EMT/PCP/EMT-A/Paramedic/ACP whats in a name? [Small Rant]

[northernmedic]

Agm: I have some resources which I will try and either post or PM to you.

[agm]

Thanks, do you practice in the BC area?

[fit4duty]

The amount of A&P and pathophys in the average U.S. programme is not even remotely comparable to a Canadian programme.......And really, it's not even so much the differences in content that are the biggest factors. It's a completely different educational structure, and that structure is what makes the real difference. Instead of focusing on a bunch of skills, and then throwing in just enough medical knowledge to understand them, the Canadians start from the very beginning by establishing a thorough and solid scientific foundation in A&P and pathyphys, assuring that you understand the problems before they start giving you solutions. Two years of that kind of education before you start practising what we Americans call "ALS". It shouldn't take a genius to figure out what difference that makes in the competency of the practitioners.

Well Stated!!!!!! What many here in the States can seem to understand is that in order to elevate the the status (and subsequently pay) of this thing we do it all begins with a formalized, standardized education process. Not training, EDUCATION. It is refreshing to see a system that is not overly influenced and corrupted by other outside competing interests (fire) that need to keep EMS as "technical" work to maintain control of its direction.

[bleep]

As far as I am concerned when talking to other health care professionals I am an EMT, anyone else who doesnt have a basic understanding of healthcare I'm an advanced care paramedic to prevent having to explain and going into details. They hear what they want to hear and thats it, I'm not any different than anyone else.

This statement is absolutely appalling to me, and disrespects every practitioner out there. Furthermore, by doing this you are opening yourself up to legal problems, not to mention the possibility of being reported to ACoP for misrepresenting yourself. As Heidi says, educating the public with CORRECT information is the best route to take. All you're doing is perpetuating ignorance.

[bleep]

Okay, math is far from my strong suit. And I acknowledge that there are vast differences between individual schools. However, my simple math says that -- unless you are packing two years worth of education into one year, without cutting any corners -- there is not the slightest chance that AB EMT knowledge is anywhere close to "superior" to the ON PCP. All things being equal, hour for hour, the AB programme is inferior, regardless of how many neato "skills" you spend ten minutes teaching your EMTs.

Now, once we hit the advanced level, you can start to compare favourably to Ontario, on a school-by-school basis. But that's a whole nother story.

Totally agree. Which is why I pointed out that I'm talking about the BASIC requirements of a PCP program - which absolutely does NOT require 2 years to teach. Kudos to Ontario for clearly going above and beyond those "basic" requirements. However, by doing so, they have created the same problem that Alberta has - there is no way to have national reciprocity if the programs aren't the same. This topic has been debated hotly at PAC and ACoP educational meetings. The provinces just don't compare equally.

PAC set the minimum standard for PCP curriculum and CMA accredits the programs accordingly. What I've been saying all along is that the BASE, ABSOLUTE MINIMUM standard for PCP is inferior to what AB teaches, which is WHY they refuse to change to the PCP title. Clearly, the absolute minimum is also inferior to what Ontario teaches (although, I have to interject, length of program does NOT equal quality... having personally done a few 4 year degrees myself, I could have easily completed them in less than 2 if someone had bothered to trim the fat, but oh no, they don't make money that way).

YES, Ab is being a "stick in the mud" regarding the title, but they recognize the problem that was created with the implementation of the NOCP. Not only do they recognize it, it has been brought up nationally and the issue clearly has merit, as a committee was formed to work on addressing the concerns. Even at the PAC AGM, it was pointed out that while there has been some standardization, changes still need to be made. I quote:

"The National Occupational Competency Profile (NOCP) for paramedicine review is well under way.... It is important to remember that the NOCP was a consensus document and it was necessary to have full spectrum stakeholder buy in. The gold standard was Alberta and their competency. The Alberta standard has managed to remain intact while other provinces have come up from what they had to the NOCP and others have slid down. Five years later we have had some stabilization and reexamining paramedic practice in Canada and new best practice and evidence based medicine there will be some changes coming to the revised NOCP." - President's Report - PAC 2007 AGM.

The NOCP - and thus the title PCP - as a national title is not quite working yet. AB will tell you that (and clearly has, by their reluctance to change the title), and I'm willing to bet that ONT will tell you that too.

The good news is - PAC is aware that there are issues, and are working on it. The bad news is, change is extremely slow. It takes approximately 2 years to have any changes to the NOCP themselves approved and adjusted. Therefore - don't expect the title of EMT in AB to change anytime soon.

[threebl9mice]

as I stuff my wagon wheel (canadian ho ho) in my mouth and glance at my radio LED still flashing green... no call yet dammit and its 2:30am....I ponder the its not what I nessicarly do but what I know to do argument....and I wonder at what a NewYork Medic is doing? what about my counterpart in Iraq....damn... 5 flairs ..SH*T is hitting the fan again ...wheres my aid bag??

...we qualify our titles by the diploma or degree that we own.... what about work load titles? you can not tell me that an ontario city PCP has the same workload/ title as the alberta country medic with one call per week....

[mobey]

...we qualify our titles by the diploma or degree that we own.... what about work load titles? you can not tell me that an ontario city PCP has the same workload/ title as the alberta country medic with one call per week....

How do you explain call-volume affecting your title? Are you suggesting those with a higher call volume be labeled with a superior title?

[JPINFV]

...we qualify our titles by the diploma or degree that we own.... what about work load titles? you can not tell me that an ontario city PCP has the same workload/ title as the alberta country medic with one call per week....

So is the emergency medical physician from Podunk Hospital ER any better or worse than the emergency medical physician from St. Community Hospital ER?

[threebl9mice]

So is the emergency medical physician from Podunk Hospital ER any better or worse than the emergency medical physician from St. Community Hospital ER?

mmm geee wouldn't that be a great debate topic?.... maybe I just posted that to get in to the chat room...... I seem to remember some thing about this topic... in my text book...lets see if I can remember... unconscious incompetent, conscious incompetent, conscious competent,unconscious competent..am I right on this? I'll have to go back to the books....I hope some day to be unconscious competent. Which medic would you trust your little johnny to? Some one who has 1 call per week and drives every other call.... or some one who gets 20 calls per shift? ahh well they all graduated with the same test right? well mabe not in saskatoon....(jokes) I get to chat now...got enough posts....he he

[mobey]

mmm geee wouldn't that be a great debate topic?.... maybe I just posted that to get in to the chat room...... I seem to remember some thing about this topic... in my text book...lets see if I can remember... unconscious incompetent, conscious incompetent, conscious competent,unconscious competent..am I right on this? I'll have to go back to the books....I hope some day to be unconscious competent. Which medic would you trust your little johnny to? Some one who has 1 call per week and drives every other call.... or some one who gets 20 calls per shift? ahh well they all graduated with the same test right? well mabe not in saskatoon....(jokes) I get to chat now...got enough posts....he he

WOW I have a hard time following you here, Did you answer the question??

I can answer yours... You bring up Saskatoon, I know a Paramedic there I would not let give care to my cat!.. and I hate my cat!

I also know a Paramedic 2 hours south of there working in a system that does 80-100 calls a year, he never attends unless it is an ALS call. I would choose him over many many urban paramedics to treat my 5 year old daughter anyday. Call volume has nothing to do with whether your "Good" or not!