Services."

Am I the only one noticing that in smaller communities, EMT’s and medics are now working “in the ER” which then means they also work on the active care ward, and the long term care ward, and are doing the work of LPN’s and RN’s now? Of course this makes sense in the dollars and cents world…. Medics are cheaper labour than RN’s are…

I like community education, I like to try to improve my community, and I think we need to do more to educate the community on the role of EMS.. but I didn’t get my education so that I could work in a long term care unit, feeding and bathing an alzheimers patient until my tones go, and I am already seeing that happen in smaller areas. If I wanted to be an LPN or a nurse, I would have become and LPN or a nurse.

I think our government is in for a big surprise when we do get our act together and (hopefully) form our own union like the UNA did… then we will have a voice.

3c)Quebec is NOT apart of Canada.

At the moment, Quebec is still a part of Canada. I suspect that what TDP wanted to say is that Quebec THINKS they are not part of Canada. Quebec would like to have the infrastructure that Canada provides, without having to pay for it, or having to follow federal laws. Quebec wants to be SEPARATE, but doesn't want to give up the benefits of still being part of Canada. Quebec is like a child having a tantrum... at age 2, you tolerate it.... but over 100 years later, it gets tiring... and pathetic.

I have worked in a dispatch centre that used ProQA (and still does).

There are several issues with this system...

- to be a fully certified dispatcher, you take 3 weekend courses (a total of not quite 60 hours) to be certified in Fire, Ambulance, and Police dispatching. This isn't education - this is training.

- ProQA is like IKEA furniture - put tab A in slot B, and you will have success..... there is no room for variation, and no room for discretion.

- QA is based on the caller/dispatcher conversation only - when I worked dispatch, we were audited on our calls.... we had to score 84% or higher on our audits - which meant that we asked the questions in the order that the software requires, we coded the call properly, and we confirmed both address and telephone number back to the caller..... NOWHERE were we monitored on our communication with the responding units, and that is part of the problem. Some of the dispatchers I worked with could answer all the questions in the order we were supposed to, could type it all in in the time frames we were were supposed to, but when it came to sending out units, and getting the information to the responding units, they SUCKED.

- this program does nothing to address whether the dispatchers know their region, what units are to respond where and to what kind of calls, and what units are to be backup on those calls.

- this program does nothing to address whether your caller is someone other than a layperson (tniuqs addressed this a little bit) - even if you are a medically trained person calling dispatch, they are still required to ask the questions in order, even though the caller might be requesting "send unit 5B1 to this address as I am already on scene with a 60yo male complainig of chest pain, and is pale, cool, and diaphoretic, and has a hx of MI'... They will still go through the "what is the address of the emergency.... what is the telephone number you are calling from.... what is your name.... what is the emergency, tell me exactly what happened.... are they conscious, are they breathing....."

- the dispatch centre I worked for, and which still dispatches for the region I work in, has dispatched my unit to calls that are 3 hours away, because they don't know the region. They have dispatched me to mvc's, giving "the intersection of highway X and Y" as the location, when X and Y don't intersect. They have argued with me on who to send for backup when I have specifically requested the fire department closest to me.

- Priority Dispatching is not the complete answer. It is a tool, and only ONE tool in dispatching. There are so many more areas that need to be covered in dispatching, and from what I have seen, some centres feel that if they use Priority Dispatching, they have done enough, and that is not the case.

In the services I have worked with, there are specific policies regarding accepting gifts.

If the gift is less than $100, you can accept it. If it is more than $100, you cannot. If the person giving the gift refuses to take no for an answer, you get your supervisor involved to also talk to the person. Usually, the gift is a gift certificate for something, and if the giver still refuses to take no for an answer, then we accept it and then donate it to one of the charity auctions we are involved in.

Is it moral? Well, it depends on the reasons for acceptance. It is a good feeling to get a thank you from a patient, and they are trying to express that thanks in a tangible way. If we are accepting the gift in hopes of further gain, that is not acceptable.

Is it ethical? Again, it depends on the reasons for acceptance. That is why we have the policies in place that we do, in an attempt to prevent larger issues from surfacing.

Those that can't do, teach.

This patient had a 20min down time before they even got on scene.

The article says the AED was 'working'. It can say 'no shock advised' and be 'working'.

using the BVM, its highly likely they were pumping the gut full of air and got puke for their efforts which required suctioning. For this knob to not notice their was a bigass red cap on the end is pathetic. Also assuming it was a 20min ride to the hospital (it was 20min to get on scene) they should have reassessed the airway a couple times and still failed to notice a bigass red cap in her mouth, assuming they ever looked. Gotta love the volly kids...

Another example of vollies at work.

"Save the basement is our motto"

Making a blanket statement like the two above is just as scary as being uneducated, because it makes you look ignorant and uneducated. Not getting into the volly vs paid debate (again) I would bet that everyone on this site has worked with paid EMT's and medics who were completely incompetent. I am also sure that everyone on this site has had instructors who were incompetent, and instructors who were amazing and continue to be their mentors.

The guy in the original news article was an idiot, plain and simple. The fact that he is an instructor does make it much worse. It does not mean that all instructors are idiots. The fact that he is a volly shows that there are bigger issues with his department than just being volly - education, training, supervision, standards of practice.... the list goes on.

The fact in this news article is that he was just not thinking on scene, and made an incredibly stupid mistake.

Sporty, google "seat belt statistics" and you will get several thousand hits on all kinds of studies showing that wearing seatbelts improves your chances of surviving an mvc by significantly more than not wearing a seatbelt.

Some sites:

http://www.car-accidents.com/pages/seat_belts.html (includes messy pics)

http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/natio...02/08/76814.htm

http://www.tacsafety.com.au/jsp/content/Na...&pageID=168

Richard, that seatbelt video you are thinking of is this one, I think... I use it in my first aid classes, especially when it is high school students. I have it downloaded as a wav file - if you want it, pm me and I can email it to you.

I don't know if we will ever be able to understand what goes through a person's mind, that makes them decide that this kind of carnage is the right thing to do.

My prayers go out to the families and friends of those who were injured and killed, and to the police and EMS workers who responded.

I have relatives in Stuttgart, so this news item caught my attention as soon as I heard it on TV.

Krumel, keep us informed if you do have to respond, and take care of yourself too.

Annie

She just wants to earn her wings, did you ever hear of the mile high club?

Like so many other things in this world..... when the real thing is not available, toys do have thier uses......

And I'm sure that guard wasn't the only guard around that day. If he was, that's pretty sad in and of itself in a place that busy. But we'll say he was and couldn't send another guard to see what was going on. Even so, 60 seconds of his lazy self walking to see what was going on could have been all it took to save her. He could have told dispatch the true nature of the situation and they may have sent a cop that was closer to help. He/she would have had a knife and been able to free the woman. He could have even radio the ticket office(or some office there) and they probably would have had scissors.

I find the entire situation pathetic as well. People are so afraid of getting involved, for fear of being sued. They also just don't care.

I find this thread interesting as if comes right after a discussion in chat regarding law enforcement having first aid. This is a perfect example of the reason law enforcement should have first aid. That security guard should be ashamed. In the interest of public safety, he did nothing. I am certain that he was not the only security guard on duty. He could have assisted the bystander who was attempting to save the woman.