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Ok when your in uniform, informing the LEO you have a patient, career suicide for the cop ... as this story will end up proving especially when the family phone cams the incident .. hey if its good for the cops to video then its fair for the rest of we peons too. A judge gets to decide validity of probable cause and wrongful arrest is not a pretty thing, thank god we have the RCMP here, the best trained police force (and respected) in the free world. The Swat analogy is extreme and has nothing to do with this, besides if ERT team decides to storm MY HOUSE there's typically a phone call from a negotiator before it gets that far of storm troopers breaking down the door (ps you watch way to much TV) Daring to tell a police officer he is an guilty of obstruction is punishable by death .. absurd, I thought yours was the land of freedom and home of the brave ? Guess I was wrong. cheers

Funny thing in even ACLS it states to treat possible underlying reasons for PEA or V Fib, AGAIN with the information initially provided one can not "RULE OUT" another reason, go back ... READ. And bounce this off "standing orders" from your MD ... I bet ca$h he will tell you to work ALL PEA or even asystolic arrests for a minimum of 45 minutes and all ACLS interventions have been attempted with resources available and anything else is just lazy or worse ... I can hear it now ... "the book said" ---- Your Honour. Wrong ... where do the 2% that do survive so fit into your "research data" and don't just quote ACLS "EMS mother of all book's" there is much evidence "factually" that disagrees with your statement and if we continue to adopt that idea we will fail many just think 1% of 2000 is (do the math) Relying on stanch so called evidence based medicine "concepts" that you quote and EMS will continue to propagate ignorance. By the way we used to use 2 amps of Bicarb in an unwitnessed arrest too ... we were actually using a coup de grau ... forgive my French, how will we know anything if we adopt this attitude ... like really. For there ARE those that do survive a traumatic arrest, someone in these cases did not quit based on the 30 before and the rational thought process that your claiming. Oddly enough I have personally needled "bilateral" chest in a PEA and guess what, yup the guys 72 y/o now ! pfft kinda makes your blatant statements appear (again fill in the blank) Quoting: No thanks but your words speak for themselves.

Perhaps encouraged to do the right thing, seriously the "right thing" is for the trooper to admit he was wrong and resign --- the U tube / cam phone world court has passed judgement, his actions reflect very poorly on the other 95% of LEO that are professional and daily show good judgement, its a foregone conclusion as to this LEO's fate now, it is his own undoing. In-action could encourage such behavior, again just me but using the terms of endearment "beaking off" or some such other such colloquialism. Personally I get rather "upset" if someone wearing a uniform puts a choke hold on my neck, because I dared to question the actions of a gun toting cop ... don't you ? Just me but I think this officer has other anger issues and seriously needs council, I highly suspect a divorce is now in the wings as well, and look to the stats about how many LEO "eat their own guns' over issues far less than this .... this officer needs HELP. I don't know of many that don't get fired on the spot ... medics are a dime a dozen. And why is the sky blue ? Just to play what "if" or take a devils advocatcy , "insert" a Female Paramedic in the exact same situation ... the outcome would have been entirely different. Hell, I bet this red neck officer would have used the terms "honey" or "sweetie" or something along that theme. Do the LE blatantly assault other professions while attempting to do their duty, sorry not buying into that. Then that LEO too should be removed for NOT doing his duty, one can't have it both ways -- rules of conduct are rules. Seriously we are the worst group for hanging someone out to dry on far less evidence i.e (Your only as good as your LAST call, phenomenon) EMS is notorious for eating their young and in my hood EMS does over police itself, we have an entire regulatory body and code of ethics that must be strictly adhered too. As I have stated before the law enforcement agencies I deal with wish to see this individual become a street sweeper and be made an example, after 1 millon hits on U tube ---- the jury has spoken. Many fictional writings "i.e. books" are based on even more simple observations, just think, a black Paramedic, working on a native reserve, harassed by a White ex drill Sargent turned COP ... matbe call the book "White like Me" ? (a play on words due Paramedics name.) Oh ... I am one that dislikes the race card intensely but refer to transposition of a Female Paramedic in this exact scenario and then tell me this had no bearing on this LEOs behavior. Seiously: A good factual expos'e concerning our Profession would not hurt in the slightest IMHO, but "Turd watch" and "Saved" and "Bring out your Dead" will be very hard to undo.

Wrong ... the Trooper made the first red neck dumb ass move his panties need changing because they have a brown stain in the back .... look to prime cause before accusing the Medic of abandonment as this is not the issue at hand. Is "run off his mouth off" a felony or a misdemeanor in Oklahoma ? jmc149 ... this is the internet and I have great deal of difficulty accepting your 23 years as a Paramedic or as a LEO, just saying ------ your barking up the wrong tree. cheers AND I Play a Doctor (on TV)

That I must concur .... AMEN ! Thanks R/r for the in sight on the motivation behind the action(s) on Whites part, I stand corrected, he is earning more respect as the story unfolds, and here is hoping that if there are interviews he will bring other EMS issues to the for front for the profession and patients sakes. cheers

AND no fishing limits !

Agreed Vent ... this go after the LEO job and following actions puts a bit of a darkend shadow on Paramedic Whites "best intentions" IMHO. cheers

Welcome to a first poster, interesting what bring pple to join ? I believe the Senior Member on Car IS the Individual to deal with, after hearing the "HERE NOW" command this must have been heard by Paramedic White and "inside the unit" ! Well I listened to the tapes ... not my take that he was running his mouth at all it was clearly the Troopers comments that sparked this confrontation. Good but too bad this Trooper did not show any common sense, bent on proving his authority ... good grief. I think you are about the only one after the police and family bystander cam footage .. best do a little review perhaps ? Absolutely an un justified and unnecessary stop, the bird issue is not and fact not a conversation at ALL .. Demanding "HERE NOW" come on .. did you see the tapes .. a max 24 second delay to an "NON CALL" to start with and then the wife in the car, what kind of policy is there concerning this for OHP ? A good EVO expects that idiots are on the street and does not allow emotion to take control of this situation at ALL ! You wouldnt want to do that to me, no matter who is wearing what uniform .. I have a RIGHT to defend myself and a choke hold is not LEO SOP here because this method in itself could cause a death .... Bottom line this is police brutality ... and MIGHT does NOT mean your RIGHT, so whats next in the continuum of force ... pull a weapon, hold it to the Paramedics Head when human instinct is fight for survival ... ? I don't know much about US law, but in Canada LEO need probable cause and quite clearly from tape that was seriously lacking. This should NEVER have happened .. these irresponsible actions, fall directly on the Troopers Head, and he will be paying the pauper. .. No the Troopers anger management should be the issue ! Honestly he needs mental health help, thats the sad part of this whole affair. cheers

Bite Me! Squared !

Pink Flamingo Neon .... is on back order .... Dang I so want that for MY last aid kit

Thanks Rid .. very interesting "Spin" put on this very unnecessary traffic stop by the Lawyer, I am shocked ... NOT! First off the Lawyer presumes the car that was passed was yielding to the sound of the siren, thats kinda stretching things looked to me as if the car was already stopped. Even if the EMS Operator did "flip" the bird it becomes a mute point get a "thicker skin" Officer ... good grief this is this a felony now. Just have to love the "Kaos" refers too, as if Police should be exempt from the Law of "common sense" The "ORDERS" disobeyed by the Paramedic are not contempt but an attempt to introduce rational thought process, initially the contact was very professional ... the LEO escalated the situation and even the Lawyer admits this. But whatever, the huge damage has been done across North America .. I was chatting with RCMP about 200 miles north of black fly infested Ft. McMurray where this situation is even on the FM radio ... quite the Black Eye .... the RCMP I spoke with suggest the LEO should plead guilty to the charge of "redneck hick" and be done with this !

I know the problem ... but one turn of the key and it becomes quite clear that it is running ... the sickening grinding is a dead give away. cheers

Yup ... politicians they never lie ... hell there is more "middle managers" now than believable .. swing a dead cat in a room in Red Deer and you will hit at lease 4 ! Just saying from what I have already observed and hear this "transition" its not looking very timely (ie current global economics) nor with any strong leadership / direction since the inception. Is the start of the "dummy down" back to protocol monkey treatment instead of guidelines or increase scope of practice to allow EMTs to WELD at will ... good grief no offence but flashboxes are way more cost effective, and less liabiliy risk besides just what the hell will this 12 lead at the EMT level assist with to improve the patient care .. give TNK ? I JUST LOVE the New Ambulance Services Act referring to protocols yet there are none ? HUH ? just under development ... but aint that putting the legislative cart before the horse ? Interesting oh yes. YES and NO ... Agreed most evidence based medicine on CPAP a substantial majority of cases that have "early" intervention with NIPPV is more cost effective and can reduce hospital admission times. Some things not NOT factored in with these studies for direct application to pre hospital care and outcomes. Lets be realistic .. Firstly f when the ER docs do the "flip consult to ICU" when NIPPV is ordered, its the real realm of Respirologists and then most patients then are managed in ICU post NIPPV implimentation, and an art line placed the vast majority of the research has been done IN hospitals with RRTs applying NIPPV. Now throw a ton of CPAP machines in trucks with "first timers" coaching, heck this could just turn around and slap EMS / AHC in the face HARD in just one lawsuit challenging the "education" of the provider .. just saying. and hell, I certianly hope they don't get the "vendors" to teach the "how to put on the mask" IMHO it is imperative that independent instructors teach and not a Paramedic or RN that are just book smart only or this experiment will most certainly FAIL. CPAP only is NOT the best way to go with NIPPV (non-invasive positive pressure ventilate) Bi level support is the way to go, IMHO ... sure hoping Ventmedic has comment as well. In fact CPAP will increase WOB (ie forced exhalation requires accessory muscle usage) this can most cases increase WOB... that said YES CPAP does increase Zone 2 where improvement in V/Q mismatch occurs, (improved oxygenation) and increases FRC but at a cost to WOB. If the patient ABGs suck and like hell your going to have Istat on every truck then this could delay definitive ALS intervention, I sure hope that someone has a good strong Respiratory background to advise when AHC do decide to purchase, teach and implement these Ventilators. They just may find out that without good education this trial may be a huge waste of money and cost lives having every Paramedic/ EMT putting any SOB patient on CPAP ... hmmm (in HDA PPV is written into EMT scope of practice a "a throw back to the Flynn and BVMS and is included PPVin the current scope of practice i.e. positive pressure ventilation. Thing is I have serious issue with is every EMT using CPAP or PEEP as this should be treated as a drug, as any thing that directly affects LV Preload, PVR, wedge pressures and/or LVF is not just a "lets put on O2 and start an IV" monkey protocol, no disrespect but way beyond the education of an EMT in this province. The success of BI LEVEL SUPPORT is quite dependant on the practitioner and extremely difficult to quantify! What if it Fails ? My observation is that those that were "delayed" with this bridge to ETI, this puts that patient at far higher morbidity mortality rates ... YES ... save one from "chewing on plastic" saves lots of ICU time BUT if the patient does fails "the experiment" then they are closer to circling the drain. That said of course Invasive Procedures have far more complications .. not rocket science there. I sure hope that when AHC purchase a devise that has more than just a CPAP mode ( ie multi usage) and longer term applications on Trucks ... then every ALS truck would be capable of doing Critical care transports ... ah improved diversity, what a concept <sarcasm> Holding ones breath = Hypoxia!

Try under careers for Oklahoma State troopers .... I think they be looking to fill a few NEW vacancies ? cheers

LITTLE GIRL ON A PLANE A stranger was seated next to a little girl on the airplane when the stranger turned to her and said, 'Let's talk. I've heard that flights go quicker if you strike up a conversation with your fellow passenger.' The little girl, who had just opened her book, closed it slowly and said to the stranger, 'What would you like to talk about?' 'Oh, I don't know,' said the stranger. 'How about nuclear power?' and he smiles. OK, ' she said. 'That could be an interesting topic. But let me ask you a question first. A horse, a cow and a deer all eat the same stuff - grass - . Yet a deer excretes little pellets, while a cow turns out a flat patty, and a horse produces clumps of dried grass. Why do you suppose that is?' The stranger, visibly surprised by the little girl's intelligence, thinks about it and says, 'Hmmm, I have no idea...' To which the little girl replies, 'Do you really feel qualified to discuss nuclear power when you don't know shit?

Quite Clear NOW ... a BS stop to start with, very poor scene control the LEO is lucky the family members did not restrain the officer or worse, the escalation of a nothing event was entirely due to the officers temper. Got to love how the officer puts the Medic under arrest and then informs the patient that she will get to hospital soon .. ah diplomacy at its finest or was that hypocrisy ? This officer should be charged bottom line make an example of him to train other LEOs that believe they are above the law themselves. I count ? infraction(s) 1- Obstruction of a public safety officer in his duty. 1- Unwarranted excessive speed, this officer is a hazard himself. 2- Failing to yield for a stop sign, no justification not an emergent stop to start with. 3- Blatant stoopidity ! (I don't think thats a charge but this LEO is guilty of making a mountain out of a molehill) 4- Sub therapeutic meds in the LEOs bloodstream. 5- Using a return from Iraq as an excuse ... bad, bad move. The Paramedic White was nothing less than a professional .... BRAVO!

Agreed and I can see it happening in AB as well with our Nazi Conservative Party bent on underfunding Health Care to make Private Health Care a thumbs up ... where did that Heritage trust fund in the billions go too I wonder ... sorry off topic. As William Wallace once said perhaps its time to pick a we fight ! So say hypothetically that is an entire region say like Kelowa for just an example, tender thier resignation en mass (2 weeks notice under law, sound fair and legal) and then Victoria or Campbell River to follow (in a week) it may bring the BC government to talk nice, but it would take Big Balls to go through with that ... like hell they could even find enough scabs and introducing a private for profit service would have things ballistic in a heartbeat in tree hugging BC. Heck maybe RNS and annoyed MDs could entertain supporting ? Just think out loud is all.

Amended to mosquito / black fly infested Northern Ontario ! Ok so why do they call it Bug Dope out east, is it the user or the bugs ?

Disagree with the writer of this news bulletin, but makes a good point in so far as how EMS workers have been getting shafted ! BING now this is the leverage needed to advance this is great timing, if CUPE members will dare make a statement at official swearing in affair then nothing to stop them them on a the world stage ps we are still a so called democracy. slave labour is extinct and Canukistan is known for its social service and health infrastructure and care for the pubic, no medical or private provider for Olympics would be a BLACK eye nationally. IMHO this will be settled well before that event occurs, I bet things will come to a "fair settlement" before the snow flies in Whistler. cheers

Well I am glad you posted this Dust ... the thought never even crossed my mind just how these hybrids could sneak up on you .. and puts a totally different spin on going for a evening stroll down a road. I really don't believe that these all electric things will take off ... eh .. Ok for summer here but I think batteries will seriously be affected @ -40 ... and freeze up rock stiff and not provide serious heat into the cab. cheers

I know this tread is about ankle fractures BUT I just can't help myself .. must be cause I have no life either ERDoc ! LOL. The next new standard "I believe" will be the REEL Splint for all long bone fractures, both Posterior and Anterior Traction applications (its super adjustable for everything down to a 4 year old and capabilities with adjustable "leeway" for knee involvement) ... as well as Extrication, instead of the old tie the legs together OFA thing out of a SUV or LAV ... it pays to go to EMStock and get free, very cool stuff ! Show your Medical Directors ... after they see it the REEL Splint they will throw the Sager away, I did, as once you do a comparison you will understand why every branch of US forces bought them. cheers

So did the trooper behave in this that in Iraq as well ?

Ok first off agreed ... bout the no life ... LOL. Getting in late on the thread, in my experience with ankle fracture's of this severity most cases were Trimalleolar in nature and included dislocation (s) ie those with vascular comprise Messing with that in the field is ill advised in my books without pictures and an orthopod looking over ones shoulder. One should have about 90 minutes before irreversible damage could be incurred if I remeber back to school days. cheers and lots of rx ... ouch.

Don't get me going on that topic ! As does Alberta Health Fixed Wing operations that have assisted in Northern BC for many, many years. Back on topic: The Canadian Health Care Act directs the provinces to follow 4 guidelines, after that it becomes the Provinces discretion to administer and deliver Heath care (oh and fund too) In Alberta we have 3 different forms of Ambulance care delivery and just recently, AHC took over and declared Ambulance operations as essential services in AB, prior to that the Municipalities funded Ambulance with three different concepts. 1-Private Service contracted. 2-Fire/ Integrated Services. 3- Hospital Based services. Although without secondary health care insurance one will pay BIG time ... unless it is an interhospital Transfer or Air Ambulance. This is why Alberta is watching so closely as to the developments west of us. cheers hope that helps .. I am sure that Ontario / Nova Scotia +++ EMT city members will step up to the plate regarding their flea bitten province (s) ... te he. Forwarded from PNN: Ah the plot is getting ... ahem Mr. Campbell want to throw another loonie into the crowd NOW? ps G. Campbell during his campaigning threw a loonie to an BC medic ... the Medic said hey thanks thats a half an hours pay ... I guess payback is a bitch eh Gordon? cheers

Yup ... But could you please repair your Avatar ... It doesn't seam to work? And thats what matters to me ! :lol: :lol: