Dustdevil Posted October 24, 2007 Posted October 24, 2007 Not that some of you care but many of these places have few providers. Good! You're almost there! Now, if you can lose just a few more, they'll have no choice but to hire professionals! What a concept!
spenac Posted October 24, 2007 Posted October 24, 2007 Good! You're almost there! Now, if you can lose just a few more, they'll have no choice but to hire professionals! What a concept! Yes, 2 pages another topic goes paid vs volly. But this time it really backs the need for professional EMS so no one is asked to bring the kids.
Just Plain Ruff Posted October 24, 2007 Posted October 24, 2007 ok, let's discuss this a little further with a alternate issue. Let's say your service allows you to take a family member along to the hospital with you. Let's say that this is a 3 year old child and you are running hot to the hospital. Is there a place for this? What's the liability then? I remember a couple of calls I had. Both calls with different services. 1. elderly man taking care of his 5 year old grandson. He collapses and codes, there is no-one in the house to take care of the child. We need to get out of there and get him to the ER. Do we take the kid? 2. 30 year old mom, pregnant, has 2 children in the house. She seizes, status epilepticus, we are out in the boonies with just myself, my partner and the ambulance. Her one son called the ambulance. Sheriff is 30 mins out. Nearest neighbor is a 1/2 mile away and we don't know the number. We took the kids against policy of no riders. We got a stern talking to about breaking policy. Do these kids warrant an exception in having them in the rig. I know they are relatives of the patient but if we go down the road that many are taking then we would not have taken them? Thoughts?
spenac Posted October 24, 2007 Posted October 24, 2007 ok, let's discuss this a little further with a alternate issue. Let's say your service allows you to take a family member along to the hospital with you. Let's say that this is a 3 year old child and you are running hot to the hospital. Is there a place for this? What's the liability then? I remember a couple of calls I had. Both calls with different services. 1. elderly man taking care of his 5 year old grandson. He collapses and codes, there is no-one in the house to take care of the child. We need to get out of there and get him to the ER. Do we take the kid? 2. 30 year old mom, pregnant, has 2 children in the house. She seizes, status epilepticus, we are out in the boonies with just myself, my partner and the ambulance. Her one son called the ambulance. Sheriff is 30 mins out. Nearest neighbor is a 1/2 mile away and we don't know the number. We took the kids against policy of no riders. We got a stern talking to about breaking policy. Do these kids warrant an exception in having them in the rig. I know they are relatives of the patient but if we go down the road that many are taking then we would not have taken them? Thoughts? Really this would be from the discussion that this spun from, but in my opinion it would be wrong to leave patients children alone at the house. So you would have to take them with you. You would have to properly secure them. No lights and sirens. Drive obeying all laws. Children are a distraction and also are very well known for not staying buckled, do not put them at further risks. If possible meet LE or FF enroute to hospital and dump the kids on them so you can focus on patient care.
Eydawn Posted October 24, 2007 Posted October 24, 2007 Ok... as another ramification of this... how do you guys feel about 14-15 year old first responders riding as 3rd rider observers? My venture crew has been doing this with an agency in the Denver area for a long time. They all ride with one specific EMT (one of our crew's adult advisors), and their parents must sign liability forms. The riders themselves must sign several forms, including a confidentiality form. Still children... yes, at 15 you are still a child.. but barred from ever riding or experiencing the EMS world as an observer with parental permission? I don't think it is an awful idea, nor a wonderful idea. I liked it, and the smarter folks do much better with processing everything... Wendy CO EMT-B
EmergencyMedicalTigger Posted October 24, 2007 Posted October 24, 2007 I think that 14 or 15 is too young to be riding along in an ambulance. That's just a personal thing, of course. I wouldn't want my young teenager seeing some of the stuff I do. I would make my child wait until he was a little older. At least the agency is doing the proper thing by having all forms signed and hopefully the maturity level of the child is taken into consideration. Are these children who plan on getting certified or continuing to be active first responders or just wanting to participate b/c "blood and gore is cool?" The agency should definitely be considering some of this stuff on a case-by-case basis. The parents also really need to be aware of the possibilities of what their children are going to be exposed to, i.e., death, violence, other not nice stuff.
NYAEMT-I Posted October 24, 2007 Posted October 24, 2007 The agencies I belong to both have Junior membership that starts at age 16. There are a lot of forms to be signed by parents and the applicant along with the understanding that if they are told to stay back by any senior member they do so. They also know that if we get on a scene and determine that it isn't safe, then they are found a ride back and they don't go. They also have to maintain good grades and do well in school. They are also allowed only to go out on calls on certain days, and then only after school and up until 10 pm I believe. I have taken patients children with me before, never emergent, when no one has been there to take care of them. My problem is with taking your own kids on calls with you..
MAMed Posted October 24, 2007 Posted October 24, 2007 We initially started talking about bringing children along with their parents. Now the discussion is talking about organized riders/observers. In my opinion, the two are not the same. I have two little girls 5 and 3. I stated earlier that bringing something home to them is one of the only things that scare me. But if you have high school kids in an organization that works with the EMS agency and does structured ride alongs, then measures can be in place to eliminate many of the hazards. When I was in school, one of the services I did clinical at worked with the local school system with some sort of junior health care worker organization. The kids worked at hospitals and with the EMS agency. That sort of thing is a good idea in my opinion.
Eydawn Posted October 24, 2007 Posted October 24, 2007 So another question for debate here... is a 14 year old who comes to work with mom for "take your daughter/son to work day" somehow in more danger than the same 14 year old riding with someone else at a different agency? I assume that to bring one's offspring to a highly dangerous work environment, there's paperwork involved because agencies love CYA.... I agree that nobody under the age of 14 should be on an ambulance except as a patient or the rare "we can't leave them all alone" situation. But how is it different if you have a 14 year old kid who has been around EMS their entire life in the back of the rig, vs the brand new 14 year old first responder with no EMS experience whatsoever? Who is in more danger? Is it equivalent? How is it different? NOT advocating taking one's kids to work... just trying to see what people think. Wendy CO EMT-B
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