JPINFV

Since the 2 dollar phrase for "DNR" "voluntary passive euthanasia," do you refuse to honor any DNR at all? Furthermore, do you refuse to honor any DNR, written or verbal (since verbal in my situation was a valid DNR) after the patient became incapacitated? Sure, the POA:HC or another immediate relative like a spouse signed the DNR (cosigned by the physician), but how can you be sure that's what the patient wanted? If a loved one is on home hospice and the family doesn't have the DNR form in the house, should they be charged with murder if they simply don't call 911 when their loved one takes a turn for the worse?

Family disagreement on scene means resuscitate and call medical control (which means call paramedics if you're an EMT). On the other hand, when both the husband and son are on-scene and requesting no resuscitation on an end stage lung cancer patient who's on home care and they can't find the DNR, that could very much mean the difference between going to the patient's home hospital and a fast trip to the ER down the street (my partner thought it looked worse than it was in my opinion ). It's nice to have the option (since boiler plate "anything questionable means call medical control" applies) than tell a family, "Opps, sorry you messed up, now you have to go sit in a strange ER and hope they can transfer to your home facility because you can't find the DNR." If you'd like to read the DNR policy, here it is. Top of page 3 is where the clause about immediate family members is. http://ochealthinfo.com/docs/medical/ems/P&P/330.51.pdf

As with everything, it is all dependent on the local procedure for following DNR orders. I know of areas that allow EMS providers to honor verbal requests from immediate family members to withhold or withdraw resuscitation.

Doczilla, Do you think that there are enough trauma patients who would have a postive FAST exam and are not already headed towards a trauma center for ultrasound to be useful? That's the problem main problem I see with prehospital ultrasound. In most places a positive result won't change anything since the crew is already heading for the trauma center.

Here's my big problem with contacting medical control with this. How long will it take to realize that the patient is in arrest, defecate, realize you need medical control because of the DNR, contact medical control, get the physician on the radio, rely the situation, and get an order? All the while the likelihood of a good outcome diminishes. While I wouldn't have to explain that I 'killed Grandma,' I'd much rather explain that then explain why Grandma is now on a vent in ICU.

DNR means DNR. On one hand, witness arrest with a shockable rhythm, I could see the argument to give a defib or two. However if you get ROSC and the patient ends up on a vent, then we start getting into bad juju territory.

You might also want to send Skip Kirkwood over at JEMS Connect a message...

Not to mention the joys of security theater...

Why would you use the term "psychiatric patient" in a narrative enough to need shorthand?

Do all Muslims have blood on their hands only by the fact that they share a common religion? Do all Americans have blood on their hands due to the treatment of Native Americans? Limitations like that won't stand simply under the president set by National Socialist Party v Skokie.

...and Saudi Arabia doesn't guarantee freedom of religion. The US does, which is why, again, the entire argument is really a moot point. I'm not going to support compromising the Constitution because one group of extremists ended up empowering another group of extremists, and yes. Trashing one of the most basic tenets of this country is extremism.

It's a counter to the "Mecca doesn't have a synagogue" argument.

This is why I think Fred Phelps is a good example. After all, all Christians are just itching to protest military funerals because of homosexuals, right? Fred Phelps has as much to do with the average Christian in the US as the 9/11 terrorists have to do with the average Muslim in the US.

How many synagogues are in Vatican City?

You're replying to a comment about Mecca, a city in the country of Saudi Arabia. I find it hard to fault all Muslims for the actions of one country just because that one country holds an important religious site, even if the religion demands at least one pilgrimage to the site in the follower's lives. Also, based on the actions of a majority of Christians (and not limited to any specific country), I can make a very valid claim that Christians, in general, are not tolerant. Fred Phelps, California Prop 9, the KKK. Christians, in general, just can't get along with other people.

A YMMA is no more a monument than a YMCA. No one is going to force anyone to accept Sharia law here. This isn't Saudi Arabia, regardless of how much people on the anti-side would like it to be. Plenty of people take the bible literally, they're just normally very selective of what parts they take literally (i.e. homosexuality is a favorite). Why are all who take the bible literally, "are seen to be extreme, radical nut jobs and nobody takes them seriously" however all Muslims apparently take the Koran literally unless proven otherwise?

Have I forgiven the terrorists? No, however I don't blame all Muslims for the actions of a few. It's possible to not forgive and not hold a grudge as well as not forgive and not endorse collective punishment. There are actions that are unforgivable and while I doubt very many people have forgiven Hitler and Germany for the Final Solution, I doubt very many, if any at all, believe that current Germany and all Germans believe what Germany did in the 1930s and 40s was good. Doesn't affect my life at all. However I feel that bending into outrage to not build it weakens my rights as rights are non-negotiable. While freedom to do something does not mean freedom from consequences, the consequences have to be directed at the right people, and sharing the same X (input any trait here) is a tenuous link as blaming all Baptists for Fred Phelps. Should we ban Baptists churches and community centers from a 2 block radius of military cemeteries? I don't believe that there should be any furor over this.

Abortion clinic bombings (self explanatory). India: http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/india/states/tripura/terrorist_outfits/nlft.htm Northern Ireland (self explanatory). Romania: http://www1.yadvashem.org/about_yad/what_new/data_whats_new/pdf/english/1.1_Roots_of_Romanian_Antisemitism.pdf Uganda: http://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/04/world/uganda-s-terror-crackdown-multiplies-the-suffering.html?sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all ...and I'm being nice because I could use any terrorist attack by a Christian based on how you worded it. Muslims weren't behind Oklahoma Federal Building after all. Pretending something didn't happen and refusing to give into bigotry isn't the same thing. Read the Bible. There's plenty in there to justify terrorism. Leviticus 24 is a good one, stoning blasphemers. So while, no I haven't read the Koran, I have no doubt that there's plenty of terrible things it commands it followers to do, just like the Bible and Torah does for people of its book. As such, there are extremists who use those books to justify their terrorism and there's the majority who don't strictly follow those verses. If you don't think the Bible sets for standards for behavior, morals, and criminal penalties, you obviously haven't read it.

So you hold Saudi Arabia as the gold standard for civil rights? Oh, and also, Vatican City. Why should Christians (since I'm sure that there isn't just one form of Islam just like there isn't one form of Christianity or Judaism) expect tolerance when Vatican City gives none?

Then why bring Mecca into this? Oh, and New York showed their true colors over the weekend. http://www.northjersey.com/news/opinions/kelly/95748769_On_this_ground__zero_tolerance.html?page=all Why do New Yorkers hate Christians? Video of the Coptic Christians being verbally attacked for being... well.. I'm not entirely sure why the mob acted that way since they weren't Muslims.

So you want to hold the United States to the standards of Saudi Arabia?

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=%22christian+church%22&sll=34.386229,132.468166&sspn=0.070832,0.154324&ie=UTF8&hq=%22christian+church%22&hnear=&ll=34.389629,132.452202&spn=0.07437,0.219727&t=h&z=13 Oh my God. It's so insensitive to have so many Christian Churches in Hiroshima. Placing Western religious buildings in a town absolutely destroyed by Western powers? We should say "No!" to our Ground Zero Churches in Hiroshima. It's so insensitive to have victory churchs in a town like that! Wait, isn't this the same argument against the mosque? Everyone against the mosque is against the Ground Zero Churches, correct?

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-august-19-2010/extremist-makeover---homeland-edition Daily Show once again hits the nail on the head. The excepts from Charlton Heston's speech at the 1999 NRA Convention are amazingly appropriate.

Alternatively, some of us don't believe in compromising the Constitution in the name of fear mongering.

Blog with some interesting pictures of what else is on "Hallowed Ground." http://daryllang.com/blog/4421 So right after the 'Muslim terrorists' get done praying and playing basketball, they can go to the near-by Burger King, strip club, bar, or off track betting facility. Oh, don't forget to pick up some tacky souvenir crud while you're at it. After all, what point is it being hallowed ground if you can't turn a dollar while you're at it. Edit: Finally found a picture I've been meaning to post for a while.