Leen C

Right, and we hate them just as much as some of your fellow Americans... Maybe I should see my optometrist as well, because I have no problems at all driving at night, up to the moment where I get cars driving in the opposite direction (lol, that means most of the time... ) Especially one of those new BMW's or Mercedes / Audi type cars: they just completely blind me and after five minutes I can't even keep my eyes open anymore. Add some rain and I just stay home: the safer option... :wink: Yes, somehow getting into a car, to some people means: getting rid of all the manners they were ever taught. :? I know traffic can be frustrating and so can someone else on the road, but shouldn't we have enough self-control to master that and act responsible? About the 'If we wreck, it's his fault...' Have a friend who thinks that way, drives nowhere near as defensively as I do, speeding somewhat is not strange to her either... And by the time this guy threw his car in front of ours (she was driving), she didn't even think of braking, just forgot it, wasn't her reflex, because: well, he wasn't supposed to be there... :roll: Okay, he paid, but both cars were wrecked completely and we had to go to hospital. The guy in the other car didn't have a scratch on him (what did you expect... :? ) It was his fault, but in my opinion, she could have avoided the accident. (I actually had the time to say: what the **** is he doing?!! before we hit him. ) But in the end, no matter how careful you are, it only takes one crazy / drunk / ... driver and you in the wrong place at the wrong time to see these very sad scenarios happen... My condolences to the families involved!

Thank you for your replies. At least now he feels as though someone is backing him up and believes him. The hospital makes it sound almost as if he is imagining things... Greets, Leen

I asked him for a few more details, anything he could remember, as he wasn't exactly feeling great at the time... Turns out the central line wasn't subclavian, but jugular. Can they still have hit the brachial nerve from that location? And the one thing that puzzles me, is the problem with his tongue... Which kind of mistake can you make that would effect both the shoulder and tongue? One of his therapists outside hospital mentioned something about the eleventh cranial nerve (or should that rather be the twelfth = lingual motor nerve?) :? Apparently, they had problems with his central line right from the start. He was in recovery in agony. Nobody knew why, as he was being given quite a lot of morphine. It took them 4 hours to find out that the morphine wasn't going into the central line, but was just leaking into his pillow! :shock: That alone makes it possible for me to believe that they did make a serious mistake (or at least are clearly capable of making them ). Like I said, the only thing he wants is to find out what went wrong. He is already left in the dark about most of his treatment, seems to me like they don't even try to explain things to him... For someone who isn't even sure whether he will survive the entire ordeal, these kinds of 'little' extra problems make things even harder to deal with. He is just looking for someone who is honest to him for a change...

Shoot me as I know that this probably doesn't belong here, but I couldn't think of another place to post this... 8-[ A friend of mine was diagnosed with cancer a while back. For his last operation he was given a central line and since then he has had weakness in his shoulder and also tongue. The doctors don't explain a thing to him and say their is no explanation for his problem. He however remembers them having quite some difficulties with this central line. He asked among others to talk to the anesthetist, but the hospital keeps coming up with different excuses as to why the man isn't available... Does this sound like they are trying to cover up a mistake? :? Have any of you ever heard of such problems caused by the placement of a central line? My friend isn't looking to sue anyone (you wouldn't win anyway, here in Belgium ) , but he just wants them to at least admit to a mistake and have them explain what went wrong. Thanks a million if you have any information for us!!

The head straps seem to be a negative point to everybody. We threw them out right from the start, made our own straps and then got them approved by the FIA. Problem is that around here, nobody seems to know the OSS: I had never heard of it until I saw that website of the Australian GP. Odd, he? Those 'portly gents' you are talking about are everything but portly. That's the luck we've got! They usually weigh no more than 60 - 70 kilos max (130 - 150 pounds?) But their cars are just so tiny... About those crash tests: well, they don't seem to think they will ever crash, or else the FIA wouldn't have so much problems getting them to follow the rules concerning safety (how their cockpits should be designed for us to get them out safely after a crash for example, which straps should be easily accessible,...). We're not very loved at the circuit either. When they see us coming in the paddock or pits, they usually start running. LOL About being a high school teacher: Well, I guess our situation is not yet as bad as with you in the USA, no metal detectors yet, some teachers get extra insurance though... But, we are slowly getting there. Had a 13 y/o pupil in school this year who stabbed a fellow pupil in class. Luckily his victim defended himself and only injured his hand... But nevertheless: :? Needless to say the boy got expelled.

So let me get this straight: you are saying you find the Skedco OSS is better than the regular KED? :-s Or were you just pointing out the advantages of KED / OSS versus other methods? I read somewhere that the Australian extrication teams working on GP weekend use the OSS as well. In the end, it seems very similar to the KED: only the criss-crossed straps are different, but we see those in extractable seats too (for example: F1 or Renault World Series 3.5). Or are there other differences I missed? As to why so many here think the KED is useless: I don't understand!! We work in teams of 6 (5 + doctor) and we couldn't do our jobs if it weren't for the KED... :shock: We extricate drivers from sitting position in the car, directly coming out, face up, to a lying down position. So no pivoting legs outwards and then sliding backboard underneath as I read is done with regular cars. Or am I wrong and do you use other methods? We can simply not do this because the cage of the car is in the way (GT cars) or even better: you are talking formula cars and everything is in your way ( How some of these guys squeeze into their cars: it's a mystery to me). So I can not think of any other device that would make it possible for us to extricate a driver safely, without the risk of aggravating existing injuries... Of course, I understand you don't always have 5 people at hand to get a PT out of his car + those 5 have to be trained at doing so, because it does require some coordinated moves from all of them to get a PT out correctly (read: straight!). We practice once every month for about 2 hours, both on regular cars and formula cars (at least 10 extractions per session). Before major events, we increase up to 2 practice sessions a week. Our KED has probably been used 500 times at least... When you know how to work it, it becomes really easy, but I do understand you guys have so much equipment and so many techniques to get to know, that in the end it becomes too much. However, I find it a pity that 'regulations' require you to carry it (in many places anyway), but nobody seems to wonder whether the people in the field are also explained how to use it... #-o With a few tips / pointers and a demonstration, you might actually start to like the thing... :wink: + a tip: try playing the victim once and feel the difference between techniques for yourself. I think that is part of the job as well: knowing what your PT is going through. On top of that it is the best way to compare to other devices / methods...

Found what I was looking for... Info and instructions on: http://www.epandr.com/instruction/takeDown.htm Reactions from people who have actually worked with the KODE 2 are still welcome. :wink:

Hi, I'm new and the topic is old, so please have some patience and let me explain. :wink: My name is Leen and I'm Belgian. I am a member of the Belgian Medical Extrication Team and we work for the circuit of Spa-Francorchamps. In accordance to FIA protocol, we use the KED to extricate race-car drivers after heavy shunts (given their condition is stable of course) or if possible, we use the extractable seat for some Formula cars (F1 and World Series 3.5). I was actually hoping to find some information on the KODE II, which is the new type KED you are talking about. If the link works: it's the right one, the left one is a KODE I, which in essence is the same as the old KED if you ask me. I've been looking all over the Internet and managed to find some information. It appears that the KODE II has improved on 9 levels: 1 the white female buckles to receive the leg straps are placed lower, which should make it easier to access them in confined spaces. (like a Lamborghini ) 2 the leg straps are placed closer together. 3 the long chest straps are placed on the left side, so they don't get tangled up in the car somewhere whilst putting the KED in position. 4 there are now two separate panels for the chest straps, making the KED more adaptable to different types of patients + easier management in case of respiratory problems for example. 5 the flaps to secure the head are longer. 6 all straps are coated + 7 the KED is easier to keep clean. 8 the KODE II comes with extra straps (the extra buckles someone mentioned) to secure shoulders in place. --> AND HERE IS MY FIRST QUESTION: HOW DO THEY WORK? They said something about 'deacceleration' on one site and I don't have a clue what that has to do with it... 9 there are now also 'take down straps' --> SECOND QUESTION: ANOTHER THING THAT PUZZLES ME. So: my main question: Since this is an old post: Has somebody by now bought this 'new toy'? What is your experience? Is it easier in use? I realize that road-side treatment is not the same as circuit conditions, but everything is welcome, as I have not yet heard of anyone using it in Europe (at a track or otherwise). Sorry for any spelling or grammar mistakes: I speak Dutch, so