More Money for 2 Year Degree

[VentMedic]

http://www.ems1.com/products/consultingand...rticles/318000/

Tenn. area attracts more paramedics with higher pay scale

by Lauren Gregory

Chattanooga Times and Free Press

Copyright 2007 Chattanooga Times and Free Press

HAMILTON COUNTY, Tenn. — Though ambulance services in surrounding counties have complained of an acute shortage in paramedics, Hamilton County officials say local recruitment problems stem from the quality of applicants — not quantity.

"I think the numbers are there," said Ken Wilkerson, Hamilton County Emergency Medical Services chief. "We're blessed with the luxury here of a top-of-the-line pay scale, so we're able to attract employees from lesser-paying organizations."

Chief Wilkerson said there are only three openings in his staff of 105.

After a training program that generally takes six to 10 months, emergency medical technicians can begin work in Hamilton County with an annual salary of about $30,000. Paramedics who complete a more advanced, two-year training program begin at about $41,000 a year, Chief Wilkerson said.

Both job tracks feature benefit packages through the county, he said, and a total compensation package that is in line with other major cities in the region such as Atlanta, Nashville and Memphis.

But that means applicants may be attracted to work here for the paycheck rather than for the public service aspect of the job, Chief Wilkerson said.

"I think the basis for the career has changed," he said. "Nowadays, you become a paramedic because you get out after just two years of college and you start out at $41,000 ... I think this generation is just more me-minded."

Capt. Darlene Poole, EMS training supervisor, agreed.

"Since (the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001), it seems like we've had even more folks wanting to come out and be paramedics and EMTs," Capt. Poole said. "But they're not willing to work for it. It used to be that there was a real desire to help people. Now, it's just another job."

Capt. Poole says her agency receives large numbers of applicants from local programs at Chattanooga State Technical Community College and Cleveland State Community College, but that most of those people do not make it through pre-employment screenings involving practical skill and physical agility testing.

Those applicants tend to arrive straight out of school, without the real-world ambulance experience that generations past seemed to have, Capt. Poole said.

Monique High, a 35-year-old Chattanooga State student studying to be an EMT, said her program does not require any such experience. Ms. High, who has worked as a bus driver and corrections officer, said she views the classes as "just a transition" to a career in nursing.

Though she said she truly is interested in helping people through medicine, she sees classmates with more cynical views and agrees that younger people tend to look out for themselves above others.

"Any career that you go into, very few people do it because they have genuine care and concern," Ms. High said.

http://www.ems1.com/products/consultingand...rticles/318000/

[jsadin]

So now we get back to the argument of whether providers should or shouldn't have experience before getting their paramedic cert. Looks like we know Hamilton County's take on the situation.

And since when is $41K/yr some huge sum of money? What's a full time cop make with no college education? How about a truck driver with a CDL? I think these folks are way off base with what they think a paramedic is worth.

I also think they're waxing nostalgic, but maybe their memory isn't so good.

[VentMedic]

So now we get back to the argument of whether providers should or shouldn't have experience before getting their paramedic cert. Looks like we know Hamilton County's take on the situation.

And since when is $41K/yr some huge sum of money? What's a full time cop make with no college education? How about a truck driver with a CDL? I think these folks are way off base with what they think a paramedic is worth.

I also think they're waxing nostalgic, but maybe their memory isn't so good.

Experience as what? An EMT-B?

A good two year college program can organize their clinicals more effectively than a 90 day medic mart. They can also include a work internship prior to eligibility to setting for the boards like other professionals.

Actually, $41k is not a bad wage for that area. This is at the level of many RNs in the area.

And yes, cops can advance with education.

Actually this is one of the few times the paramedic is being recognized monetarily for having a degree except for the state of Oregon which requires the equivalent of 60 credit hours for licensure.

[ksmedic202]

I believe you need to have some experience with pre-hospital patient care before you go on to be a paramedic (or as Kansas calls them Mobile Intensive Care Technicians...anybody else call them that??) Personally, I have noticed that those who went staight from EMT-B to paramedic had a more difficult time becoming comfortable with a patient in the back of the rig. I honestly believe that it is because they don't have the experience working with patients in that setting. I see it everyday where I work. A ton of Nationally Registered EMT's who are absolutely lost on a call. I had the longest internship in my state at the time I went through at 720 hours with 3 years of being an EMT for a small service. Those of us that had this previous experience had a much easier time adapting to the application of our paramedic knowledge. Clinicals and internship is the time to begin using this new information in a practical setting/situations. Not the time for starting from square one.

[tskstorm]

The money really doesn't sound all that great, a basic with the FDNY gets "After 5 Years $39,179" Not including night time differential, meal allowance, and other benefits. Mind you you get all this for 120 hour course, not two years of Paramedic school, So the sum of money doesn't sound great to me. As it was said plenty of other jobs pay just as well with just as little to no education. In todays day and age I look at 40K y/r to be just above minimum wage, anyone who would put two years of school and 10K-12K of money for education should want more and for what we do, deserve more(for the most part.)

[jsadin]

Vent, I never said a cop couldn't advance with an education...I'm simply stating that they can make a good buck without a college degree. Anyone from Mass read the stories of the state PO's who were making $200K/yr+ in OT/detail work?

From the Boston Globe March 11, 2007

Last year, the 176 troopers assigned to the turnpike earned an average of $155,700 and the 144 troopers assigned to Logan made an average of $138,300.

In regards to experience, I agree that a good college program should be able to get their students some decent experience through clinicals. Unfortunately, that's not always the case.

[VentMedic]

Vent, I never said a cop couldn't advance with an education...I'm simply stating that they can make a good buck without a college degree. Anyone from Mass read the stories of the state PO's who were making $200K/yr+ in OT/detail work?

From the Boston Globe March 11, 2007

In regards to experience, I agree that a good college program should be able to get their students some decent experience through clinicals. Unfortunately, that's not always the case.

OT is a different story. I can make that also with OT. I, myself ,have posted some amazing OT salaries from OT for FF and EMT-P in San Francisco as well as California's Sheriff's and C.O who can get well over $200k/yr. I could definitely pull in that OT salary in MA as an RRT. Of course, my degrees help put me to a higher pay class where ever I go. As just a Florida Paramedic, no, I am not going to make 6 digits unless I live on the helicopter even with 30 years of experience. With my RRT to supplement, yes, I can pull it off.

Our 2 year EMS programs offer 5 semesters of clinicals for Paramedic after the EMT-B. We are still exploring the option of an internship post grad.

[ERDoc]

The money really doesn't sound all that great, a basic with the FDNY gets "After 5 Years $39,179" Not including night time differential, meal allowance, and other benefits. Mind you you get all this for 120 hour course, not two years of Paramedic school, So the sum of money doesn't sound great to me. As it was said plenty of other jobs pay just as well with just as little to no education. In todays day and age I look at 40K y/r to be just above minimum wage, anyone who would put two years of school and 10K-12K of money for education should want more and for what we do, deserve more(for the most part.)

$41K may not sound like much, but you are seeing it from a NYC standpoint. You're lucky if you can afford to rent a studio apt for $41K in NYC. You'd be able to buy a house in Tenn on that salary. There is a huge difference in the cost of living. If you use the CNN cost of living comparision calculator you will see. In order to have the same standard of living in Manhattan as you would making $41K in Chatanooga, you would need to make over $90. In other words, making $41K in Tenn is like making $90+ in Manhattan. To look at the reverse, making $39k in Manhattan is like making $17k in Tenn. So really, it is not that bad of a salary.

I've asked this question before, but why should someone be an EMT before becoming a medic? I didn't become a nurse or a PA before becoming a doctor. This is where making it a standard ciriculum designed by a governing board (similar to ACEP, ACOG, ACS or any odf the other governing bodies in medicine) and requiring it to be a college level degree would be a great idea. Set it as a 2 or 4 year program. After that there should be a year long initernship (similar to going through a residency). Make everyone a paramedic and do away with the EMT level altogether (I'll duck now as some people begin to throw heavy objects at my head).

[Ridryder 911]

I agree Doc. It is always those that do NOT have the education that attempts to justify themselves. Again, anyone with real world experience realizes that cost of living versus salary should always be the first thing to consider.

$41K is upper middle income in my area. The general salary for RN's is about that and yes, like any other job can make more in O.T., but really what difference does that matter?

Don't like the poor income and not being recognized as a professional, then do something about it! Go to school, get a degree, change the regulations of EMS and demand more money, until then you are lucky that you get what you receive!

R/r 911

[tskstorm]

$41K may not sound like much, but you are seeing it from a NYC standpoint. You're lucky if you can afford to rent a studio apt for $41K in NYC. You'd be able to buy a house in Tenn on that salary. There is a huge difference in the cost of living. If you use the CNN cost of living comparision calculator you will see. In order to have the same standard of living in Manhattan as you would making $41K in Chatanooga, you would need to make over $90. In other words, making $41K in Tenn is like making $90+ in Manhattan. To look at the reverse, making $39k in Manhattan is like making $17k in Tenn. So really, it is not that bad of a salary.

I've asked this question before, but why should someone be an EMT before becoming a medic? I didn't become a nurse or a PA before becoming a doctor. This is where making it a standard ciriculum designed by a governing board (similar to ACEP, ACOG, ACS or any odf the other governing bodies in medicine) and requiring it to be a college level degree would be a great idea. Set it as a 2 or 4 year program. After that there should be a year long initernship (similar to going through a residency). Make everyone a paramedic and do away with the EMT level altogether (I'll duck now as some people begin to throw heavy objects at my head).

Salary in Chattanooga TN:

$41,000

Comparable salary in New York (Queens) NY:

$64,016.01

I don't know anyone in queens who makes 65K who can buy a house without assistance from wife or girlfriend making similar wage. Houses in the ghetto are 750K here, decent house between 1-2 mil. Enough about cost of living though.

I don't necessarily think we should have to become basics before medics, but thats just how it is.