tniuqs

Ladies and Gentleman Welcome aboard Flight 101. In the event of a "deer strike" please remain seated and calm, as the conservation officer has to do some first aid on bambi. Ativan will be served upon request from the on board medics (if there is any remaining) There are no "Head Facilities" on board but feel free to fill your boots. We ask that you not to go into arrest while awaiting for the engine and prop to be changed out. Thank You for flying Meat Airways Flight 101 Medivac to NO WHERE BC.

This is not a problem singular to your area ... BCAS Flight Side had venison (pre-processed) on a landing a couple of years back northern BC somewhere ? I will look for the MOT incident report. But you do have a serious problem with your C.O. what a fool to protect "bambi" over the lives of the 2 legged. So is he willing to put his tree hugging policy on paper ? Just the threat of this could leave his "dept" open to some rather stiff penalties / law suits if there is another incident/ fatalities/ injuries ... btw failure to perform. Bear Bangers ... LMFAO your kidding PLEASE. Speaking of "incidents" perhaps as a "learning opportunity" conduct an MCI because if this continues to be a concern one best have a action plan in place ... hey just due diligence $$$$$$$ isn't it ? Ok bullets and on MOT restricted sites (there are laws about this too) despite your unique problem solving idea it maybe not the best of ideas as it is kinda short lived, these 4 legged terrorists do breed like wabbits and are know to be wanderers besides being dumb as posts. Yup a proper chain link fence around the perimeter is the answer in the vast majority of cases well other than a armed Air Traffic Controller with a .50 sniper rifle on the control tower ... but that could raise a few issues

What is the thought process going on here ? Why is MOH now restricting this practice what is the rationale behind this retroactive move ? Is there any EBM studies to substantiate "to start or not to start" an IV in the field on the BLS level ? Thought 2 ... How can one treat a life threating Hypoglycemia or Hypovolemia ... when one is located in Ontario where there is NO ALS ? If the "fall out" of this hits BC ... good lord 90% of that province will go back to grab and run Disagree: The College is a regulatory body ONLY (and putting a cart before a horse) One needs legislation (an EMS/Health Discipline type act) and with teeth to define the scope of practice and standardize care. IMHO: ONT (as in AB and BC now) need an true professional association with good support to promote EMS and without union affiliation, as this polarizes public opinion. my 2 cents

Just not a problem, in Canada one is legally limited to 5 shots in a clip, no law about the number of clips ... send me gas money .....

Agreed ! Time to have FF do the SSM thingy.

I have 2 sepatate thoughts .. but first when is alcoholism a disease process like epilepsy or the like ... its is a personal choice to drink then drive impaired. 1- WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOUR RCMP if this guy is a repeat offender. Its their job to take this threat off the street PERIOD, if this guy does kill a family off going to church its just a bit too late isn't it ? Then the RCMP should be held accountable 2- This ass**** needs lead injection directly into his engine block ... No wheels = No driving. ps I may or may not have a few spare rounds and a perfect excuse for a road trip to visit FACT: AK in AB they can take away your Operators Licence for not paying child support ... oh don't get me going on that "brilliant" idea either. cheers

In WW 1 the (rough estimate) was that with a fractured femur the mortality / morbidity was in the neighborhood of 80% ... I like to keep that into proper perspective, ie horse drawn wagons. I do take offense with this Cowley character as the "Golden Hour" was a concept applied (initially on a napkin in a lounge) to put ex Viet Nam "pilots" and "Medics" into a system of HEMS in the USA. Just saying I believe in EMS we have gone so far over board that it is killing us ... just look at the latest stats by Bob Waddell ... that it is statistically safer to transport a child on a motorbike without a helmet than put a child in the back of an Ambulance these days, just what are we doing are we improving service to the public or actually killing with misguided kindness with the diesel bolus concept applied . http://www.ems1.com/ems-products/ambulances/articles/756441-The-dos-and-donts-of-transporting-children-in-ambulances/ Now we have such a prostitution of this term it is beyond belief, by local EMS pushing people on scenes to "rush the victim to the hospital" (media driven) then Industrial EMS providers (marketing driven) HEMS proliferation to the point of ridiculous levels, and multiple fatal crashes, but best is the Darwinian award goes to government dictated First Aid Level courses continuing to promote this "Golden Hour" when it was never the truth in the first place. So just WHEN are we going to use Evidence Based Medicine to guide our return trip to the Hospital ? It is always assumed that in the generic calls as ugly refers too .. That are all "possible" internal belly bleeds best treated by surgical intervention and a helo ? Is that SOB patient needing ETI or just CPAP ? Why is an obese patient requiring a rapid extrication ... ? (besides and just who is providing the twinkies when they are bed ridden ?) cheers

http://www.wikidoc.org/index.php/Golden_hour_(medicine) Yeah I know I may be beating on a dead horse but this 'Golden Hour' is still used to market Industrial EMS, Helos, and even some First Aid Courses <sheesh>

No disrespect intended for the fallen brothers: Please Don't Call Them Heroes

As a past Member of SAR ROCK/SNOW/ICE/ SWIFT H20 (with 2 groups in Alberta) I have never charged for my time or use of some rather very expensive Kit ... only rock_shoes understands my personally huge investment. I applaud those groups that dedicate time, training, and extensive efforts .. but now to be held personally responsible if they cannot successfully locate a person that has without a shadow of doubt subjected (I am familiar with the Golden OUT OF BOUNDS search in the link) themselves to the wilds and mountain / ocean / back country. I have done many searches for someone who signed OUT .. but failed to sign back IN ! to be located in a PUB ... especially when I have been humping a big pack, in 6 ft of snow, in a storm, at night, following tracks. There HAS to be personal accountability ... that said looking for a 4 y/o kid wandered away from a camp ground a whole different scenario. So to hell with liability in that case and throw many resources you can to find that Kid as fast as you can but it has to be coordinated by a Search Master and experienced/ trained searchers as not to destroy tracks or scent ... helpers with zero training stay at home ... http://www.globaltvedmonton.com/Philanthropic+family+asks+help+find+missing/3314925/story.html Now I did investigate this case (just last PM) and contacted RCMP to find that out that the experts have called off the search as it highly likely the body will NEVER be found ... now here is the hard part to deal with .. the emotion that drives this type of things .. now looking at a scenario of "psuedo SAR" jumping it to "Help Out"Well knowing the area in question I can say that this family is asking to put more people in harms way, (even though they say they are not they just do not understand) This in a dam controlled flood plain, high water with unprecedented high run off, white water, bears, absolutely no roads (just animal paths) very tough ass bush and highly likely the body is already 200 miles downstream, the North Saskatchewan River just doesn't care. Do I go put myself in harms way (now with a possibility of legal action against me) ... or go as a safety man to watch over the masses of weekend warriors that have a Quad / Canoe in the back of their "pick me up truck". hmmm after reading this thread I am "thinking again" cheers

Oh Gosh your feelings got hurt ? Heck that is not a rant ? RANT Definition: Squints Rationale: Its not a rant because your missing the spit flying and the foam in the corners of my mouth with arms flaying in the air .. as that would be a true rant. BUT the points above are the very realistic, medical legal and rational fallout that could result and the outcomes of setting a precedent in Industrial Provision of ALS care in Kanukistan. Now with some perspective (you can't even guess what this very difficult choice cost me, a 2 year commitment and salary in the very lucrative Oilpatch) but since I have divorced myself from this uncomfortable situation I will add a possible "explanation" of the behavior of the Safety Persons at the Top. In British Columbia the "norm" and regulated level of care has been an Advanced First aid course (called the OFA level 3 (Occupational First Aid) and level 3 is the "transportation endorsement of the victim" This level of huge accomplishment is a 76 hour course and mandatory even if one is an RN or an Advanced Care Paramedic ... to top it off this level is not capable of doing a BP, so this high level of "Medical Care Provider" are very often used historically for many ancillary duties, so why not ask them to save a buck and do drug testing in the workplace ... eh ? The Safety people "in the Ivory Towers" focus is on cost efficacy and are grossly medically/legally misinformed and very arrogant in many cases, so with the dollar saved because the contracted employer can not provide Licensed / Registered, and experienced ACP willing to put their careers on the line = Default to the Advanced First Aid level and who hoo look at the "cost" savings, well until there is a REAL LIFE THREATENING EMERGENCY. This lovely location is 3 hours (by rugged road from hell) or a hour flight by chopper to a "outreach clinic" then another 3 hours by air in fixed wing *minimum* to a real hospital ps a world of hurt in fact. I am just trying to wake up the Ivory Tower ... so be "disappointed" Bushy that some dedicated professionals dare do draw a line in the sand. cheers

well well well ... I just saw this thread and I know a friend who was there at the AGM ... I will see if I can get a "short version" from my long winded friend. (who states in passing that he will never get the time back that he wasted at the AGM) later and more to follow (thats called foreshadowing I believe)

Good points annie. I certainly hope that this filmmaker would focus the high burn out rate of EMS workers how we cope as a community ... and perfect example would be this venue. EMT City that affords us social networking system that does assist in stress relief, share experience, a shoulder to cry on and of course to promote education, not forgetting the very rare arguments <insert snickering > that we have from time to time ... cheers

What reassurance do the "women" of EMT City have that representation is in the best Interest of our Profession as a group. TRAUMA sure the hell wasn't ! That said there are many single or divorced Fathers in EMS that do the exact same thing (wear 3 hats) ... What about Them ? Equal rights and representation would only be a fair in my humble opinion. cheers

Pissed No .. Passionate YES. I will not test anyone for something that is not directly covered under medical protocol and for the benefit of the patient. Ok I will bite ... what IS or IS NOT protected information ? cheers

Well If you will excuse me its my gardening "weeding time" ... Spuds, Beans and Tomatoes that is !

Who yah working for bro ?

'Ruffems' Your excellent rapport with the safety people does not jive with what you have been saying on this forum. You blatantly point out how much you disdain those people. You may have a great rapport with those people on one face yet you are completely different in opinion here. I judge people with their pants straight on not front to back, the ivory tower is the identified problem here. I agree with you on one of the points you have - if the safety person needs a drug screen then they should do it. Well success you have seen the light. But seriously, the test is going to get done right? Done right ? I dont care its NOT my job unless its for Medical reasons! So your saying taking a urine sample, taking its temperature, then look at the lines is rocket science ? Unless you are actualy doing the test and recording the results, aren't you technically just the collector? Today Sample, tomorrow Tester, if you do not take a stand its push push push. You never did answer my question earlier, do you do drug testing on other patients, non-employee's? NO! Isn't that part of your job? NO! IF not then its a moot point but if you are collecting urine samples for drug tests then isn't this the same thing? Same as What ? I will test for myoglobin, Tropin, CKMB, BGL, ETCO2, SaO2, take swabs for C+S, sputum samples for C+s... yea know medical stuff, or Metabolic studies of Exhaled CO2, O2 uptake compared to Urine BUN yup is a bit of a stretch but I will to that too if its patient care but I will not release info to a Safety person .. I will just say I need a Medivac as the patients condition warrants it. ;>) Again, I'm probably missing the point but don't you have about the same chance of going to court on a patient care issue as you do with this issue? Not if I comply with SOP in regards to confidentially of Health Care Information ... so far I have managed not breached <sheesh> that area. I seriously don't see what the issue is, other than you not wanting to be a "Drug Cop" Seriously I am a health Care Provider and not going to commit professional suicide or set presedent for industry, in fact my stance hopefully will make precedent. I also think that if you refuse to collect the specimen that you can get fired is assinine and totally Retarded. Whoever thought that policy up is indeed a moron. I will not subject myself to that ALTHOUGH if I did and was fired ... ba da bing ba da boom helo Mr Lawyer ! But were making headway here but its not me refusing to obtain sample. ITS the Patent refusing to provide a sample that results in immediate dismissal. Safety People will not jeopardize the integrity of my profession of a Health Care Provider and that of Paramedicine btw with more qualifications than the vast majority, 9ps with a lot to lose) with proven good judgement to protect the interests/liability of the Prime Contractor in very "serious" medical situations. Can you explain how a safety person would jeopardize the integrity of a health care provider? I think that at times we healthcare providers do more to jeopardize it than anyone else. Disclosure of Health Care Information, Treatment, PMHX, or Medications that they "may" be on is a breach of Confidentiality. Do I wish to be burned at the Stake for something that I do not believe in and is hugely controversial in Human Rights Law's ? Yes, I would comply with the lay persons request. If that lay person was speaking for my employer and he had the power to ask me to do something, if it didn't cause a life or limb problem, I'd do what he asked. Like a sheep to the slaughter, so do you disclose confidential information to a passer by or a media person too ? IF the employee is clean, then it's all good right? IF they are not clean, and what I mean by clean is that they don't test positive or if they do thenthey have a doctors note showing that what they are taking was prescribed by that doctor. IF they are dirty then do you really want them working at all? Clean or not its not my job I have very little intent on making societal changes I just deal with the fall out ! So you want to be the person to establish this .... perhaps apply to Law Enforcement then (just saying) morals aside, a impaired worker is much more likly to cause an accident then a non-impaired worker. More likely to die on the job than a non impaired worker. Impaired by what again ? ... the evidence is VERY clear that fatigue, stress, and over-tired contribute far more an influence in the workplace. QUOTE: Drug testing is not a substitute for a good accident prevention program.

http://www.emtcity.com/index.php/topic/15884-mci-in-camrose-ab/page__p__220764__hl__camrose__fromsearch__1#entry220764 Oddly enough CCEMS was the Provider @ the Camrose Stage collapse and I can say without reservation that all the Instructors, and students did a most excellent job. cheers btw I agree CMA approved Institutions are the way to go for longevity and national reciprocity, but putting things into perspective CMA audit/approval is a paper chase ONLY.

So your position is that you would comply with a "lay persons" ie Sub Contracted Safety Persons (point being they are separate entity) if they then request to test "with prejudice" by requesting a sample of urine from your "patient" and bet your house that then once that door is open .. then test urine for DOA. Fact: A refusal of a "patient" to provide a sample would result in immediate termination of the workers right to work. Further a "false positive sample" would land you in court in a wrongful dismissal suit (civil law) a "false negative sample" could return a worker to the job. Please remember on mass spec one can determine accurate levels of a "banned substance" or "medically prescribed rx" ... add to that only ETOH has legal identifiable "impaired" levels. So Bushy your prepared to represent yourself (on your own coin) in a court that has NOTHING to do with patient care AND highly likely breaches Paramedic Patient confidentiality issues (no test court case quite yet) ... over what again ? Further Legal FYI: In Canada no signed "waiver" of your rights (ie privacy of health information) can be used in a court of law it becomes a "doodle" with a good Lawyer, it also could burn the employer in the end and be considered "signed under duress or protest" just saying no way to tell. To top it all off this WILL result shooting the Safety People in the foot, putting in place a most serious barrier for diligent reporting not only minor incidents but minor first aids that can be "treat and release" avoiding the entire medical legal mess. So Bushy your on board with a self defeating policy that most likely infringes on the patients rights to privacy and disagrees with evidence based research, proving that this Drug testing in the workplace pointless,(se prior link) and your willing to put your licence/registration/careerer on the line. All this when you were actually hired under the auspice of delivering Primary Health Care and Medivac Services. Contact me off server and I have a job for you. Lets put this into a better Light if there is a serious incident like Major Damage or Injury / Loss of Life then the standard LEO involvement will ensue ... go figure eh ? I have an excellent rapport with the Safety people on this site I do have major issue with the Ivory Towers trying to save "pennies" and heap ancillary duties on the contracted Medical Providers. Why because they "don't do enough" funny that I am paid for what I know not the red neck perspective if your not a "physical asset" your a waste of money only a legislated entity .. good grief. Squints opinion (female side LOL) is if the safety people make a request to test ... then it is their responsibility to conduct the testing not medical. Safety People will not jeopardize the integrity of my profession of a Health Care Provider and that of Paramedicine btw with more qualifications, than the vast majority, with proven good judgement to protect the interests/liability of the Prime Contractor in very "serious" medical situations. Oh you again ? ... Don't listen to AK he was drinking, tniuqs is Squints younger, hot to trot, walking wet dream, Twin Sister ! LMFAO! cheers

Welcome to rights insane Kanukistan where a sun burned nose and application of sun screen becomes a reportable First Aid (in industry) and grounds to drug test a worker ... wtf ? This action will directly result to not have workers report and seek timely medical assistance, if I wanted to be in Vice Squad I would be wearing a badge.

Yea a 11 weekend(s) course and you too can be a Safety "person" ... protecting the employers liability, I will stick with being a Paramedic treat patients and only disclose medical information if a person is a whacked out nut job or too sick to work. PERIOD!

This thread is not about your personal moral stance on working with a partner or yourself working , its about a Paramedic being asked to do drug testing in the workplace based upon a safety persons arbitrary choice to test a worker because he had a slip and fell on his arm or whatever .. this is an infringement on the rights of the worker and my rights to refuse to do drug testing and resultant legal liability. ps 8 mgs of codeine is used and is more effective as a treatment for diarrhea, 10 to 20 is used as an antitussive. Prescription in Canada for codeine starts at 15 mgs ! I have no issue with that .. if the Paramedic has pain (sore back comes to mind) and is not impaired whats the problem ... ? But we all have and its not moot at all its the biggest exponentially proportional DOA in North American society ! I don't know where you work the streets but about 60% of my call volume HAS booze involved one way or another.

ps Ruff its quite clear from the statistics that BOOZE is the biggest DOA in North America, kills more people, destroys more lives and just in association with an Alcoholic, Hospitalizations and Family problems +++++++ and I am not asked to test for that !

Agreed: But I will do DOA testing .. but for medical information ONLY. cheers