Firemonkey Madness

[Dustdevil]

ROFL!!! Check this out!

I LOVE it! A couple thousand firemonkey wannabes, who took up space in an EMT class somewhere -- which I hope cost them thousands of dollars -- now get booted back down to the bottom of the list to take their chances with everybody else. As it should be.

Inside Bay Area Staff

Inside Bay Area (California)

2007 Nov 27

OAKLAND, Calif.-- The Oakland (Calif.) Fire Department distributed hundreds of firefighter training applications Monday, and will likely do so again today, after waiving a requirement that applicants be certified as emergency medical technicians.

The department hopes that dropping the EMT requirement will boost the number of homegrown sons and daughters working in the fire department.

“The general goal is to reach applicants who reflect the city of Oakland,” said Oakland fire Lt. David Brue. “This is one strategy to do that.”

Applications for fire training will be available again from 9 a.m. to 8 p.m. today at 150 Frank H. Ogawa Plaza.

Applications must be completed and returned, to the same address, by Dec. 1. The first 1,000 applications submitted will be considered.

Following that, a multiple-choice test will be administered Dec. 8. Oral interviews will be conducted from Jan. 28 to Feb. 1, and physical agility tests will be taken from Feb. 25 to Feb. 29.

Brue said the department will then form a list of people who might be invited to participate in a fire academy.

EMT training will be offered as part of the fire training for those who are not certified.

Brue said the department, roughly 450-strong, is trying to fill another 20 firefighting positions.

For more information, visit http://www.oaklandnet.com/oakweb/fire .

• So... I don't really get it. They're not getting enough applicants from within their city? You've got to be kidding me! Is any city in Kalifornia really getting too few applications? Who knows? Maybe they're just tired of all these 3 week EMTs, who don't know dick, driving up from SoCal, and are going to assure all their n00bs get good training? I doubt it, but it's a thought.

[JPINFV]

Well, before I moved I was constantly seeing billboards for LAFD recruitment. What concerns me the most is the entire "oh, we want a fire department that reflects the diversity of Oakland BS." That almost rates up there with the bitching about the all white Jena 6 jury (it's all white because none of the 50 blacks that were summoned decided to show up). Does a person's skin color really matter when everyone's all decked out in turn out gear with SCBA on?

Furthermore, if there's anything that's going to tell me to avoid a company or area is the fact that they're willing to COMPROMISE THEIR REQUIREMENTS TO GET THERE! You know, sure, drop the EMT requirement if the fire department was deciding to get out of the medical business. They're not doing that. What's next, "Well, the person wasn't quite able to make the physical fitness cutout, but since they've got the correct skin color we'll just let it slide." Personally, if I was an Oakland fire fighter I'd be looking to transfer to another city ASAP.

Oh, if you're paying more than a few hundred dollars for an few hundred hour EMT-Basic class, you'd better be getting some personal equipment for that or some actual college classes (classes!=credit. I'm thinking A/P, microbio, etc included with the EMT-B course). If you aren't then there's either a monopoly (business opportunity) or getting scammed. I still can't believe that there's a course near my undergrad that costs $600 when mine was $120, including books (I shouldn't have bought that worthless workbook).

[speedygodzilla]

Proud to vote:

Only hire applicants who are already EMTs.

[brentoli]

I am looking at this from a slightly different angle...

If we are advocating removing the EMT from EMS. And turning it into a straight up advanced first aid certification, what is the problem. I wouldn't mind the firemen having training on stabilizing injuries. It makes them a little more useful when they are needed.

I DO NOT want to make this an B vs. P debate. And understand this is all theroectical and it wouldn't happen because of what we say anyway. But... thoughts?

[Lone Star]

What I got from that blurb, was that the Oakland Fire Department is dropping the requirement that the applicants already be EMT licensed to apply. That way they can get the bodies in the academy. It didn't say anything about removing the EMS portion from their scope of service.

They did mention that the EMT education would be part of the academy ... so whats the big deal here?

For all the EMTs (regardless of their license level) that I hear bitching about how fire departments and EMS shouldn't share the same house, let alone be 'associated', what's all the gnashing of teeth about?

[Medic26]

Proud to vote:

Only hire applicants who are already EMTs.

[AnthonyM83]

I think it's a good idea for FF's to be EMT trained...even in non fire based EMS communities, the public sees FF's as people who could help them in severe medical emergencies. It's good to know about cspine, advanced first aid stuff, and recognizing some medical emergencies.

BUT I don't like that so many people who have no interest in EMS or medicine take up space EMT classes. I imagine they also lower the standards, NOT BECAUSE THEY'RE DUMB, but simply because so many don't give a flip about it and want the easy cert. Then in some areas they actually start taking up the EMT JOBS until they get hired with a FD.

[Dustdevil]

Exactly, Anthony. :thumbright:

I'm all for FDs having first responder roles and training. I just don't like the concept of them cheapening EMT training by using it as a stepping stone to the fire service. Completion of a friggin 3 week EMT course doesn't tell you anything positive about an applicant. It would mean absolutely nothing to me as an employer. I would be much more inclined to hire my employees based upon more established and objective criteria than that. That's why I am happy to see Oakland's stance change. However, I find it kind of ironic that Oakland is doing this, not so they can be more objective, but so they can lower their standards.

But yeah, I love seeing people who put all their eggs in the firemonkey basket with thousands of dollars worth of EMT and medic training end up with nothing to show for it.

[Dustdevil]

This story just gets better and better!

Kamika Dunlap

Inside Bay Area (California)

2007 Dec 2

OAKLAND, Calif. -- After camping in Frank H. Ogawa Plaza for two days, many cold and disgruntled firefighter applicants Saturday started circulating a petition calling for a fresh hiring process.

They said the Oakland Fire Department’s system for scouting new recruits is unfair, as some people had been handpicked over others.

In addition, they said, the unofficial waiting lines that formed in the plaza created intense competition and overall confusion.

“A lot of people were sneaking in when others were sleeping,” said Noe Leon, 22, of Fremont. He slept overnight in the plaza with six friends. “At 4 a.m., everyone got an urge to rush to the front.”

Some people tried to defend their space with yellow caution tape, he added.

The department, which is trying to add another 20 firefighting positions to its current 450, recently waived its emergency medical technician requirement and said it would process only the first 1,000 applicants.

“We are moving forward with the process,” Oakland fire Lt. David Brue said.

The deadline to submit applications was noon Saturday.

A multiple-choice test will be administered next Saturday to the remaining candidates. Oral interviews will be conducted Jan. 28 to Feb. 1, and physical agility tests will be given

Feb. 25-29.

More than 8,000 firefighter-training applications were distributed.

Evan Rogers, 23, of San Leandro signed the petition being circulated Saturday because he said he was frustrated by the lack of organization.

“People started mosh pitting,” he said. “This is not a rock concert.”

Applicants’ patience began to wear thin when some people were handpicked from the crowd. Many male applicants said minority female applicants were favored.

Other applicants became upset after standing in a line for hours only to find out that theirs was not an official line.

A recording from a loudspeaker in the plaza Friday night urged applicants to go home and return at 5 a.m. Saturday, but no one wanted to lose their place in line, Leon said.

According to Brue, no “official lines” were established until between 6 and 7 a.m. Saturday.

In addition, the Fire Department, Police Department and Personnel Department helped secure and manage five entry points, allowing up to 20 applicants at a time into the building on a rotational basis.

“The closest 20 to 30 people at those entry points were being picked,” Brue said.

Some of the hopefuls camping in the plaza said they were afraid to talk to the media for fear of hurting their chances with the department during the application process.

“It’s not fair,” said one applicant, who preferred to be unnamed. “All you have to be is 18 and breathing to apply, and this process is not giving the public the best.”

• Maybe we should take up a collection to send them some cheese to go with their whine. :-({|=

[NREMT-Basic]

I think it's a good idea for FF's to be EMT trained...even in non fire based EMS communities, the public sees FF's as people who could help them in severe medical emergencies. It's good to know about cspine, advanced first aid stuff, and recognizing some medical emergencies.

BUT I don't like that so many people who have no interest in EMS or medicine take up space EMT classes. I imagine they also lower the standards, NOT BECAUSE THEY'RE DUMB, but simply because so many don't give a flip about it and want the easy cert. Then in some areas they actually start taking up the EMT JOBS until they get hired with a FD.

I agree. Right now we have one hospital out of three in my city offering paramedic training and out of the 30 spots in the class, the first 25 automatically go to the city's fire fighters because they have one year from their date of hire to become EMT-Ps and that hospital (being the corporate megalith that it is) has a contract with the FD that their FFs will only be trained by this hospital. And while I agree that its a good thing for FFs to have a general concept of first aide when they roll up, I dont know why EMS and fire are inextricably linked as one anymore than EMS and LE are. Especially when it seems like many fire departments do not do their own transporting and have to wait for transporting EMS to arrive anyway