EMS Arrogance

[MAMed]

While reading posts in some of the threads, most recently “Kids Along for the Call”, I am once again reminded of something that I could not fathom as a Basic new to EMS and that I still find disheartening as a Paramedic. We in EMS are the red headed stepchildren of the medical community. We are Emergency Medical TECHNICHIANS, not clinicians who assess and treat in an acute setting. Rather we are considered on par with lab techs, who help the real care providers. Yet some of the most arrogant, egotistical people I have ever met are Paramedics.

I am a professional medic and would not ever volunteer simply because getting injured there would also put me out of my fulltime job, without even having the “luxury” of workman’s comp. But with that said, in the outlying areas of the counties I serve in, I still interact with volunteers. Yes, some of them, especially the young ones, are in it for lights and sirens. I also see that with a lot of new professional Basics. Both groups are usually gone within a year. But many volunteers see a need in their community and sacrifice of themselves to provide that service.

I hear people say that “we are talking about the real issues in EMS” in many places. But we’re really so busy infighting over things like Basic vs. Medic, Paid vs. Volly, Private vs. Public, etc. that we are incapable of discussing the real crux of the issue, our own impudence to affect change with in our profession.

Is it the volunteer’s fault that the local government won’t fund professional EMS services? Is it the fault of those of us in private services that our protocols sometimes seem geared more towards the service making money than pt care? I regularly see us attack each other when someone states that things are done in a certain way their service area, regardless of whether that person has any say in governing rules. That happens here at home as well as the forum.

In a striking counterpoint, here in the state of MS, the nurses association has so much political clout that large private hospitals think before crossing swords with them because they have banded to establish professional control. Yet the EMS advisory committee to the MS State Health Dept. is made of doctors, nurses, and the owner of the largest state based private EMS service. There is not one Paramedic or Basic with any say in how our profession is run! The EMS community here is so divided that no one can mount an effective campaign to change that. From seeing some of the statements others have posted about their areas, I will infer that this is more of a wide spread issue. I suggest rather than bantering back and forth over the petty issues, lets start trying to promote unity in the profession. If nurses can do it despite fractures in certification levels and work settings, then why can’t we?

I don’t have any answers. I simply see a problem. All I know to do is point it out until enough of us decide to work together to solve it. I’m aware that people can pick this apart if they want to and this might be nothing more than so much fluff talk; but if we are serious about improving EMS, we have to start at the base level by implementing power with numbers. Otherwise, we will stay just where we are and those with the last laugh will be the ones snickering at us “ambulance drivers.”

With all that said I’m off my soapbox. This is my opinion on the matter and if you disagree with me, I’m sorry.

[Dustdevil]

I understand and respect your point, and agree with most of it. However, it's not really anything we didn't already know. We know the field is fragmented. But accepting fragmentation is not the answer. As long as the field is fragmented, we are stuck right where we are now. The only way to fix that is to eliminate all but the professional fragment and let the rest die.

We are Emergency Medical TECHNICHIANS, not clinicians who assess and treat in an acute setting. Rather we are considered on par with lab techs, who help the real care providers.

lol, you need to spend a little more time around the hospital. Lab Techs are four-year degreed professionals who are considered subject matter experts and paid like it. We don't even come close to that.

I am a professional medic and would not ever volunteer simply because getting injured there would also put me out of my fulltime job, without even having the “luxury” of workman’s comp.

Plus 10. :thumbright:

Is it the volunteer’s fault that the local government won’t fund professional EMS services?

Absolutely! They, and they alone are to blame for it. If those people put half the effort into raising hell as they put into wanking, they'd get results from their local government.

There is not one Paramedic or Basic with any say in how our profession is run! The EMS community here is so divided that no one can mount an effective campaign to change that.

You're still better off than those states where the firemonkeys control it. Be careful what you wish for.

From seeing some of the statements others have posted about their areas, I will infer that this is more of a wide spread issue. I suggest rather than bantering back and forth over the petty issues, lets start trying to promote unity in the profession.

Again, there can be no unity when all the various groups have so little in common. The professionals, the firemonkeys, the volunteers, and the EMTs all have completely different agendas. There is absolutely no possible way to unite these groups. It can never happen. It's nothing but a pipe dream.

If nurses can do it despite fractures in certification levels and work settings, then why can’t we?

Nurses can't do it either. That's why there is a separate board and association for every level. But we have some advantages that the nurses do not have. First, we have no shortage. There are a lot more nursing jobs in this country than medic jobs. There are a lot more (percentage wise) people wanting to enter EMS. Our graduates are produced a lot faster. And our predominantly male workforce is more stable. With all those advantages, we should be light years beyond nursing. We aren't because everybody keeps trying to "unite" us. Until we start excluding all those that aren't here to be professionals, we will never have the singular focus to succeed like the nurses.

[Richard B the EMT]

Prior to Florence Nightingale, most nurses were women convicts working under a doctor's direct control.

Talking of convicts, the entire country of Australia was the outgrowth of British convict colonies like Botany Bay, that spread out over the continent. Seems some decided to start a country after their sentences were ended. Any Australian members of the city care to add on that? No offense meant here, currently alive members of that nation are not held responsible for actions taken by 3, 4 or more generations back, of course.

[Richard B the EMT]

Also, Fire Departments, Law Enforcement agencies, Doctors and professional Nurses have all been around now for 100 to 200 years (Doctors for way longer). EMS, such as we have today, is only around from roughly 1970. Red headed stepchild? More like the new kids on the block!

[JPINFV]

Prior to Florence Nightingale, most nurses were women convicts working under a doctor's direct control.

Talking of convicts, the entire country of Australia was the outgrowth of British convict colonies like Botany Bay, that spread out over the continent. Seems some decided to start a country after their sentences were ended. Any Australian members of the city care to add on that? No offense meant here, currently alive members of that nation are not held responsible for actions taken by 3, 4 or more generations back, of course.

Well, the United States was founded by a bunch of traitors. There comes a point in time when your roots bear no matter to your current position. That said, there are times when your roots bear utter importance to where you're at now also. The key is trying to decide which part of your heritage you keep and which you do away with.

[JakeEMTP]

I'm not sure if you can use the term arrogance. I think it is more confidence. I truly believe that one has to be a type A personality to be successful in EMS. Due to the fact that what we are presented with in terms of patients, we have to be confident in what we are doing is going to help with patient care or hinder it. I will concede, that with confidence comes a certain amount of arrogance until we go into a hospital setting and realise we don't know as much as we thought. That usually knocks people down a peg or two.

In regards to the forums, I don't think it is possible to have all these type A personalities in one place and not have a certain amount of conflict. That being said, most of the discussions provide realms of information and ideas and I would encourage you to participate more. It sounds as if you have a lot to offer and I for one look forward to your posts.

[BushyFromOz]

Prior to Florence Nightingale, most nurses were women convicts working under a doctor's direct control.

Talking of convicts, the entire country of Australia was the outgrowth of British convict colonies like Botany Bay, that spread out over the continent. Seems some decided to start a country after their sentences were ended. Any Australian members of the city care to add on

No offence taken, and its not that far from the truth really. In the early days it was basically convict settlement that started it off, but as more land was opened up with plenty of prison labour to build infrastructure, free settlers arrived to make a killing off livestock. The other great attraction here was the amount fo gold trhat was being discovered, which brought thousands of lower classes, hoping to strike it rich in the gold fields

[certguy]

Whether you're medic or EMT , paid or vollie , EMS or firemonkey , SAR or CERT or whatever we do have common ground in that we do what we do to save lives . That should be the thread that binds us all together . Sadly , egos and territorialism get in the way far too often . People think , " This is my portion of the pie , how dare anybody else try to do it ! " You're right , there are a LOT of arrogant attitudes out there . Being too arrogant is a curse . Your mistakes become everybody else's fault . It's part of a good EMS pro to be a little cocky , that's okay , but when you stop realizing that you're just as human as the next guy , and think you can do no wrong , this can cost you a pt. or harm to yourself or your partner . Attitudes should be checked at the door of your stations and we all need to work together to achieve our common goal .

[emtannie]

I'm not sure if you can use the term arrogance. I think it is more confidence.

I agree.... although there is a lot of arrogance out there, the truly arrogant without education and ability get weeded out quickly. Those who are arrogant and have the education and the ability, I don't have as much of a problem with, as long as they are willing to allow me to learn from them, rather than belittling me for things I don't yet know.

In our field, we have to be confident. We don't have a team of specialists, doctors, and nurses within arm's reach if things start to circle the drain. Lack of confidence = delays in care in our world. It does sometimes come across as arrogance.

EMS is still looked upon as the medical "outsider." I teach a number of nursing students, and some of them still think that our job is to just load a patient and get them to the hospital. They have no idea what interventions we can do, and what education and skills are required of us.

Unity in any profession is fragile at best, but a worthy goal to strive for. Although we do fight amongst ourselves and at times are our own worst enemy, we need to educate other medical fields on what we do. We need to educate the community on what we do. Once they realize that we are more than just "ambulance drivers," and we may just start getting the respect we seek from the rest of the medical community. The responsibility is ours - to get involved in committees, to educate others, and to work as a team within EMS and the medical community, without letting egos and personal agendas get in the way.

[GirlieMedic048]

I also have met a lot of arrogant EMS persons, of every level, however as mentioned in a previous post, if you have the skills and ability to back it up, rock on, if you don't knock it down a peg and grow and learn some more from the others around you who can make you a great medic/emt someday!

I would like to see us unite as much as we can! But you know what matters to me the most, anytime I have been on a scene with other companies, even those who are territorial with us normally, we all have each others back when it matters most!

We need to show the world that we are not "ambulance drivers" thrive for as much knowledge as you can pack in that brain, provide excellent care everytime, make the world stand up and take notice! You know in your heart what you are made of and what you can do, be proud of that and do your best everyday, thats all we can do!

Just my thought!