BLS 12 leads

[chevy]

[quote="BEorP

That is a valid point about the ACS part of the study not being completed yet. Wasn't it also OPALS who showed no benefit of ALS care for cardiac arrest outcomes or was that someone else?

[tniuqs]

Ohh, BCP, Basic Care Paramedic? ECP, Elevated Care Paramedic? TCP, Top Care Paramedic?

Well, thank god that we got semantics out of the way.

Umm not all, you forgot one P.L.S. ....... Primative Life Support !

The new catch phrase is, so easy a caveman can push "analyse"

dust:

That's sort of the point. Tossing 12-leads out there simply for diagnosing the occasional AMI, yet being wholly incapable of treating it, creates an illusion of progress when, in fact, you are ignoring the vast majority of ailments that afflict your population. And thus, addressing those other ailments would reduce mortality and mordity more significantly than those BLS 12-leads.

zactly !

nsmedic393 wrote:

Nobody is confusing anybody. When you call 911 with a medical emergency, a paramedic shows up at your door. What level of paramedic depends on the avalabilty or capabilities of the system. Either way its symantics...your system has its emts and our system has its primary care paramedics at the basic level...

I believe that our basics have earned the right to be called paramedics

I think we have to disagree on this on NS, without a standardization across the country we will never accomplish reciprocity .... this IS without a doublt the biggest first hurdle to overcome to advance PARAMEDICINE.

The public is under the false impression that they are recieving "Paramedical Care" when in fact they are NOT!

cheers

Now for the Ontario Math Part question ?

What is the difference in cost between a "Flash box" and a fully loaded 12 Lead ? (whatever flavor)

About 15 G perhaps ?

[JPINFV]

Umm not all, you forgot one P.L.S. ....... Primative Life Support !

The new catch phrase is, so easy a caveman can push "analyse"

How about Primary Medical Support?

[tniuqs]

First OPALs was Out of Hospital Cardiac arrest ONLY+ in urbal centers .... as we all know everyone lives in the cities ..... sheesh !

Again: NO the first OPALs study was "arrest" outcomes and as I have stated before this proved what we already know ..... the sooner the ALS intervention the better the outcomes, how much did THAT study cost to reinvent a wheel ?

REALLY ? I'm shocked ... ps thats sarcasm btw.

Anicdotal evidence.

GOOD, I think your worth it, so ask questions like why do ACPs in Ontario lack Paralytics, etomodate or Volume expanders .... what about the Hypertonic saline studies there Mr. Proffessor ?

ZACTLY ! No worms just Common Sence, just look to NS for the "in-clinic" positives too .... :~) as squint beats his drum.

But when the media is lead down the garden path from some MD. ps and working for MOH ..... when I saw the twisted public releases .... thank god for the therapeutic applications RUM !

[tniuqs]

How about Primary Medical Support?

I think that pnemonic is already taken ..... :shock:

But I am :oops: that I didnt think of that first :shock:

[JPINFV]

I think that pnemonic is already taken ..... :shock:

But I am :oops: that I didnt think of that first :shock:

There are plenty of mnemonics that get shared. PCR could be polymerase chain reaction or patient care report. BLS could be basic life support or Bureau of Labor Statistics. Why can't we have PMS also? 8)

[snakemedic]

I agree with you to some extent Dust, I think just throwing 'stuff' out to give the perception of more ability is misleading but it is also insulting. Your Bls today are the ALS of the future and I think we can all agree that the more knowledge base you have to draw on the better prepared you are to do your job well. I think the best service you could provide to your BLS is deeper knowledge base and then add the skills later.

[jwt]

"dean83: your avatar states you are from Alberta yet the title of PCP does not exist here and although the gap training "allows" for AB EMTs to "assist" with asa and nitro this currently falls under the legislation of the Health Disciplines Act, and under a little phrase called "local medical authority" LOTS of strictly BLS services do don't have that latitude, your suggesting that this is across the province and it just aint true, in that sense your blowing smoke and we have been waiting (some of us longer that others) to advance into the future with the Health Professions Act ... maybe then with just a FEW Medical Directors we CAN standardize care.

btw EMT does NOT = PCP ..... BC PCP does NOT = Ontario PCP ! PERIOD. "

In alberta emts can ADMINISTER ASA/NTG not assist, not all services have adopted this yet, but it is the governing bodies' stand, and why does EMT not equal PCP? last time i checked it did.

[BEorP]

Again: NO the first OPALs study was "arrest" outcomes and as I have stated before this proved what we already know ..... the sooner the ALS intervention the better the outcomes, how much did THAT study cost to reinvent a wheel ?

OPALS saying ALS interventions improve cardiac arrest outcomes? Hmmm... from their August 2004 Abstract:

From the rapid-defibrillation phase to the advanced-life-support phase, the rate of admission to a hospital increased significantly (10.9 percent vs. 14.6 percent, P<0.001), but the rate of survival to hospital discharge did not (5.0 percent vs. 5.1 percent, P=0.83). The multivariate odds ratio for survival after advanced life support was 1.1 (95 percent confidence interval, 0.8 to 1.5); after an arrest witnessed by a bystander, 4.4 (95 percent confidence interval, 3.1 to 6.4); after cardiopulmonary resuscitation administered by a bystander, 3.7 (95 percent confidence interval, 2.5 to 5.4); and after rapid defibrillation, 3.4 (95 percent confidence interval, 1.4 to 8.4). There was no improvement in the rate of survival with the use of advanced life support in any subgroup.

[BEorP]

REALLY ? I'm shocked ... ps thats sarcasm btw.

That is the type of attitude that holds back EMS. Things that "make sense" aren't always the best treatment. I always like to use the example of an immediate analysis for cardiac arrest patients. That just made sense, didn't it? Time to shock is what matters, right? It did make sense. And it was wrong.

And FYI there is actually an HS study going on here right now.