EMS Cadets/Explorers?

[Asysin2leads]

I'm not sure why this has to be reiterated time and time again. Being against explorers and cadets isn't about bad apples or good apples or anything of the sort. The problem is that while I have no problem seeing it from your point of view, you just can't see it from mine. I have spent a great deal of my life to be able to do what I do, and work very hard to make a living doing it.

The problem is that people assume everybody who pops out of the ambulance is all on the same level. Now, that might be a cool little thrill that people think you're a paramedic, but for us paramedics, it maks us look no better than high school kids.

What really burns my candle is when you guys take something some of the older and experienced members say and rather than stopping and considering it, you just put your own teenage spin on it. "Oh, its just a few bad apples," "Oh, its because you're arrogant," etc etc, maybe, just maybe, if someone who has been doing this job says "Hey, an ambulance is no place for a teenager to be," they say it because they are basing it on their own experiences and knowledge.

The other day I did a call on a 20 month old with 2nd degree burns to 30% of his body after an accident with a pot of macaroni, and to be perfectly honest, I had to do some serious lower lip chewing on that call to keep my own emotions at bay. Now, I ask you, are those the calls that teenage cadets really belong on? Are those the images you really want to have ingrained in your memory while you're still forming your own personality and growing? I say no way jose.

[Asysin2leads]

I'm not sure why this has to be reiterated time and time again. Being against explorers and cadets isn't about bad apples or good apples or anything of the sort. The problem is that while I have no problem seeing it from your point of view, you just can't see it from mine. I have spent a great deal of my life to be able to do what I do, and work very hard to make a living doing it.

The problem is that people assume everybody who pops out of the ambulance is all on the same level. Now, that might be a cool little thrill that people think you're a paramedic, but for us paramedics, it maks us look no better than high school kids.

What really burns my candle is when you guys take something some of the older and experienced members say and rather than stopping and considering it, you just put your own teenage spin on it. "Oh, its just a few bad apples," "Oh, its because you're arrogant," etc etc, maybe, just maybe, if someone who has been doing this job says "Hey, an ambulance is no place for a teenager to be," they say it because they are basing it on their own experiences and knowledge.

The other day I did a call on a 20 month old with 2nd degree burns to 30% of his body after an accident with a pot of macaroni, and to be perfectly honest, I had to do some serious lower lip chewing on that call to keep my own emotions at bay. Now, I ask you, are those the calls that teenage cadets really belong on? Are those the images you really want to have ingrained in your memory while you're still forming your own personality and growing? I say no way jose.

[Michael]

The problem is that while I have no problem seeing it from your point of view, you just can't see it from mine.

That's what I was trying to say by posting this video. Thank you, Asysin2, for going through some of the details.

[nsmedic393]

Well, i agree that there are some people my age who I would NEVER, EVER, want near me, much less a patient, but there are some of us who are mature enough to handle the responsibility, stress and demands which is why we are doing these ride-alongs/events. It one of those "one bad apples spoils the entire bunch" type of situations.

That is the point. When considering minors on an ambulance the rules need to be made for the majority not the minority and the majority of teenagers don't belong anywhere near a sick patient.

[AnthonyM83]

That is the point. When considering minors on an ambulance the rules need to be made for the majority not the minority and the majority of teenagers don't belong anywhere near a sick patient.

I think that's probably where people disagree. Not the rest of the stuff, rather on this point right here.

I think I was just swayed by Asysin, in that it could be a protecting our youth thing, since they are technically minors. Just how we protect them (in theory) from rated R movies, drinking, sex with adults, driving past curfew in some states, etc.

[Michael]

It's primarily a protecting-our-patients-including-their-perceptions thing, secondarily a protecting-the-provider-and-his-assets thing, tertiarily a protecting-our-youth thing.

[bfettig3290]

Ok, i get the whole "this post has been...." but i just want to thank Asysin2leads for responding with a complete, non self-fish remark. Until his reply, the only EMT/Para view i saw was that of how minors are irresponsible, etc. I admit i never stepped in your shoes....i can't imagine how damaging it is to a patient to see a 16 year old alond with a 21/22/23+ jump out of an ambulance, and think they both have the same training.

The problem is that people assume everybody who pops out of the ambulance is all on the same level. Now, that might be a cool little thrill that people think you're a paramedic, but for us paramedics, it maks us look no better than high school kids.

Believe me, i don't think its cool that some PT's think I may be a paramedic. I know I am no where near trained to be even an EMT, and don't ever want someone to think that I can provide that level of care. With the EMT-B/I/P's that I have worked with, they respect my view on that. However, there is one kid in my class who is cocky, who does think he knows everything, and it has intereferred with PT care. He even refused to give control to the EMT-B who responded, believeing that sicne he was first on the scene, he can be in control. Those types of students scare the $** out of me, simply because I know that it has, and will again, interfere with the care of a patient. I realize after what Asysin2leads said, that can be really degrade the PT's view and trust of the ACTUAL EMT-/I/B/P who is responding.

As for protecting us, that may more or less be subjective. I know there are some very mature people in my class that can handle it, and know how to talk about it in way that it doesn't become traumatizing. Then again, most people in my class would not be able to handle it in a mature matter. It should be up to the emt's on the rig to decide if they need to make the student stay behind at the station because the incident may be very traumatizing. That "solution" is not the best, as it is a very grey area, and depends on many different factors.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyways, to get back on the topic of how were only sharing ideas on what cadets are like in a different country... The one program I am in in the US, OEC, we meet 5x a week for 90 minutes. To get the most basic certification, we are rigorusly tested, to a point of where our insturctors believe we could provide the best care possible. For us, simply "good enough" is not enough. During our CPR testing, our isntructors changed the scenario on us 3-4-5 times to see if we really do know what to do.

Our group also does volunteer medical work. We worked the post-race areas at the Twin Cities marathon in MN. We worked our butts off, as there was a sheer number of patients (100+) who all had some form of heat exhaustion/stroke. We were with teams of three, most of us first responders, with 3 EMT-B's on stand-by in case there was something we couldn't handle. Being out in the field, we treated as neccesary and arranged transport to the medical tent located at the finish line.

I hear that there is an well known cadet program in Austraila called St. Johns Ambulance ( i think). That seems like an interesting cadet program....

[Nate]

I think it depends on the service as to what age is to young.

If your service is in a rough area...it might be best to not allow riders.

We allow high school seniors in HOSA or EMT class that are 17+, and only during the day.

Nate

[1aCe3]

doesnt Toronto (Canada) have a good St. John's program? I think they involve cadets, first responders and actual BLS and ALS crews.

[Timmy]

I hear that there is an well known cadet program in Austraila called St. Johns Ambulance ( i think). That seems like an interesting cadet program....

Yeh we have an awesome program! If you read my post on page 1 then there’s a brief outline of what our cadet program involves.