EMT/PCP/EMT-A/Paramedic/ACP whats in a name? [Small Rant]

[Mastabattas]

I disagree. :wink:

I personally prefer the idea of a longer PCP program... however I have been employed in a capacity which allowed me the perk of reviewing curriculum from schools in various provinces (BC, AB, Sask, Ont, NS) and there are other criteria which would weigh into the equation.

To compare strictly hours... between schools and provinces which subscribe to very different ideologies of how to deliver the program as well as provincial requirements which vary... is a lot like comparing the fuel efficiency of multiple vehicles without taking into account the type of fuel being used or the type of vehicles being compared.

[Mastabattas]

I'm not sure why the names are all different. I would love to see something that is seen across the nation as opposed to provincially.

I nearly fell out of my chair when I realized that you posted something I could agree with... but fortunately for me I regained my composure as I continued to read.

...when talking anyone else who doesnt have a basic understanding of healthcare I'm an advanced care paramedic to prevent having to explain and going into details

This comment causes me great concern.

First of all... we have a responsibility to educate the general public whenever an opportunity arises. I too tire of having to explain all the differences between levels in Alberta as well as how that compares across Canada... but I'm always glad that I do because the reaction I get from the public is consistently amazement that things are so complicated when other areas of health care are not and I know I have just gained another voting citizens support for anything we may fight for in the future. I consider it education... as a practitioner it is my responsibility to do so ACCURATELY.

Secondly... at the very least I will say 'I am an EMT or PRIMARY care paramedic'. If I was in a rush I might say just EMT. NEVER EVER would I claim to be a higher level of practitioner then I really am because it is a lie. And as such, because you never know what might happen, or who might be around to hear... it would destroy my credibility.

If the person is unfamiliar with health care... the importance of providing true and accurate information is even MORE crucial then with another health care professional.

[mobey]

Masta

I totally agree about comparing apples to oranges. The point I was attempting to make was not EMS education comparisons within Canada, it was EMT vs PCP only. If you browse the first post you will see I am just supporting the idea of AB EMT's calling themselves PCP's. Bleep stated that AB is rejecting the PCP title because EMT's in AB are so far advanced compared to the rest of Canada that they will not degrade themselves to the lowly PCP name. That is the reason for the comparison, to drive the point home that really they are not! Not that they are inferior to the rest of Canada, but they certaintly are not superior ( this excludes you of course ).

If anything we should have some Ontario PCP's pissed off that provinces like Sask call themselves PCP's with less than half the education.

[Mastabattas]

LOL Mobey no worries... I totally like the thread topic... we're cool

As for the terms used... I've always been under the impression that the use of PCP based on NOCPs was to set a standard across Canada as a minimum and that it was the goal to unify the title (and practice) of practitioners across the country. And as such, that Alberta has been the biggest stick in the mud preventing any further progress being made for standardizing practice. (Again... just the impression I've been given).

I am proud to carry either title. I can just as easily "boast" about my Alberta scope practice by saying I'm an Alberta PCP if that's what's so important.

I'd like to see less confusion in the eyes of the public. And I welcome any changes which would facilitate that. My job is the same regardless of my title (EMT or PCP) but it's easier to prove that if we're using the same language. A mechanic is still a mechanic even if he's called an automotive repair technician.

[agm]

Interesting topic, I have read several times in this tread that it seems to be a "shot" at paramedics who are trained in the USA. Can someone please share with me why this is the case? Some specific items in regards to education would be great. I am Canadian but am trained in the US, and am NREMT-P licensed. I am fairly new to the forum so please bare with me. I understand that your education is determined by not only your school, but also the student themselves. So why is it that I see many times that the Paramedics in Canada see themselves as superior to US Paramedics, looking forward to some replies.

[mobey]

Interesting topic, I have read several times in this tread that it seems to be a "shot" at paramedics who are trained in the USA. Can someone please share with me why this is the case? Some specific items in regards to education would be great. I am Canadian but am trained in the US, and am NREMT-P licensed. I am fairly new to the forum so please bare with me. I understand that your education is determined by not only your school, but also the student themselves. So why is it that I see many times that the Paramedics in Canada see themselves as superior to US Paramedics, looking forward to some replies.

We are debating BLS. When we say "Paramedics" we are discussing Canadian Primary care Paramedics aka EMT's

I have no opinion on Canada's Advanced Care Paramedic vs US EMT-P. I have never been led to believe one is superior to the other.

But a Canadian PCP is far advanced over an EMT-B in the US

[Dustdevil]

Of course, quality variations among individual students is completely irrelevant. You have to compare apples to apples, which means objective curricular criteria. If you look at the above numbers, that's really all you need to know about why Canadian education is far superior to U.S. education. Anybody who doesn't understand that never took math very seriously, which doesn't surprise me in the American education system.

Medics are cranked out in less than six months in much of the U.S., with absolutely no scientific educational foundation established before they start jabbing each other with needles. Simply put, U.S. paramedic education is nothing more than a long advanced first aid course, with an emphasis on maximum skills with bare minimum knowledge or understanding. It's not education. It's training.

Conversely, I suspect a very large percentage of ten-year U.S. paramedics would flunk out of Ontario PCP school in the first semester, because it is not run like a technical first aid course. It is presented as a comprehensive, professional medical education, establishing a firm foundation of knowledge and understanding, instead of just teaching a bunch of skills without the information it takes to intelligently use them.

If you got a wonderful, two to four year college education with your paramedic school, and are the best medic since Roy DeSoto, great. But don't try to BS us with the claim that this is typical of U.S. EMS training, because it is not. You would be the exception to the rule. In Canadia, they did it right. Instead of trying to piece-mail an improved system together, utilising the lowest common denominator, they built a professional system from the foundation up, without compromise to keep the volunteer hobbyists and the firemonkeys happy. The U.S. will never even get close to that kind of professionalism until they too can tell the special interests to F-off.

[agm]

My question specifically was what would the Canadian Medics be taught that the US medics would be lacking in? Again, being program specific, our program was rooted in pathophys, and the process, not learning how to pass a test or a practical station. Looking at the numbers, our program would rival any of the programs, except for the Ontario program at 1600 hrs didactic, curious as to the required clinical hrs? Again, just trying to figure out what kind of knowledge difference between the Medics. Some examples would be great. Also, were would you find a ALS paramedic program that takes 6 months? Me thinks that is a tad to short...

[Dustdevil]

Also, were would you find a ALS paramedic program that takes 6 months? Me thinks that is a tad to short...

Any major city with fire based EMS. Some of the high quality (sarcasm) programmes (or the ones with stupider firemonkeys who take longer to learn) have the LONG, 9 month programmes. Of course, that is 6 to 9 months including EMT-B. The ninety-day paramedic courses scattered across the country have to turn away applicants by the hundreds because everybody wants a shortcut. I can guarantee you that, if Spenac actually opened up his "two week paramedic school," he could charge $30k for it and still have more students than he could handle.

The amount of A&P and pathophys in the average U.S. programme is not even remotely comparable to a Canadian programme. The difference is the depth. As an RN-Paramedic with a BS in Biology and thirty five years in the field, I am still blown away by the intensity of the education the Canadians get. I have Canadian friends who have shared their assignments with me in both PCP and ACP school, and they stumped me on a regular basis. I'm afraid I can't give you specifics, because I haven't taken the curriculum myself. But the numbers speak for themselves. Even the best AAS paramedic programmes I've seen here simply can't hold a candle.

And really, it's not even so much the differences in content that are the biggest factors. It's a completely different educational structure, and that structure is what makes the real difference. Instead of focusing on a bunch of skills, and then throwing in just enough medical knowledge to understand them, the Canadians start from the very beginning by establishing a thorough and solid scientific foundation in A&P and pathyphys, assuring that you understand the problems before they start giving you solutions. Two years of that kind of education before you start practising what we Americans call "ALS". It shouldn't take a genius to figure out what difference that makes in the competency of the practitioners.

[agm]

What I think would be great is if there was a canadian medic to bounce some of these questions off of. As for the science, if you learn the kidneys for example down to and including GFR, tubules and such, is this the kind of depth you are talking about, or is there something else, also, the underlying reason I am asking these questions is because I want to make sure that if my knowledge base isn't adequate I want to make sure it is.